Opinion
Not from our pockets
Hanoch Daum
Published: 28.04.13, 20:29
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1. Excellent article
Joe ,   Israel   (04.28.13)
2. G-D decides how many Kids to have, not State.
Mo ,   London   (04.28.13)
G-D decides how many Kids to have, not State. The same G-D who gave you the OK to say that Israel belongs to the Jews.
3. To No 2
Jim Tel-Aviv   (04.28.13)
Yes, but does the G-d decide how much many the State has to pay for children and how much of it is chipped off our taxes? Have as many as you like... but pay for that out of your own pocket, as we - the seculars - do. It's so silly to hide behind the G-dly rhetoric, don't get the Deity involved here.
4. What about demographics?
Bob ,   Jerusalem   (04.28.13)
Better haredim then our dear cousins. And with tel aviv's birthrate at 1.7 and a dog, the dati & haredim are the only hope that the're be an israel in fifty years.
5. You really think Chareidim Have Kids because of the money?
Nachum ,   Bet Shemesh   (04.28.13)
You obviously have no idea why Chareidim have so many children. Why do Chareidim in the USA and the UK also have so many children? It has nothing to do with money and by cutting the children's stipend in half will not stop one Charedi from having more kids. Instead you are just harming the children. You are trying to force Chareidim from having so many children so that in 20 years they won't be the majority, but it won't work. This is coming from a place of hate.
6. # 4 there won't be an Israel in 50 years
Amir   (04.28.13)
even before that, and the reason can be summed up in one word, HAREDIM. I am third generation Israeli, my four children are fourth generation and my fourteen grandchildren are fifth generation. We all have departed and all live in civilized countries where people respect each other and the law and we don't pay taxes that go to fund leeches and lazy bums who have fifteen children and instead of working have their nose stuck in book all day long. Israel was created built and defended by people like myself and my family. It is being destroyed by HAREDIM.
7. 2. Mo,G-D decides how many kids to have,
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (04.28.13)
not state,than let G-D feed them,not state,Did G-D give the OK to Turkey,to be Turkey,France,France,England,England,Why do Jews have to show documentation of ownership ?.
8. Stritly speaking, you're out of your league
Avouskila ,   South America   (04.28.13)
Hold it: I speak as a secular....My vision of the right and priveleges is not in your horizon...whatever understanding you might have in social science within the confines of a democratic environment; you have yet to demonstrate. While you might have some beef with life style of others among them religious that have brought the threat of empty streets in Israel of Jews, non observants and others as a remote possibility. while on the other hands Europe is undergoing a complete demographic catastrophic situation in about 25 years You want to maintain your life style, which is OK, the State has many ways to level the playing fields, for everyone. You have a problem with people refusing to enlist: are they only beyond the limit of Gedera-Hedera confines?! Surely not. And have you looked into statistic lately of the high percentage of those willing to serve being asked to go home. Technology has done marvel to humanity to the extent that in some cases, it dislodge them from very manual and tedious work; however in your case, it might nrever been around. Cease you ideology and try to allow other Israeli citezens to do the same. Or maybe, you might have a different agenda...such as the Arab sector! Think hard if you are capable. I just wonder!
9. # 2...He was only your G-d..not mine or Palestinains...
Edithann ,   USA   (04.28.13)
What G-d would give you children you can't feed and must rob from others... That's some nasty G-d..or one that's not too bright! Or maybe one that hates you too? TATA
10. family planning
jon bergman ,   jerusalem israel   (04.28.13)
it all sounds great. but you clearly are not an observant jew, and dont know halacha. 1. it is forbidden to waste seed. 2. therfore birth control is forbidden 3. a husband and wife cant just stop having marital relations in order to satisfy the government, and they will continue to have kids even without being supported. only under extreme circumstances, i.e. there is a concern of a baby being born with a birth defect, will birth control be permissable. maybe. 4. dont give chareidim money. but then, either the economy will go bad and the government will have less money, or chareidim will somehow survive, or get money through other legitimate means. 5. if you do what is right, g-d wont punish you, you wont lose out. the government will not lose by giving out money to chareidim.
11. I have 5 children and plan on having more
talmudic sage ,   TA   (04.28.13)
I won't do it if the nation will not give to me what is my birthright. That is my monthly stipend for studying the Torah and Talmud. Only through this work and worship will Israel be blessed. My children and the ones I hope HaShem will give to me need to eat. The rich must help us. They have plenty.
