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New bill aims to scrap sex clause from ID cards
Moran Azulay
Published: 04.06.13, 13:10
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17 Talkbacks for this article
1. bad bad bad idea, border gurds in some countries
ghostq   (06.04.13)
don't care about rights of the transgender community when they r looking for drug dealers, I have a relative who was arrested because she carried the same name as a famouse drug dealer from the area, the only difference was the gender so they let her go after 8 hours. latin amerika police stations r not places for vacation. to prevent false arrest better keep the gender in the ID.
2. Maybe they should remove date of birth too..
Boortz ,   PolCorrect, USA   (06.04.13)
That way they won't insult old people as well...
3. I am ashamed of Israel
Dan   (06.04.13)
Israeli identity cards state that one is 'Jewish' or 'Arab' – a straightforward, unabashedly racist distinction – and all that supposedly progressive young Israeli lawmakers care about is 'boy' vs 'girl'?
4. How do people vote for this time and money waster?
jrebecca ,   modiin   (06.04.13)
5. this law isn't democratic
lili   (06.04.13)
minority can not create law for the majority of people. this law doesn't influence the transgender population only. it will also create problems for single mothers, when single mothers with unisex name won't get payed so not only they won't get child support from the ex-husband the goverment will drop any aid.
6. what about public toilets
zionist forever   (06.04.13)
Next thing you know these loonies will be pushing bills banning public toilets being listed as gender specific. What if an individual is biologically male but feels like a woman, they are going to have a mental breakdown deciding which toilet to go to. When it comes to to such important documents you do not get politically correct. Sexuality is a state of mind gender is not and political correctness should not take precedent to security. Its an official document and used for everything from collecting something from the post office - to getting a job so we cannot allow such an important document to be trivialised for sake of a handful of people who had sex change operations. If we are going to be causing such distress by obligating them to list their biological gender on their ID card then they need to see a doctor. The only good thing about this bill is for the first time it might put Lapid and his yes man Bennet at loggerheads. Maybe Bennet will even find the courage to stand up to his boss and say NO
7. #3 - Dan
Ariel ,   Modi'in, Israel   (06.04.13)
Israeli ID cards have not listed race (read - nationality) for ages!!
8. To nr 3: Distinction between Jews and non Jews in Israel
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.04.13)
The fact of the matter is that upholding identity is very democratic and creates stability. Many nations in Europe have fallen apart because of mult-cultural identities. In Europe, nation states paradoxically claim that their nationalities is based on their ancestry, ethnicity and culture, while claiming that everyone holding their passports "becomes one of them" - but that only creates a distinction between first class citizens and second class citizens. Ethnic and racial minorities are "German" or "French" as far as their passports and citizenships are concerned, but they aren't really Germans and French in an ethnic or racial sense, so they are "a part of the nation" since they hold a passport, but they are not fully accepted. Making no distinction between ethnicities will result in the host nation's ethnic and national identity becoming diluted while minorities are not fully accepted because they have a different ethnicity. So making a distinction between Jews and non Jews is very democratic and creates stability in Israel. Claiming that Arabs can have 22 Arab nation states for themselves (they are NO bi-national states remind you), and that dozens of ethnic nation states can legitimately exist across Europe, Middle East and Asia, but Israel cannot, is no doubt discriminatory and racist. Are you saying that identity itself is racist? Is it racist to say that Chinese people are Chinese and that Greeks are Greek? Are you saying that denial of identity is not racist? Do you even comprehend what racism means? It means to ascribe an entire race of people or ethnicity, collective negative or positive traits, meaning that an ethnic or racial group is supposedly and collectively either "inferior" or "superior". That's what racism means. Stating identity and ethnicity is not racist since it doesn't claim that one group is "inferior" or "superior".
9. post number 3 get your facts right
zionist forever   (06.04.13)
My card has ID number My name My parents details My date of birth My Sex No details about ethnicity or faith. The fact that these things were once on ID cards but no longer means you have got nothing to moan about. There is also difference between dropping the bit that says what your faith is and dropping the bit that says what your gender is. The ID card is an official document and so like on all other official documents gender should be included.
10. #8, But this distinction was dropped years ago
Jake   (06.04.13)
and is no longer cited on the Teudat Zehut, so the discussion is irrelevant.
11. Dan #3, did you even bother to read the article?
Jake   (06.04.13)
"Zandberg added that "as to the general public, it is an unnecessary and useless article. As the nationality clause, that did not add any relevant information and was meant to needlessly mark people, WAS CANCELED IN THE PAST, so is the sex clause in the ID irrelevant."
