i keep on being shocked by the counterarguments from the haredim. they are from another reality. all we hear are these reasons why changing the status quo will alienate or cause a rift or this that and the other. but nowhere do we address the fundamental problem -- that having 100% of the population studying torah 100% of the time is a recipe for disaster. nobody in jewish history would have thought this arrangement would be appropriate. there are clearly some vested interests who are getting a lot of money from this deal who are trying to fight it. i am fully in support of a group of people studying torah in israel and if the haredim had not taken such blatant advantage of this would have even supported state funding for this. but having ALL haredi boys and girls not join the army, all men not do anything but study torah, and all children be kept handicapped compared to the rest of the world by studying religion but not mathematics and science is insane. i am hopeful that change will come from within the haredi community but who knows in the meanwhile, state funds cannot be used to support this madness. the end.

What none of you get - and what the Author is saying is that the people who will be most effected are EXACTLY the people are trying to be part of the State. These are the people who DO work, DO have boys in the army and DON'T complain. The problem is really one of respect - and lack of understanding. Nobody seems interested in WHY the Charedim do ANY of the things they do - from studying Torah to having more than 2.2 children. Any what is worse - NOBODY is asking Why!? Nobody is asking why boys don't want to go into an army where they will be punished for refusing to listen to girls sing. The question isn't what is right or not, but do any of you understand how important this is to them. So many of you hate people you have never met. So many of you wish destruction people who have never done you any wrong personally. Israel benefits by having such institution as Yad Sarah, Ezer MeTzion, Hatzalla and many more. They were all started by Ultra Orthadox people. And ALL of Israel is richer for them.

and write English.

So what you're saying is that yeshiva men receive no support from the Israeli government? If they do not want to be part of Israel, I assume they don't get ant subsidies.

In all the years of sending thousands of young men to yeshiva, I have one question - where are the gedolim? If the system of limited availability gave us Torah giants like Moshe Feinstein & the Rav (Soleveichik), shouldn't we have at least two or three on their level? Where are the gedolim? Diluting Torah study to make it available to all has weakened Judaism.

That was the case in pre - WWII Poland. Out of around 3.3 million of them there over 75% couldn't communicate in native language, the rest of them mutilating it and over 90% in reading and writing after 800+ years of squatting there in self impoesd ghettos just like today in Israel and all over the world ,...

Chosen by you term "Torah giants" says everything I need to know and more about you ,... Did you ever hear of Prof. Thomas L. Thompson? He's not a Torah giant but an Old Testament scholar to be precise, he alone takes your fairy tales apart in his book 'the mythic past' in front of your 'giants' and make them look like idiots and not one of their students willing to face him ,...

AND SHOVEM! We will recoup and fortify ourselves and become an independent society within this land. All the while watching to see who's society crumbles first. Hehe!

Lapid came into the election with nothing to offer but his fame and his insistence the hared would be drafted. Its all he had to offer but the Israeli secular public love nothing better than to see a politician harm the haredi in anyway possible. Lapid doesn't believe this government will last much more than a year, the draft is coming so now he needs more to go into the next election and so he wants to go after the haredi on every possible front. Fan the flames of hatred in a hope he can radicalise more of the hared because he can promise at the next election tha he is going to deal with these trouble makers, its an election winning tactic .. who cares about if you have something to offer in terms of policy if everybody knows you have declared a war on the haredi thats all that matters. You can hate the haredi and love the way Lapid is attacking them but at the end of the day he is a shallow politician with nothing of any substance to offer the country.

I don't know about the UK but in America the Satmar do not learn the core curriculum. I attended a lecture where young former Satmar members described their humiliation of bearly able to read write and speak English. The government looks the other way beacuse the Satmars vote in a block and the Rebbe can deliver the votes to the politicians. America with a population over 300 million can afford this - not Israel.

Nothing worse than getting a nod of approval from an ignorant anti-semite like you.

I couldn't have said it better myself. We have nothing against Torah, or Haredim. We actually want what is best for them. The status quo isn't good for anyone.