12. 3 Jim If you pay peanuts you get..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (04.28.13)
monkeys. If you do not sponsor Jewish birth growth you will have in Israel an Arab majority, Think of the consequences.
13. So what then, let them starve?
Akiva   (04.28.13)
This article is nothing but vapid rhetoric and comes across as totally divorced from reality. What Israel are YOU living in? Today, the hareidim are the only thing preventing an inevitable arab majority. The hareidim are the future of the state and their opinions matter. Why do you seek to sideline opinions and views you do not share? Is this democracy? You fear that which is different from you and desperately try to have it fit into the small little box you call normalcy. I've heard the argument far too many times. Hareidim are parasites. Hareidim steal our taxes. It's nonsense. The hareidi community receives a far smaller stipend per head of population than any other sector in Israel. The hareidi community has far more working adults and serving adults than Israeli arabs and many other sectors too. It's all typical leftist, anti-religion propaganda and you (and YNet) buy into it hook line and sinker. The sad and tough reality still exists though. What will you do about the hareidim? They are Israel. Today you try and block them in the Knesset, tomorrow they overrule every single thing you did. They will forge the future of our country, will you stand beside them and work with them, differences aside? Or will you continue to push them away and alienate them? The choice is yours.
14. Thank you Hanoch...!
Cohen,Israel   (04.28.13)
You hinted what others wont say- Future Israel will be extremly over populated, the economy will collapse and the air pollution will be just like in Bejing. To no. 4- The Arabs in Israel are actually reducing their birth rate, and once the state will stop finance 8-10c kids per family, it will effect the Arabs just as well. You actually call for an over-populated state, most of it with huge poor families. The state of Israel as we know it will collpase and become a Jewish version of Gaza.
15. child payments
ken ,   monsey ny   (04.28.13)
Funny how this and other secular writers can choose to praise policies of European countries but deride them when speaking about Haredim. Guess what? ALL European socialist countries make child support payments. ALL European socialist countries support Haredi educational systems teaching exactly what they do in Israel. When there was a military draft in the U.S. Haredi rabbinical students were exempt. When the common denominator is demonizing the Haredim, no rational dialogue is welcome!
16. Real issues, please
Adam Eliyahu   (04.28.13)
It is not news that many secular Israelis hate the Charedim. Yqair Lapid cashed in on it but, even worse, is using it to keep the public eye bklind to his real agenda. He is pro-rich, enacting policies that widen the already enoprmous gap between the elite and the average (Rikki Cohen) Israelis. He stated that the average Israeli earns 20,000 NIS. In fact, the figure is closer to 9,000. He is open about beiung prejudiced against observant Jews. That is pretty bad, but at least he is open about it. His elitist economic policies are insidious an hidden. And that scares me.
17. 4 Bob.if the haredim don't place their shoulder
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (04.28.13)
under the yoke,helping the seculars to carry the state,there will be no state in 50 years,the haredim need to study,math,chemistry,science,languages,i am pretty sure,no matter what the rabbis and politicians say,God will not object.
18. Not from our pockets
George Weiss ,   Teaneck, USA   (04.28.13)
What about the susidies payed to the Arabs of israel to have as many children as they wish. And, unlike the heredi children, the Arab children will be enemies of the State. Why should jews pay for rhei enemies to have more children.
19. Boring, recycled garbage!!
Zevy ,   USA   (04.29.13)
Bottom line - no chareidim, no continuity of Judaism. History has repeatedly proven it.
20. make them pay for their own litter of kids
Haim ,   ta   (04.29.13)
Not at my exspense, cut their benefits and they will some get a job the lazy bums
21. To no.1
Sam ,   Belgium   (04.29.13)
How much money does the state pay to bring here new immegrents..... Millions every yearvatvte expense of te tax payer and even years later still received sad help...so plz stop bs around !!!!
22. To the idiot who wrote #6
Ira G. ,   Ra'anana   (04.28.13)
I am first generation Israeli and I live here as do my five children and my grandchildren. I voted for Lapid and feel it was the best vote I ever cast, but I would rather live here with Haredim than be associated with scum yordeem like you that tell us we are uncivilized. You putz, we are among the most civilized people in the world. We will solve our problems like all families do, including all the animosity along the way. People like you have no business making comments about our society. YOU r no longer part of the equation. You are more akin to droppings (little turds) that a nation plops out along the way. You are worse than the anti-Israel loonies that write in. Just shut up and go to the mall for some Chinese treats. Shame on you for making me write this response to you. You must be so happy to have 5 generations of civilized zeros.
