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B'Tselem: Most fatalities in Pillar of Defense were civilians
Elior Levy
Published: 09.05.13, 12:28
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31. Where has B'tselem taken those numbers ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (05.09.13)
Most likely from the gazans themselve as Israel has not them . And B'tselem believe the gazans ? They will certainly not tell B'tselen that many of those "civilians" were in fact combattants . No infornations given to the civilians ? There were ! But wich army will give infos to the enemies and tell them that they are going to bomb a place full of terrorists ? There were collateral casualties , inavoidable in any war , sad .
32. Most of the Syrians killed this past month were civilians
Vehana Paruk   (05.09.13)
33. Most of the Londoners killed in WW11 were civilians
Vehana Paruk   (05.09.13)
34. Ratio still very good
Gideon78 ,   CPT, South Africa   (05.09.13)
Most wars see a ratio of 1 combatant to around 10 civilians. WW1 and WW2 the ratio was 1:11. The Syrian conflict is around 1:6 and this operation was around 1:2.5. Which is better than most wars...we will not even mention the wars in Africa...sorry for B'Tselem they do not paint the correct picture!
35. All the Jews/Gypsies killed by Nazis were civilians
Vehana Paruk ,   London   (05.09.13)
B'Tselem, why are you silent on all the citizens killed by Syrians in Syria, Egyptians in Egypt, Sudanese in Sudan, Zimbabweans in Zimbabwe. Where were your 'Human Rights' voice and action there? Where is your 'Human Rights' voice on the bombing in Boston - only civilians were killed and harmed there. Your mute-ness roars
36. Israelis will never get away with this
observer ,   Egypt   (05.09.13)
37. B'Tselem is NOT a human rights group
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (05.09.13)
B'Tselem does not promote human rights in the west bank and gaza. B'Tselem only promotes Arab rights in the those areas, meaning it is a pro-Palestinian lobby group, not a human rights group. Human rights are universal, but B'Tselem does not use that basic principle.
38. double standards.
Mo ,   UK   (05.09.13)
When Muslim are killed it must be one of those: 1- they had what they deserved 2- because they were used as human shields 3- oh but Jews had been killed in greater numbers 4- we better without them 5- that's normal during a "war" 6- who cares I am not sure if you would be happy if someone justify the holocaust. Murder is Murder. no way around it
39. IDF acted against "war laws" ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (05.09.13)
War laws can ONLY be followed against recognisable armed forces , against a regular army . Here , in Gaza we didn't have this . Many , if not most of the fighters weared civilian clothes , were firing from inhabitated places . So no wonder if there were civilian casualties . The IDF NEVER fires intentionally at innocent civilians , mistakes are possible of course . It's war !
40. There should be a way to put B'Tselem on trial, not?
tom ,   tel aviv   (05.09.13)
41. alright screw it then
the mad zionist ,   San Francisco   (05.09.13)
instead of Israel going to great lengths to restraining itself at times, Israel should acquire the same exact missiles as Hamas and just fire it indiscriminately at their civilian populations too. a question I have for all those antiIsrael talkbackers. if Hamas had the arsenal and military capabilities as Israel does. do you think they would go to great lengths at firing at high probability locations only, or would they do what they do with their missiles, just aim towards civilian populations and fire? seriously, Israel has the firepower to destroy Hezbollah and all of Gaza. why do they put up with this all the time? it doesn't make sense. you would think that if all these antiIsrael people were right and Israel is just killing as many civilians as possible, why so little civilians with their firepower? if the tables were turned, and Hamas had Israels capabilities. they would try and kill as many people as possible. but in the meantime,all these ppeople that justify Hamas use of their missiles, Israel should really just fight the same way as Hamas. Israel isn't brutal enough.look at the success assad is having. and the world is ok with it obviously, especially those progressives. Israel should just show as much ruthlessness, because no matter what, no matter how great Israel holds its hands back, those young misinformed follower progressives, will always find an issue because it's Israel.
42. These guys
mike ,   seattle usa   (05.09.13)
When I hear these guys say that every missile fired into Israel from Gaza is a war crime, intended to kill and terrorize Jewish men, women and children, then maybe I will take them seriously when they issue "objective findings" about the number of civilians killed by the IDF in trying to stop those terrorist missiles. The Palestinians announce to the world on a daily basis that they love death, and that they have no higher goal than to die killing Jews. But when the Jews defend themselves and kill the terrorists before they can kill more Jews, the world, and these guys, have the nerve to criticize the Jews for not being perfect in the manner in which they defend themselves from terrorists who fire thousands of missiles indiscriminately into Israeli towns and villages. They are blaming the Jews for defending themselves from those determined to destroy them. If this is not anti-Semitism,. what is it?
43. And turning a whole population into a war zone by firing
a huh... ,   I see   (05.09.13)
rockets from playgrounds and hospitals and homes, seeing it as legitimate because "they're all become shahids this way," is okay and shouldn't be investigated?!
