Opinion
Let's wait 3 years and see
Eitan Haber
Published: 26.05.13, 20:05
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Not quite!
Robert Haymond ,   Teko'a, Israel   (05.26.13)
Divesting itself from all financial support including, but not limited to, Old Age Pensions, formal educational institutions, Social Security and Health Care might actually do the trick and without any violence on the Charedi part to speak of.
2. Heloni draft dodgers.
michael Pielet ,   israel   (05.26.13)
Words of wisdom from numb nuts Haber. Do not worry, the national religious, giborai Israel will lead the IDF and save the country. How about the heloni draft dodgers hiding in Tel Aviv.
3. Haridi Bill
Mordechai ,   Beit Shemesh   (05.26.13)
i have great respect Eitan Haber, and i think he has a strong argument however if he is right then we can say goodbye to the State of Israel. Israel cannot consist of those that do and those who only take. the answer is not to take them to prison, but to deprive them and their Yeshivot of finance. to impose a severe tax on any monies bought from overseas to replace the government handouts. once there is no money and the only way to get it is to do national service whether it be in the IDF or civilian services, including building schools and roads, then there will be no need for prisons. the biggest mistake is to allow them to start at 21, there should be no differential for all persons, all to to start their national service from 18!
4. 2 options...
Aharon ,   Holon, IL   (05.26.13)
The gov't has 2 options. Capitulate to the Rebbe's and their perverse/corrupt ways or revoke their citizenship and deport them. If you do not serve, you are NOT a patriot.
5. USA model
dave ,   safet israel   (05.26.13)
Make a professional army like the US. Mostly poor people, no equal burden between rich and poor.
6. Then take their benefits away
Danny   (05.26.13)
Most Israelis have no problem with haredi making no contribution to society, just resent carrying them. Send them to the border towns where they can be the first to absorb rockets and mortar, revoke their citizenship and all their benefits.
7. I hope...
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.26.13)
that Eitan Haber is wrong, but I fear that he is right :(
8. Postponing for 3 yrs is great
Jacob ,   Tel Aviv   (05.26.13)
By then, Peri, Lapid, Bennet and other evil guys will be history.
9. Simple those who dont serve cut their benifits
Haim ,   TA   (05.27.13)
Its really quite simple, those religious parasites who dont serve in the IDF will have their social beniefits cut completly and will receive no money from the state what so ever, if they dont like it , they are free to leave the country.In fact im sure we could raise a fund which will pay for theri one way tickets.
10. Haredi draft
SF ,   Jerusalem   (05.27.13)
This article paints a usual one-sided view of the issue. While it is true that we as hareidim are concerned about the short- and long-term impact of the draft on our culture and family lives, we are equally concerned with the welfare of all of klal Yisroel. WE DEEPLY BELIEVE THAT TORAH STUDY PROTECTS ISRAEL AND IS ESSENTIAL TO OUR SURVIVAL BOTH AS A PEOPLE AND A NATION IN ERETZ ISRAEL. We believe Hashem is the key to victory in our constant fight for survival against our unfriendly neighbors. He fights our wars, in the trenches, side-by-side with our soldiers So we are also worried about the welfare of our secular brothers. You see only separatism and detachment. We see something much more profound.
11. what to do??
Jeff ,   USA   (05.27.13)
Cut off their state funding.
12. Haredim
Edouard ,   Montreal canada   (05.27.13)
First of all even if we manage to force this Haredim to serve in the idf ,what kind of soldiers are they going to be??? They will be more if a burden than anything Even in a office they will be useless We do not want this guys in the idf But we should not give they community ANY benefit or any money NOTHING AT ALL
13. No.3 has made an excellant point!
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (05.27.13)
14. Yesh Atid proposed a three year period before the election
Ilan   (05.27.13)
Anyone who cared to read the platform on the Yesh Atid website knows that they proposed a three year period prior to actual enforcement. You can say many things about the Peri plan, but no one can honestly claim that it deviates very far from the campaign period.
15. SF #10
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (05.27.13)
So you think it is absolutely correct that my children should do with less so that I can pay more taxes to support you and your children?