23. To Amir, #6
(04.29.13)
I doubt if your future descendants will even be Jewish.
24. True Chelmer.
michael ,   israel   (04.29.13)
Israel needs a large Jewish birthrate other wise Israel will be an arab state! No child benefits for arabs.
25. core subjects, indeed
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (04.29.13)
The core subjects of the yeshiva produce a sharper mind that the technical skills that a college education give. I know, I have a college degree and learn in a yeshiva. Just the opposite, it should be required for ignorant people to learn what is Torah Judaism before they try to destroy it. That would give them a core foundation for understanding the obvious BS being throw around to disguise the covert antisemitism of the left.
26. Haredim aren't the only ones having large families
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (04.29.13)
So too are many Arab communities in Israel, and none more than the Bedouin in the south, where polygamy is still practiced and the population is exploding. And yes, the government pays for that in many ways - in child support, in medical costs, and in land grabs.
27. Statistics
Robert Haymond ,   Tekoa, Israel   (04.29.13)
I thought I would bring some actual statistics into this discussion in order to help people take a rational approach to peoples' benefits who have large families. As of June, 2011, with respect to Child Allowances and Bituach Leumi, the following holds in terms of monthly stipends: 1) one child-169NIS; 2) two children-431NIS; 3) each additional child, 284NIS if born before 1 June 2003 and 252NIS after that date. Let's look at what a family of two actually receives: 431NIS. A family of five, all children born after 1 June 2003 receives 1,187NIS and, if three of the children are born before that date, 1,283NIS. Let's look at a family of ten children, all of whom are born after 1 June 2003, 2,447NIS and, if eight of the children are born before that date, 2,703NIS. For those of you who reside in Israel and actually have children, while Child Allowances are nice to receive, it is not a truley significant help to a family's finances what with the costs of food, clothing, diapers, school equipment and recreation, etc. Of course the Charedim probably share a good deal more than most families and such communal endeavors would cut costs of raising a family still further but, still, anyone visiting such Charedi established locations as MeaShearim will observe that most of the people are anything but wealthy, mostly poor. There are exceptions, of course, such as the Belz diamond merchants and some of the Charedi dignataries. As well, probably large families get a real price savings on joining a medical facilitator such as Maccabee. Nonetheless, for the average Charedi, there is little enough money to go around. Finally, I am not writing this commentary in order to advocate for allowing the Charedim to continue to gain benefits, any benefits at all, from the state without putting in a major effort to work and earn a living like the rest of the population, both religious and secular. It's just that the actual benefits received by the majority of Charedim may not be anywhere near as much as most people seem to think.
28. #5, Nachum, it's not hate
Vered, Israel   (04.29.13)
I can explain this because I also believe the Hareidim should pay for themselves, but I do not hate them. What you are saying is that if the taxpayers don't fund my children, they hate me. You mention Hareidim in the US and UK also having many children. In your view, does the fact that the US and UK taxpayers don't fund their children mean that the taxpayers hate them? I dont think so. In fact, that is a perfect example. Why not make it like the US and UK, where everybody has as many children has he wants, but pays for them himself. What you are saying is that if you cut my child payments, you are hurting the children! Not if you go to work and fund your lifestyle yourself! This is exactly like the thief who stands before the judge and says, if you send me to jail, you'll hurt my children - who'll provide for them? It's not the judge who is "hurting" the children, but the lifestyle choice of the parent. How can you accuse me (and others like me) of hating you, when we want the same thing for you as we want for ourselves. I don't hate myself.
29. not from MY pocket
menachem ,   NJ,USA- nathanye IL   (04.29.13)
Why are you talking about haredim? Why you don't talk about all other money that our gov. Is putting into garbidg such as the millions they give yearly for the palestenian's that soppurtint terror with MY money? I'm a haredy that's paying the israel gov. Property tax, income tax, and ma'am, etc. It's more then $6.5 MILLION'S yearly, & it's there much much more hareidy real astate investors likw me, in israel & all over the world that suffing the israeli gov. With funds, My money shuldnt go to the wages of such anty ISRAEL guys like yair lupid (stupid)
30. I'll support my kids, you support yours.
R ,   Israel   (04.29.13)
Have as many kids as you want, but don't expect others to support them. Why should I care about your kids if you don't? If you really do care about your kids, whether you have 1 or 15, get a job and feed them.
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