You're threatening to refuse all state money and live off other haredi money while butting out of Israeli society entirely? Do you promise?

Without core curriculum, the author wouldn't have his full time job. "higher education institutions designated for the haredi public" What exactly is a higher education institution for haredim?? for the secular world, higher education institutions are colleges/universities. you cannot attend colleges/universities without core curriculum. the author is a b.t., perhaps in his mind he is haredi, but the haredim would never consider a man with a college education and full time job who has served in the IDF to be haredi. the haredi world looks down on men like him. If you want to be able to provide for your family, you need core education. If you prefer for your family to suffer, starve, and live below the poverty level, then no, you don't need core curriculum. I've seen the handwriting that comes out of the haredi world, they seriously need to learn how to write legibly, without core education, they will continue to write like 4 year olds.

Satmar jews who study in the US in state funded schools study core curriculum according to US law. If any haredi sect sect wants state funding and dont recognise israel as a jewish state they should have no problem excepting the same conditions they would accept any where else in the world. Given that the thesis here is that the rest of the haredi public will follow satmars sect relationship with Israel its worth taking into account that if they want to not recognise israel as a jewish state it is a philisophical question, a state is allowed to define its identity according to its majority it does not demand that each individual accept that the definition is related to definition iof Jew according to any particular sect. It does however demand that all its citizens abide by the law of its government, and if not those citizens should be aware that the government has a right to penalise those who do not keep to the law. Enough of playing to sides of the same chess board you cannot demand government support at the same time as thumbing you nose at the government. Finally as for the 55% of the curriculum in schools to become study of talmud, it is interesting that this idea when as has been for the last 64 years has not been raised, ironically it has not been seen as a national imperative by any sect in Israel. why is that????????

King David - and no one else - was appointed over us. If the Crown says that the Temple korban shall henceforth be pigs..... then that's the legitimate new rule. These rebbonim have got to understand that they are merely assistant stagehands. They do not write the script. I say, whip them until they either obey the Crown, or go back to Monsey. The monkeys in weird costumes will ==not== be allowed to run the zoo.

threatening israeli public, I thought judaism is love.. This haredi is not anymore jewish..

Is anyone trying to understand the other side? Or is this destined to be an arm-wrestling match for eternity. I think the core-curriculum is grossly over-rated and obviously the Haredim need to study Torah to be accepted within their own society. I have no problem with each sector having their own curriculum but it should be funded in proportion to that sector's contribution to society (ie taxes, service etc)

And by monkeys i don t mean Haredim.

Some among the most important Kosher butchers in Jerusalem,had to close because they could not meet the newly required conditions by the State.

I have no objections for true genius to get educational funding. But, every Yankel and Shmeckele taking money from the State - No. My husband's great-great-grandfather was Rabbi Eliyahu Maaravi. He was one of the Kabbalah Great, and he worked as a shoe-maker.

I forgot to mention that they didn't produce anything and didnn't pay any taxes due to their shady business and cash deals ,...

How is it possible to further alienate a group which rejects the hegemony of the secular state, refuses to allow alternate religious views and views mere social interaction with "chilonim" as an existential threat?

As you said, is ANYONE trying to understand the other side, and what are the forces that motivate them. But when you say "it should be funded in proportion to that sector's contribution to society," How do you judge/calculate anyone's worth to society? The really rich have more, pay more taxes - are they worth more than someone who cleans the stairs and doesn't earn enough to pay much - or babies. Does a smile have worth? How exactly is one human being more "valuable" than another. And since when do Jews make such calculations???

Do you want the heredim educated, literate, informed progressive and thriving, ? looking forward to a greater future or to keep the heredim left in the dark of man made ignorance, superstitious nonsense, illiterate stupidity with a shallow futureless make believe which become mental prisoners of society. Make a choice- smart well educated heredim or today's parasitic backwards self-destructive lack of a wholesome rounded (core) education. pick one.

FROM Wikepedia on Kiriat Joel New York, where many Satmar followers live "According to 2008 census figures, the village has the highest poverty rate in the nation. More than two-thirds of residents live below the federal poverty line and 40% receive food stamps."