12. Alexander, Jewish is not a country
(06.04.13)
Greeks can be Greeks and Chinese be Chinese.... It's racist and discriminatory to mention on any official paper what is your religion. You mentioned French and German. Can you define what a Frenchman and a German are? What are their definition? I'm very curious to know (being French myself) Please enlight me!
13. To nr 10 - I'm not talking about Teudat Zehut
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.04.13)
I'm talking about the fact that in Israel our authorities (and rightfully so) distinguish between Jews and non Jews in population counts. And we often use religion to give a hint of who is ethnically Jewish and who is not since most people who practice Judaism are certainly ethnically Jewish. Demographic studies usually include ethnicity, the question of loyalty to Israel is of course based on ethnicity and preserving Israel's ethnic character, and both the authorities and the man on the street distinguish between citizenship and ethnicity - that's what I was refering to in my talkback nr 8. And that is important since most people in Israel want Israel to remain a Jewish state. The good news is that Israel will remain a Jewish state since Jewish and Arab birthrates are beginning to converge and it's not entirely impossible that future Jewish birthrates will exceed Arab birthrates. As far as Teudat Zehut is concerned, you're absolutely correct. That question is highly irrelevant today.
14. To: No. 12
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (06.05.13)
Arab is not a religion.
15. @ #13, Alexander
M. Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (06.05.13)
It's called demographics and serves a number of purposes, not all of them for the state alone. I think doing away with gender classification is stupid, because it's a means of identification, and is not "irrelevant" as such. Anyone with a gender identity crisis can ask the Ministry of the Interior to change their definition. Demographics have a lot to do with assignment of government employees (you wouldn't put a clerk who speaks only Arabic and no Hebrew to receive the public in Tel Aviv, but you might in Nazareth), public services that may be demographic-specific and a multitude of other reasons. Besides, would you rather that those working at the Central Bureau of Statistics get their salaries for doing nothing? Every country does such demographic calculations, including the US.
16. To nr 15 M. Davison
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.05.13)
I agree with everything you stated. I suggest you read my talkback nr 13 again. I wasn't criticizing Israel - I was and I still am applauding Israel's decision to make a very clear distinction between ethnicity and citizenship, and demographics studies in Israel clearly reveal this intention on behalf of our authorities. As I said before: I agree with everything you stated. You clearly have misunderstood me. I wasn't making a case against demographic -specific studies. I was making a case for demographic - specific studies. "I think doing away with gender classification is stupid, because it's a means of identification, and is not "irrelevant" as such. Anyone with a gender identity crisis can ask the Ministry of the Interior to change their definition." Again, Is suggest you READ my talkback again. Where exactly did I state that doing away with gender classification is desirable? Like you I also believe that this is indeed stupid since gender shouldn't be an issue to begin with. Things will get much easier if you pay attention and actually read my talkback. Nothing of what I've previously stated contradicts your opinions or conclusions. Remember these statements I made in talkback nr 13? "I'm talking about the fact that in Israel our authorities (and rightfully so) distinguish between Jews and non Jews in population counts." Please notice that I said RIGHTFULLY SO. "The good news is that Israel will remain a Jewish state since Jewish and Arab birthrates are beginning to converge and it's not entirely impossible that future Jewish birthrates will exceed Arab birthrates." Demographics studies should and must be used to measure how many percent of our population is Jewish and who is not for the explicit purpose of maintaing Israel as a de jure and as a de facto Jewish state.
17. To nr 12: The anonymous one
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (06.05.13)
"Alexander, Jewish is not a country" No, but Israel is, in which the ethnic and national character is Israeli or Jewish (ethnically speaking, Israeli and Jewish are the same). Is there a country called "French" or "German"? No, there is a country called France and Germany. Make a distinction between noun and adjective. Israel, Israelis or Jews are nouns. Jewish or Israeli are adjectives. "Greeks can be Greeks and Chinese be Chinese.... " Yes? And? What's your point? The human race is usually divided into ethnicity and culture specific identities. Do you consider a natural fact a problem in itself? "It's racist and discriminatory to mention on any official paper what is your religion. " Racism involves ethnic and racial groups - not religious beliefs. Issues pertaining religion cannot possibly be racist since racism involves racial stock or ethnicity - not religion. USA has demographics-specific studies that involve both ethnicity and religion, and that data is being kept in official documents. Why is it racist and disriminatory to state ethnicity and religion in official documents locked up in a government institution? What's so racist and discriminatory about that? If you need an Israeli guy to define your French identity, I suggest that go and seek professional help. "Please enlight me!" I will enlighten you that the word is called ENLIGHTEN. In the continuation: state your name, your country, please learn what words, terms, expressions and concepts actually mean and please write in a grammatically correct English. Get yourself an education and stop asking stupid questions. If not - forget it.
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