Opinion
Obsession with modesty killing us
Esti Shoshan
Published: 21.05.13, 20:36
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51 Talkbacks for this article
31. Who is to blame?
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (05.22.13)
When person starts believing on some sort of human leader instead of god, when he believes on someone else instead of himself, he enters a cult system. Haredim is the biggest cult system of the world and our government is funding it. When someone denies you the right to wear cloths of your choice, marry/stay without marriage with a man of your choice, deny to study the subject which will provide you job, you are spited and call whore because you don't agree with them, you can not divorce without a man's consent, you can not marry someone out of your cast - you all are abused and the abusers are your rabbanim. You all became salves of your own rabbinic cult system and lost your freedom to choose, to decide and to think between right and wrong. Everything is decided by rabbanim. There is nothing wrong to love god and pray for him. But haredim, in their chase of becoming near to god, became far far away from being a decent human
32. Hareidim are a bigger threat than Iran.
Ben Yisrael ,   Tel Aviv   (05.22.13)
33. Pushes me away
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (05.22.13)
It is behaviour like this that pushes me further and further from Judaism. I never know whether or not something is actually Halachah or some extreme law - like not hearing a woman singing - written by some rabbi with a problem.
34. No.2 & no. 29
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (05.22.13)
I agree that not all of them are violent or irrespective. Very small group of people are crossing the borders. Now look at our neighbors. Not all muslims/arabs are bad. Most of them want peace and do not wish to harm anyone. But still a little bunch of butchers are controlling them and the result is in front of you. The same here. If the woman is spited upon & 6 year old is called whore & if there are riots for opening a haredi school in ultra haredi sector & differentiate between sporadic and Ashkenazi students & beating people on the name of modesty & burning shops on the name of modesty & forcing woman to sit at the back of bus (if she does not want to), denying existence of this country & also denying her laws, giving protection to pedophiles & making a law that woman must marry before her 1st graduation, making woman wait for more than 35 years for getting divorce, making our youngsters to marry in cypress as our country can not allow intercast marriages, making a widow go through shameful drama with her brother-in-law if she want to get married again, if couple divorces on the that one of them leaves the religious style then the children are removed from non-religious parents authority (in case they are given to foster care but not to working earning non-religious parent????? - sounds normal), then haredi laws have managed to create hell on earth. The whole Israel is taken hostage by these stone age laws and lifestyle. It's time for change...accept it.
35. Haredi & Secular BOTH anti women
DoubleStandards ,   Jerusalem Israel   (05.22.13)
Why do we always have to choose between not seeing ANY women in Haredi society to seeing OBSCENE depictions of women on billboards on main highways bordering on pornography and even child pornography. There should be a joint movement by women and men on both sides to fight both as both are discriminating against women Where are these movements? Where is the government protecting women from both How can "fashion" moguls and ad agencies get away with depicting older women in revealing school girl uniforms and situations like the one at the entrance to Jerusalem was an older woman with schoolgirl knee socks being chased by an older man!! until this subject is also addressed by the law conflict will continue and it should.
36. Front of the bus
Ronnie ,   Israel   (05.22.13)
Very simple solution as happened in the States in the 60s with Rosa Parks. Pairs of women who have done self defense can get onto the front of a mahadrin bus. They will know what to do if challanged.
37. 12
zionist forever   (05.22.13)
The big problem for haredi bashers is they all dress the same. Whilst there are some slight difference in dress code depending on which sect your from they all wear the sort of clothes you find in 19th century Europe There is nothing wring with the way they dress but its like they all dress the same, all religious and study Torah so they are all radical and the haredi bashers are not interested in the idea that they might not all be the same. The only time the haredi bashers will be happy is when what they see as a backwards culture has been eradicated especially as the country is becoming increasingly secular.
38. Hysteria
Eliezer Eisenberg ,   Chicago   (05.22.13)
So does anyone think that Esti's articles and new laws are going to bring about change in the extremist community? Esti ends her op-ed saying " This is definitely a matter for the legislator and State to eradicate this phenomenon." Sorry, lady, I'm an advocate of delusion, but at least I know that I prefer fantasy to reality. You need to take that step too.
39. #20 - I agree, for one
ahad ha'amoratsim ,   usa   (05.22.13)
The incidents in this story are very hard to believe. Charedi bashing is the anti-Semitism of the Jews, and aberrational behavior by any Charedi is taken as typical of all Charedim. Note how many of the comments here call for an end to Charedim once and for all.
