The Haredim get it. Once their youth see the real world, they won't want to go back to the shtetl.

those that servived were liberated not by g-d or torah but by soldiers and freedom fighters. get yourself straighted out and get yourself a piece of "tail" if you know what I mean

i addressed your point precisely. you must think clearly about things please think about the last generation of wars: 1973, lebanon war, gaza wars, recent lebanon war: every single one of these was a military victory for isreal, but israel lost (or at least did not win) every single one of them. the reason: israel's lack of internal strength leaves it as prey to international pressure. 100,000 more soldiers wont make israel an ounce stronger. however, a population that is unified in its hatred of its enemies would not be able to be divided an manipulated by outside forces. haredim consider the arabs amalek and have no sympathy for them. israel would be far stronger with them as the majority. also,please refer to what i said about demographics.

its a false argument to say that haredim are going to bankrupt the chilonim. btw: my multimillioner haredi uncle would be quite amused by this. in the US the haredim i know are ridiculously wealthy. the reason for this is clear: they have no academic degrees and can not due basic algebra but they have what the non-haredim dont: they are extremely hard working, they work together really well and have large families to support family businesses, they have the ability to quickly learn any business. now, at present the israeli economy favors the chilonim, since most of the money now is being made in professions, but as the economy matures, more money will be made by private people in real estate and small business (like it is in the US): things haredim excel at. what we need are openings for haredim and for haredi businesses. since they are being discriminated against, perhaps we should have some affirmative action when it comes to government contracts or perhaps allowed to have jobs as egged bus drivers and policement - both of which require absolutely no education and both of which are completely controlled by chilonim.

at fordham, they arent trying to assimilate you out. in israel, they are. the cross at fordham is not a threat, but the army in israel is. in the US you can live in peace without the interfereance of others who don't have your best wishes in mind.

The haredim should understand the harm they are causing to the unity of the Jewish people by forsaking their duty to solidarity to all the Jewish nation or people. If they read the Tenach, Torah, prophets they should realize that what God wants first from the Jewish people is that they behave correctly toward each other.

The Haredim need to Learn Military Skills as a Shoah threatens again.The Torah world is threatened by lack of military capacity .

Throughout Jewish history communities gave monies so that the best and brightest could become Torah scholars. But never before in history have a group of Jews anywhere decided that every shmendrik is a talmid chacham deserving for the community to pay to keep him in a kolel forever. Never have Jews paid taxes so that tens of thousands of Jews who claimed to be worthy could pervert the Torah and use it as their sole parnasa at the expense of the commuity. Never have so many corrupt rabbis been caught faking entire yeshivas full of ghost students so that they could pocket millions. Corruption in the haredi yeshiva world is rife, and the example we have from you haredim is to protect the criminals and suck more money out of our pockets instead of stopping the criminals. Theft is hilul Hashem. It is against the Torah. Yet the haredim you protect are committing even more sins by hiding the criminals among you and making sure that more stealing and hilul Hashem takes place. The haredim are clearly not following Torah laws. That is why they have proven that they are not worthy of the rest of us spending our hard earned money to protect criminals and shnorers. Yes, I am willing to give money for talmidim chachamim to learn Torah and the serve Bet Yisrael as rabbanim and dayanim and melamdim. But damned if I'm going to pay my taxes for thousands of ordinary shmendriks to pretend they are "scholars".

your right on the money-- i hope david of new york reads your comment.