Jewish Scene
Man in bag: I was following rabbi's orders
Itzchak Tessler
Published: 15.04.13, 15:24
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61. To all of you
YS ,   Montreal, QC   (04.15.13)
who have made fun: the laws of "tuma" and "tahara" (ritual impurity and purity) are some of the most complex in the entire Talmud. The flying over a cemetery issue was a veritable problem some 8 years ago when it was discovered that all flights out of BG Airport flew over the Holon cemetery. To facilitate for the Cohanim who wanted to fly, a request was made through the Transportation Ministry to alter the flight path by several degrees to alleviate the problem. Thankfully, the authorities took the request seriously (Israel is still the Jewish State!) and planned the necessary changes. During the interim, which took a few months, Cohanim who flew out of Israel and wanted to adhere to halacha did exactly same thing. It was only necessary to be covered for a few minutes after take-off. That some of Ynet's readers are unfamiliar with such laws is understandable; they are unknown to most. But that they choose to denigrate the Torah because of their ignorance is a shame for anyone who calls himself a Jew. (FYI- the basics of why a thin plastic bag works to separate from the other "tuma" (impurity rising from the Jewish graves) is because it is considered a separate, independent domain from the aircraft).
62. Zulu
Neill ,   Cape Town, SA   (04.15.13)
How can the Rabbi be so disrespectful of Zulus. What does he think? Probably every Zulu adult has a cell phone and certainly understands how it works. The President of South Africa is a Zulu. He often uses a telephone. I wonder if he would ever think of wrapping himself in a bag!!!
63. Way too close to the Taliban
Jon ,   New York, NY   (04.15.13)
As an Orthodox Jew, this scares the life out of me. I am sure his intentions were good but showing you have no ability to ignore a ridiculous psak shows how Radical Judaism is way too close to Radical Islam. Can anyone tell me some lunatic Islamic nut wouldn't do the same thing... And his Imam wouldn't use the same childish logic... Really Sad and Scary!!!
64. misled by rabbi
Wade ,   NYC USA   (04.15.13)
Is being above a cemetery more potent than being an equal distance horizontally? Kohanim are not prohibited from walking along the periphery of a cemetery. This individual did what the rav suggested. The rav caused this ridiculous embarrassment.
65. following orders
FF ,   Brazil   (04.15.13)
to follow orders of a stupid, makes you more stupid .That's the problem with haredim they don't think for themselves they need someone to tell them what to do. It's not judaism, it's crazyness.
66. #51-You misread or didn't understand...
Koose E Mack ,   NY NY   (04.15.13)
The bag was not to protect him from the "impurity of women". Kohanim, The Priests, are not allowed to be in contact with tumah of the dead. Hence, they are not supposed to fly over cemeteries or enter places where there are corpses.
67. A man of intelligence and religion yet he brings dishonour
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (04.15.13)
on his religion. He should have known the reaction to something like this. Rather miss the flight and take another, than do something that will bring so much attention to discredit Judaism and Haredim.
68. What's the matter with people?
Harry ,   Sweden   (04.15.13)
Almost all talkbacks are ridiculing the poor guy. Is he doing anybody any harm? At least he is not throwing bombs, or rocks on cars driving on Shabat, like some real nuts.
69. If this incident was related only to flying over a cemetery
William ,   Israel   (04.15.13)
then it must have been a short time within the entire duration of the flight. Where was the cemetery, in Israel or NYC? And with the speed of the plan at 550 mph on average, the means the duration of this "isolated vessel" should be about 1.2 seconds over the cemetery, right? The article makes it seem like it was for the whole flight, but that makes no sense if we take the Rabbi's explanation. Anyone know more on this story? For those decrying this act and calling it a cult, I think the Rabbi did a good job in answering it. Many people blindly accept the actions of Muslims and Christians, but decry Jews for things they don't understand. An obvious intellectual flaw, especially among secular Jews.
70. Sad to see the so many of us have Inferiority complex
nafas   (04.15.13)
So what, one person behaved in strange way. The are endless number woman walking around the world wrapped in Abaya. But in contrary to us other people are proud of their religion.. We... we are ashamed and trying to blend and not to attract any attention... If only we could be invisible... Don't get me wrong, my first reaction was the same, those haridim are just nuts, but reading all the comments made me rethink my attitude.
71. feel sorry
anton ,   istanbul   (04.15.13)
for the woman to bagged up mans right she seems fraustrated from the pic it seems he put himself in garbage bag, the worst part those garbage bags are recycled liked the curiosity of man behind thou
72. The plastic bag on the man
Sagi   (04.15.13)
is made from polyethelyne, this is a product which is both porous and air permeable. The last laugh is on him.
73. # 69 William
Sagi   (04.15.13)
Read my # 55.
74. He's already in a container with a lid: the airplane & door.
Dirk ,   L.A., USA   (04.16.13)
It's like one of those riddles in which you have to use critical thinking and come up with a solution. Think outside the box.
75. Israel is a madhouse
ex oleh chadash ,   Brazil   (04.16.13)
People become more and more crazy every day ba'aretz. Baruch Ha-Shem I left Israel forever. You are going to be a Islamic Republic like Iran very soon, maybe worst than it.
