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Ultimatum to haredim: Core studies or forced studies
Atilla Shmolfavi
Published: 11.06.13, 19:55
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20 Talkbacks for this article
1. You can lead a horse to water ,...
split ,   US   (06.11.13)
2. Leading horse to Water...
Shmulik ,   Yehud   (06.11.13)
And if he does NOT want to drink, just let him dehydrate....
3. Educational reforms? Step by step
Nora Tel Aviv   (06.11.13)
Haredi schools must be introduced very progressively to this basic knowledge reform. Don`t throw them overboard. They have never been at sea.
4. Close the tap
Charly ,   Meah Sheorim   (06.11.13)
I don't understand why the government still funds all these hareidi schools. They don't want secular subjects lest they become capable of finding a job and G-d FORBID, WORKING. Nothing to do with "wasting time" which could otherwisw be used in Tora. Stupid politicians. Hareidim can contunie with their system as they wish, but the G'ment should once and for all STOP subsidizing them, with our tax money! Zero shekel they should be getting if they refuse to comply. People only understand the language of money.
5. The Haredi are pushing themselves to
Al   (06.11.13)
grinding poverty and insignificance. You cant rewrite 'STUPID', however you can praise them for trying. Stop making them do anything. Take away that welfare teat and they will grow a brain. Sometimes the only wake up call they will ever hear is the hunger sounds coming from their stomachs. They need to be served a cold dish of tough love.
6. # 3 - You don't get it ,...
split ,   US   (06.11.13)
An educated and informed sheep herd means a death sentence to their 'shepards' unchalenged control over the flock and their demise,... It won't happen - They can't survive without mooching others so you're stuck ,... Good luck ;) ,...
7. Many Religious Studied Maths
Zechariah   (06.12.13)
Maimonides studied maths and the Healing Knowledge of his Generation so the Haredim ought do Hatzollah which requires in this generation arithmetic skills and Computor knowledge .Also the Haredim need to Have Survival Skills in case a Enemy attempts Mass Attacks .
8. sorry, i see nothing other than antisemitism here
david ,   new york   (06.12.13)
i think that jews in israel should have at least as much freedom as they do in america (otherwise, why precisely is there an israel?) what i see here is an attempt to destroy haredi cluture. here in the US, you could essentially teach your kids whatevery you want and not teach them whatevery you want (there are some "rules" on the books, but they are never enforced). i moved from florida to NY and no one even knew i was here. i could have kept my kids at home all day and have them milk the cows if i wanted to.
9. A good way to prove Neturei Karta right
Aaron Kuperman ,   Baltimore, MD   (06.12.13)
The Muslims never attempted to dictate educational policy to Jews, and with one exception (which failed miserably) never attempted to conscript Jews. Obviously the coalition's goal is to convince 10% of Israel's population that they would be better with a one-state solution, with an Arab majority - a view only a small minority of Hareidi supported (prior to last January).
10. Forced Studies
David ,   usa   (06.12.13)
For somebody who never visited Jerusalem or Bnie Barak or any other Chareidi neighborhood, it almost seems that the Chareidim are ALL sitting all day and drinking coffee, and don't have a clue how to add zilch! waiting for handouts from the government!! But for anybody who did visit any of these areas, do see successful businesses owned by Chareidim flourishing, the stores they own and operate are always full of happy customers, tourists, even secular Israelis !! And you know what else ? They even employ secular people in their businesses!! So !! of course this is all another attempt to get the public to blame everything on the Chariedim!! And what about all the organization these dumb uneducated, parasites created for the good of the entire nation of Israel ?? To name just two !! ZAKA !! HATZOLLAH !! The bottom line is, don't get carried away by some politician, who have nothing else on their hands to do, but to harass an entire section of Jews, and to create more friction to the people of your beloved country !! Do you really think even for one second, that even if the entire Chariedi community will accept everything being imposed on them right now, the blaming and hatred will stop ?? We all know the truth !!! There will always be something else to blame the Chareidim!! Just like the entire world will always blame everything that happens globally on all the Jews!!
11. fine line
Concerned   (06.12.13)
With these legislations a dangerous line is being crossed where the government forces parents to teach subjects they find to be against their beliefs. Bring vocational skillls into the schools and basic math and language if you are really worried about people getting jobs. This appears to be more a war against an individuals way of life and is a violation of their religious freedoms.
12. #8 Antisemitism? WRONG AGAIN!
Ben ,   Chutzlaaretz   (06.12.13)
Sorry David, but allowing a segment of society to allow itself to not learn and not progress on the very basic skills needed to survive would be antisemitic. Sometimes, love and care require some tough measures. We need to bring the Haredi educational system up. Allowing all these boys and girls to be brought up sans math and science and Hebrew is just plain wrong. Baby's don't enjoy it when we give them inoculations, but at some point they grow up and realize their parents did it out of love. The best way to show we care about the Haredi sector is to make force them to educate their young. Alas the bottom line is financial though, not love or care. If the Haredi schools wants tax payer funds, they need to adhere to some minimum standard. That's it, that's that! In your case, you can choose to not educate your children in NY or Florida, but when they can't earn a living and require welfare as a result, it becomes everyone else' problem too.
13. equality and core subjects
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (06.12.13)
when will the seculars be coerced into learning the Talmud and the Chumash? Do they think they are so smart that they can coerce the charadim into learning what they, the seculars, feel is so important? Let the seculars be prepared that when the religious gain the upper hand, and it is coming soon due to the rapid birth and immigration of the religious as opposed to the shrinking birth and emmigration of the seculars, that we religious will coerce the seculars into studying Talmud and Chumash and we will close the beaches and coffee shops, etc on the Shabbat.
14. #13 - Spectre of the Hareban (Horriban), very real
Anon ,   Israel   (06.12.13)
15. #8
Ralph ,   Rishon   (06.12.13)
You've hit the nail on the head. The government doesn't pay for your "education" in the US. The government here does, so it should have some say in what is taught. The haradi schools, yeshivas, kolels or whatever they want to call themselves have the alternative. Don't teach the core subjects, but don't get government funding. You don't need a university degree to understand that.
16. #13 equality and equalness: scary
ma nishma ,   modiin   (06.12.13)
If the seculars can compel the charadim, so it is only fair that the charadim can compel the seculars. It seems that Lapid is giving the charadim the ability to control non religious people when they gain control. scary
17. Ignorance doesn't serve seculars any better than Khareidim
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (06.12.13)
Ignorance is ignorance -- and produces sons of Darkness. Jews can never confront or deal with Christian or Muslim arguments by continuing to gouge out eyes and plug up ears of their zombies. It requires knowledge, not fear of knowledge. Those who are knowledgeable fear only ha-Sheim -- not rival religious discussion. Beware the zombium in your tea (or Kool-Aid).
18. Don't understand something
Avi   (06.12.13)
Wasn't it a condition since the moment arabs and haredim received their own education systems that for state recognition of their schools and funding they must teach basic things like language and math? This is what I was led to believe. Why then, if it's not true, was money given in the first place?
19. Instead of constantly blaming the ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (06.12.13)
Haredim ,the Secular society should first deal with their own disfunctions,namely the Israeli youth drinking and drug problems,violence , rapes and other crimes in schools When these problems will be resolved ,they will not have to enforce their way of life on the Orthodox youth,who will attracted to them like flies to honey.
20. 15 - government doesn't pay for your "education" in the US.
split ,   US   (06.12.13)
You have no idea what are you talking about ,... Google: "Yeshivas Score Huge Pell Grant Windfall" , "Them and Them" "A Village With the Numbers, Not the Image, of the Poorest Place"
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