44. Collateral vs. Intended
Larry ,   Northridge, usa   (05.09.13)
It should be noted, but apparantly wasnt by the group conducting the survey, that while the gazan civilians killed were collateral damage, the Israeli civilians killed were the intended targets. what they should have emphasized was that hamas fired 1400 missiles at Israel's cities. Each was intended to kill as many cililians as possible. Each was configured to spray shrapnel at soft targets. What they also should have emphasized was that never has a country acted so assiduosly and successfully to avoid civilian casualties as Israel
45. #6 misstating laws doesn't work (2nd attempt)
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (05.09.13)
"the deliberate targeting of areas knowing there will be civilian casualties is a war crime and a crime against humanity. " That is not true in any way, shape or form. The law states that the presence of combatants in areas with civilians NEGATES protection. You do not know what the law states - is that deliberate or do to ignorance? In either case you are wrong. According to those same laws the combatants that hide among civilians are responsible for any harm that befalls those civilians. That is what the law really says. Try learning the facts first
46. #42
Non-Jew ,   England   (05.09.13)
Slap bang, right on the nail, Mike.
47. #6 Sarah B, it is legal to target a civilian area used...
What   (05.09.13)
for military purposes. If a civilian apartment building is used as a missile launching pad, it is perfectly legal to target this building.
48. I would like to see
daniela ,   panama   (05.09.13)
a inquiry that BĀ“tselem should have done when the Sbarro pizzeria was bombed, or the Dolphinarium, or the Hebrew University cafeteria, or the Hotel in Natanaya in Pesach... I would like to see the other side of the coin too, because human rights and war crimes should reported by botrh side, if you call yourself an impartial organization. But it seems you have only one eye, thats why we cannot take you seriously as a Human Rights organization.. I would suggest that in that case you stop wasting money and find a better job
49. Better to ignore these nuts
Avram Goldsmith ,   Toronto, Canada   (05.10.13)
No comments
50. Be'tselem was right, but.....
Brahim el Awal ,   Michigan, USA   (05.10.13)
Be'tselem was right. Many civilians were executed by Hamas. There are photos of 6 men dragged in the streets of Gaza with motor bike. Every Hamas war is an opportunity to kill Christians, dissidents, Fatah. Be'tselem did not account for Gazans killed. In 2007 127 Fatah were killed some thrown from building tops.
51. #1
Ben David Shlomo   (05.10.13)
So by your logic, every jewish death is the result of the Israeli government's policies?
52. #5
Ben David Shlomo   (05.10.13)
The child in the picture, being held in his father's arms, was killed by jews. You feel guilty and ashamed, that is why you are trying to deflect the blame, but it is not working. Shame on you!
53. #52 - are you talking about the Gazan BBC employee?
William ,   Israel   (05.11.13)
There was a father who was carrying his dead infant son, who died in the Gazan war. Evidence pointed to his death as a result of a Hamas rocket hitting near his house and not an IDF missile. That was verified by several forensics investigators internationally.
54. Fatalities
Rhonda ,   Chicago, USA   (05.11.13)
It's war. People get hurt. People get killed. If you don't want any innocent people killed, don't throw missiles into Southern Israel week after week, month after month.
55. B'tselem accusations are wrong
William ,   Israel   (05.11.13)
Civilians were given ample notice and through several channels at the same time. Infact, Israel had to send maps of where to go and when because the Hamas leadership disappeared. Since then, only B'tselem is claiming this. World govts and the UN have all lauded Israel's efforts to minimize civilian casualties in the midst of being under attack from thousands of rockets, in urban warfare, where terrorists used these civilians as human shields. Throughout the report, B'tselem kept saying "raises suspicions (of violations by Israel)" which is code for "we have no real proof on which to make a direct accusation.
56. #6 - Intl Law is clear, but you are not
William ,   Israel   (05.11.13)
Intl Law forbids the targeting of civilian areas for the sake of targeting civilians. Intl law does not forbid the targeting of civilian areas where military targets exist, and the protection of such civilian areas comes into question when those military targets are used as part of the aggression against the other side. Not Intl law does put the onus on the attacking party who targets that military target but its only to avoid as much as possible civilian casualties, not entirely. That is, if the target could be targeted at night when less people are on the street, then that's optimal. There is proof that Israel called off hits because of their location and because of high incidence of civilians around it. Israel also text messaged many Gazans in the area and dropped flyers all the time. There were incidents of IJ and Hamas grabbing them before civilian Gazans could see them. When those target were launch pads of rockets against Israeli civilians, the importance of hitting it was increased and the protection of the surrounding buildings was lost. Now, in your comparison with Nazi destroying the warsaw ghetto - if you can show where Nazis targeted only areas from which rocket fire came from and weapons stored, then you'd have a point. But they razed the entire ghetto. Israel did nothing close to that.
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