40. I don't disagree, but. . .
Joseph ,   London England   (05.22.13)
You could also tell the other side, namely how boys treat other boys who go too far away from the Haredi mainstream. Narrowness is not only a problem for women. There is an element of supply and demand in the media. Mishpacha, the top Haredi weekly magazine, incidentally edited by a woman, ran a lead article on Queen Elizabeth conferring an award on Mrs Cymmerman, head of London's Agudath Israel Housing Association. The photo showed only Buckingham Palace, not the Queen, not Mrs Cymmerman! When I was growing up in the States, our society pages included photos of girls getting engaged and photos of brides -- but no photos of men, because we felt it was immodest for men to be photographed! How has the world changed.
41. Tzniut/modesty the sign of our Jewish identity
Odeleya ,   USA   (05.23.13)
FOA ALL OF YOU WHO TRY SO HARD TO REDICULE YHE SPECIAL CODE OF MODESTY IN THE ORTHODOX WAY< ASK YOUR SELVES IF YOUR WAYS OF IMMORALITY AND LACK OF MODESTY IS BETTER?OUR MODEST WAY OF DRESS AND MODEST WAY OF LIFE BRINGS US A SPECIAL WAY OF LIFE WITH HONOR TO OURSELVES AND OUR RELATIONSHIPS WITH OUR HUSBANDS>THERE IS A BEAUTIFUL MODEST WAY THAT WE RAISE OUR CHILDREN WITH SPECIAL INNICENSE THAT IS LACKING OUT IN THE SCULAR WORLD.OUR CHILDREN ARE BROUGHT UP WITH FAMILY VALUES AND THE UNDERSTANDING THAT TO LIVE A MODEST LIFE AND TO DRESS WITH MODEST CODE BRINGS KEDUSHA TO THEIR LIVES >THIS KEDUSHA BRINGS BERACHOT FROM HASHEM OUR CREATOR!SO STOP REDICULING SOMETHING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
42. #41 Stop judging other's kedusha
(05.23.13)
43. Haredim cult infiltrated - is that a possibility ?
Barbara ,   Haifa Israel   (05.23.13)
Maybe the Haredim sector has been infiltrated with extremists (not of Jewish faith but hiding it) and brainwashing the rest of them. Not so strange when you think about it.
44. the journalist
madrie ,   madrid   (05.23.13)
this article adds nothing good. I imagine that the writer is not from Israel.
45. Modesty and exclution of women
Phil Fink ,   Beachwood OH USA   (05.23.13)
46. Rabbis should lead
Wade ,   NYC USA   (05.23.13)
in the struggle against extremism. There must be many Chareidi rabbis who are against violence and public humiliation of women. Such rabbis will counsel their flock against carrying outside the eruv on shabbat or using toothpaste, etc. Surely there are many respected Torah scholars who could preach against violence and public humiliation, both of which are serious sins.
47. Time to arm Jewish women with guns
Mike   (05.23.13)
The men need to be taught a lesson.
48. Manchester - the Holy City!!!
Ex Mancunian ,   Jerusalem   (05.24.13)
a) There is no one 'sane' in Manchester. b) As a former Salford Mancunian I am fascinated with the thought that the Jewish community in Manchester will not know where to turn when the Mashiach comes to Jerusalem and not to Kings Road. c) As for modesty - keep your nose out of Israel's affairs if you are not ready to defend the country but only prepared to take handouts from my hard earned salary when your kids come to 'learn' here for a year or so..
49. Tanach and modesty
Sidney ,   USA   (05.24.13)
One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, “She is Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite.” 4 Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. 1 Kings 1:11 Wherefore Nathan spake unto Bathsheba the mother of Solomon, Judaism is founded on immodesty.
50. how many Charedi women do you know?
(06.22.13)
I know many and they are all highly educated, highly respected and modest. They are not opressed but the most proud and spritual people. Stop assuming how people feel and ask them.
51. Disgusted from he religious
Melissa ,   USA   (08.08.13)
I first hand experienced all his mess. I was becomin more spiritual and dd used to go to seminary in Har not Jerusalem. I never been more disgusted in my life. I got on the bus nd wanted to sit in the front and people looked at me strange. I felt disgusted hat here I am an American with a college degree and treated like a piece of shit. The other religious weak women say nothing but agree and act helpless. I quickly left this brainwashing cult and rented an apartment in Jerusalem .the religious men would snare at women if u r hot c Erez head to toe in black or had ugly mousy brown hair. I am jewish and disgusted by the behavior of these crazy fanatical jewish religious men. The religious wmen i encountered were rude,jugdmental close minded and overly pushy and not inspirational at all.religion is a cult and the women with no self respect agrees to thaw brainwashing cults. Religion and war destroy the world and I have completely changed my view on religion as the wducted women I am. Religion And war will destroy he world.
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