16. No 3 is 100% right
TC   (05.27.13)
Money is the Achille's heel.
17. Those who say cut the benefits, how despicable.
Moshe ,   Israel   (05.27.13)
Why don't you say that for Arabs nor the Tel Aviv "elite" draft dodgers, because you're bias towards haredim.
18. #17, nonsense
Danny   (05.27.13)
There is an argument to be made for not forcing Israeli Arabs not to serve in the army - there is no argument against national service though. I would happily cut off all benefits to those who do not serve in one capacity or another. That said the haredim represent a signficant portion of benefits handed out vs tax taken in. So start with the largest issue first, not a handful of Tel Avivers.
19. Israel should have integrated them into society
David ,   Los Angeles   (05.27.13)
Hasidim serving in the IDF or national service is only part of the solution. There should be programs in Israel to integrate the Hasidim into secular society. The kibbutzim should take in some of these Orthodox young people, see them through their military service and higher education so they can find jobs and become productive citizens.
20. To #10
Shoshana   (05.28.13)
How about you protect Israel from afar, let say - Brooklyn? I'm sure God can here you from there too! Oh, wait! I forgot - anywhere outside of Israel you won't be fully funded to sit all day and "protect"...you'll actually have to work and feed your 18 "mitzvah children". And after work - well, then you can do whatever you want!
21. #20
Joe ,   Bet Shemesh   (05.28.13)
I happened to have served in Givati and did over 15 years of combat reserve. During my service I witnessed many people who were not good soldiers and should not have been in the army. Also witnessed so many Jobniks that do absolutely nothing but talk to girls all day and play on their phones. Some of the posters here suggest that the Heredi should also become Jobniks - How is this helping the state. We already have enough people who do not want to be in the army. Also by forcing a draft it will alienate any potential for the future of the Nachal Heredi to grow. This unit was started by Heredi jews without any force. Those who truly want whats best for Israel would be smart to stay far away from these ideas. The IDF in its presentation to the Peri committee said these ideas are not going to work. Now getting to the view of who is protecting Israel really - then the answer is both. All of Israels wars are fought on the spiritual level and the physical level. You need an army but just as important or more important is the Torah the mitzvote that we keep as a nation. I would challenge anyone on this board to find out for themselves as to what is more difficult. Serving in the IDF or studying in Yeshiva all day. Studying in Yeshiva all day is much harder and I am sure that if it was forced on secular youth to go to Yeshiva they would flee from the yeshiva as quick as possible. So if you dont understand the Heredi world view or see what they are doing and respect it there is nothing to talk about.
22. 21 So make us marvel at Haredi difficulty with an example
Cyberbrain ,   Israel   (05.28.13)
You should have endless examples that are just too difficult for us. Let's hear that wondrous wisdom that's too difficult for the scientists and intellectuals of the world. Back up your empty boast with hard examples or shut up and go away.
23. #22
Shalom Hartman   (05.29.13)
Studying gemara in depth is mentally exhausting, no less than running a marathon is physically exhausting. Gemara contains much more than the "core curriculum" for those who truly extend the effort to plunge into it, it has all the wisdom of the world.
24. 23 So make us marvel at Gemara difficulty by example
Cyberbrain ,   Israel   (05.29.13)
25. 24 cyberbrain
Joe ,   Bet Shemesh   (05.29.13)
You are invited to any yeshiva of your choice to get an example
26. 25 Produce example. We see much evidence to contrary!
Cyberbrain ,   Israel   (05.29.13)
No more dodging or dancing or bluffing. Your superficiality and self-proclaimed greatness of wisdom is foolish arrogance with no basis in reality. Your studies are as selective, leaving out parts that your rabbis find inconvenient, as the Christians. The terms you should be using of yeshiva study are shallow, tedious, self-vaunting, sanctimonious and arrogant. Until you demonstrate otherwise that's the reality. Produce! Let's see this wondrous wisdom all of you boast. Is it magically constrained within the walls of the yeshiva building? Does it evaporate to a mirage when you leave the building? (sound of crickets goes here)
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