76. Time to take out the trash.
SG ,   Teaneck   (04.16.13)
77. Searching for Looplholes
Paul ,   Lexington, KY   (04.16.13)
Regardless of belief, I don't think this can be seen as anything but an attempt to manipulate the situation, in a deliberate attempt to break the religious law. I'ts tax day here in the US. And I see great similarity between this and "business purpose doctrine" and "substance over form." This person clearly had the choice to avoid the flight. However, they chose in advance, to do something, bag themselves, for no other reason, than to avoid the law. Which I believe makes the action of no value, except the purpose of skirting the law, not adhering to it. It's sad that people would disrespect their religion in such a way. No, not sad, evil in my opinion. A deliberate attempt to break the law and get away with it. He should have changed flights.
78. The Condom of Purity.
Ron ,   Melbourne, Australia   (04.16.13)
none of those who reacted is at his intellectual level ... - You are right. None of us have fallen so low. It least I am happy to see that the Torah is upgraded to include such new Material as Plastic to combat impurity. Perhaps it will usher the way for a new appreciation of condoms.
79. a plain, unudaltarated
les ,   canada   (04.16.13)
IDIOT!
80. This is the real body bag
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (04.16.13)
81. "Treat Judaism with a minimum of respect"
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (04.16.13)
And place an idiot in his place.
82. If i wereEgypt or Jordan,i would cut
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (04.16.13)
the military budget,those idiots don't pose any danger.
83. #54, You are a zombie forever, not worth a Woman or a Wall.
Michael ,   California, USA   (04.16.13)
84. 39
zionist forever   (04.16.13)
The flight had been redirected and he discovered he would be flying over cemetery
85. 55 Sagi - ynet doesn't allow me to reply either
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (04.16.13)
and I've been trying to bring to people's attention that the Halakhah in Talmud IS, unalterably, that a family genealogy -- including Kohanim -- that is once uncertain remains uncertain forever. Both Kohanim and Beit David genealogies were ALL destroyed by the Romans (except for two). So-called Kohanim and Beit David today are merely quasi-kohanim and quasi-Beit David -- like a menorah in one's home, a nice mnemonic but having NO Bibical authenticity. So these are non-genuine claimants behaving according to medieval European (non-Biblical) standards having NO basis in Torah (either the claim to be a Kohein OR the claim of a dry cleaning bag while flying) -- making it even a LOT more ridiculous and primitive than it appears. Rabbis today are INCREASINGLY anti-Biblical. I'm hoping the recent turn in political leaders signals a significant change. But the entrenched medieval Europeanism isn't being dislodged yet.
86. man in the bag
Zvika ,   Jerusalem   (04.16.13)
he only had to be in the bag for a few minutes at most, not for the entire flight. Big deal.
87. Na'im: Torah secludes women during their monthly periods
Adam Yerushalmi   (04.16.13)
and whenever they have any additional discharges apart from urine and feces, and 40 or 80 days after giving birth, all of which cause impurity to women, which means the Torah expects Israelites not to touch women during their impurity periods. Obviously you don't know much about the Torah. None of this is said in defense of the man in the plastic bag
88. # 85 Paqid
Sagi   (04.16.13)
I was wondering if this particular "Kohen" will be holding court on the Temple Mount replete with honed knife in hand and dressed in a white robe in preparation for the sacrificial bounty being marched up from the coastal plain. Just wondering to what extant this can be taken. I do believe that they are capable of such actions and I am not attempting to be sarcastic or facetious.
89. #49...zombie rays
Steve   (04.16.13)
You are correct, I have absolutely zero respect for those who live their lives according to ancient beliefs. Where pray tell in the Torah is there any comparison whatsoever of aluminum or titanium alloys and plastics which are all products of the last century. If alloys can withstand a cabin pressurized for eight thousand ft. while the a/c is flying at over 30,000feet I trust it is by definition hermetically sealed, as opposed to a loosely tied plastic bag. Please do not use scraps of material science to justify incoherent ramblings from a distant past. Now run along, isn't it about time to sacrifice your poodle.
90. 88 Sagi - my impression is, sadly, that is their myopic hope
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (04.16.13)
We were weaned from dependence on a physical building, and confusing the symbols of "magic blood" sacrifices (more characteristic of Christianity, BTW) with absolute justice (judgment and penalties for wrongdoing), for a reason: so that we're no longer vulnerable to "our Judaism" being destroyed by men like idols of other religions can be destroyed. I look forward to a Beit Tephilah for all Torah-compatible kindreds on Har ha-Bayit (not beside it like the Kotel) as described in Tanakh. But that requires tolerance of interpretations that aren't certain in Tanakh instead of medieval European additions to Torah prohibited in Devarim 13.1 et al. But tolerance where Torah is uncertain is not yet the order of the day among the rabbis who prefer to behave as empire builders and tyrants, placing themselves beside the Almighty (cf. Dan. 7.25). Have a happy Yom ha-Atzmaut. I'm in mourning for the state of our people.
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