Opinion
Arab Spring still here
Yoram Meital
Published: 03.07.13, 10:10
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. whose side will obama come down in favour of
zionist forever   (07.03.13)
Whilst its not for anything as glamorous as supporting democracy by clinging into power Morsi is upholding democracy. He was elected by a substantial majority just one year ago. When it comes to policy you cannot expect the president to the countries economic problems in a single year. Right now Egypt is not got a democracy they have a mob rule government. They are attempting to change the countries leader through protests rather than elections. The armed forces which are supposed to answer to the president are coming out in favour of the mob and have even threatened to remove Morsi by force if needed. I wonder how Obama will deal with these protests.? Be interested to see if he takes the supports Morisi because he was elected or if he does another Mubarak and he tells Morisi he must resign because its what the public want.
2. If by "Spring" he refers to anything positive in terms of
tom ,   tel aviv   (07.03.13)
human, political development ,he's wrong; as wrong as only a"professor/expert" can be. Taking his obvious siding with the narrative of our enemies, it is only to be expected. Just like Shimon P. he will never admit to being a highly educated dupe. Arab/Muslim democracy isn't doable.
3. Threat of Islamic winter alive and kicking
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.03.13)
Just as inevitable as the seasons change, an Islamic winter will arrive. It is good to see so many Egyptians taking to the streets to prevent the winter but it is an impossible task. The majority are Islamists, and when everything else fails people turn more and more to religion. Patience, after winter comes spring...not before.
4. #2 well said
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (07.03.13)
Leftists dismiss reality, experience and history. Instead they invent a narrative they want, and religiously convince themselves that they are correct. It is not for nothing that psychiatrists increasingly recognize Leftism as a serious mental disease.
5. To No. 2
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.03.13)
"Arab/Muslim democracy isn't doable." How wonderfully patronising! If the the ultra-orthodox had their way perhaps democracy would not be "doable" in Israel either. Democracy took a long time to take root in the West, with full suffrage not emerging in many countries (including Britain) until less than a hundred years ago. But, in any case, democracy is not just about an elected dictatorship - which is apparently Morsi's position - it is also about ensuring civil liberties and protecting the rights of minorities. Here, all countries have much to learn - including Israel. As for siding with the "narrative of our enemies" that just puts you in the same camp as all the rest of the authoritarian Middle Eastern states as well as those countries which exist solely on the basis of fear.
6. #5 slow down ....
Serge ,   NY USA   (07.03.13)
Come on, slow down in your lefty anti-Semitic British rant... We're talking in Islam being compatible with the idea (real idea) of democracy on an open and pluralistic society. Is the implementation of Shariah law by the Morsi and his party, clearly stated in the new Egyptian constitution, a strong indication that democracy is really not doable? Is the barbaric persecution of the Christian community another indication that pluralistic society is AGAIN not doable? The concept of democracy and pluralistic and open societies was developed in countries where the religious and cultural background were defined by a "Judaico/Christian" idea of civilization. And that means that , even considering all the historical turbulence that both religions had to deal in the last two millennia , the fact is it was from this religious heritage that our modern, democratic and pluralistic western societies have been evolved . And Islam is a religion that, right now, has having the task of being (or not ) compatible with democracy and a pluralistic society. Not that the British lefty with its "prophets of multiculturalism" didn't know that already... They are just adapting to a "new" subjugation by Islam and Shariah law in the UK.
7. #5:Accidentally you have said something that could explain
tom ,   tel aviv   (07.03.13)
your lemming-like attitude to the events unfolding all around you (us): "existing on the basis of fear". It seems to me you've lost that fear, since you cannot perceive enemies anymore, only different shades of gray....You have evolved (with much of Western Europe) into an animal devoid of survival instinct and as such you will eventually perish. Not that it'll please me....but there's obviously nobody home to talk to! Otherwise: have a great week.
8. Not spring... not yet
Jacob E ,   Holon, Israel   (07.03.13)
If we're using analogies like this, I don't think we are at the arab spring yet. Just because they are trying to get rid of their more oppressive leaders doesn't mean anything. Only when they figure out how to install a leader who will work for a progressive society will they be in the spring. Spring is when things grow not when they're burned down.
9. To No.7
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.03.13)
Well, we will all eventually perish, tom! But as to your 'observation' of what I said you need to clean your glasses. I said 'existing SOLELY on the basis of fear'. In other words, without the fear such societies may well fall apart. So, try this for size. Without a uniting fear of the Arab/Muslim world the highly diverse Jewish population of Israel would be at each other's throats more than they are at the moment and disintegrate into secular and religious mini-states. Fanciful? Really? Mea Shearim is practically there already.
10. Was this written several days ago?
Michael Redbourn ,   Arad   (07.03.13)
If it wasn't written several days ago then Yoram Meital needs to start doing his supposed journalist's job and lay off the N. Tel Aviv cappuccinos .. The article must be, or hopefully is, a shock and embarrassment to Yoram Meital
11. To No. 6
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.03.13)
It is a pity you did not read my post rather than launch into empty right-wing rhetoric. Or, maybe my words were ambiguous, so let me clarify. Morsi's position, despite his protestations, is in effect anti-democratic because it merely substitutes the tyranny of an Islamist majority (if, indeed it is a majority) for the tyranny of Mubarak. Secondly, your simplistic view that democracy is the outcome of Judaeo-Christian ideas does not hold water. Such ideas have contributed a tremendous amount to cultures throughout the world, but democracy, was a classical Hellenic notion - as you well know. As an aside, if it was not for the Muslims of medieval Spain, together with such Jewish figures as Maimonides, the 'West would have remained in ignorance of classical philosophy and much of mathematical and early scientific thought. Finally, yet again we have the knee-jerk 'anti-semitic British' insult - the last refuge of an unthinking idiot who believes in fairy tales about the domination of the UK by Islam and Sharia law. I am Jewish (and, before you get that one in, not 'self-hating') - always have been, always will be.
12. To nr 5 Bertram - you are detached from reality
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (07.03.13)
tom from tel aviv is a right winger - true (like myself), but he seems to be liberal and secular. And being religious is not a crime you know. Orthodox Judaism laid the foundation of democracy in case you didn't know that Bertie. I don't see anything remotely "fanatical" about tom. The only fanatics in here are you Bertie and your anti-Semitic buddies like split, Jarda, World Citizen etc. A fear society is always based on despotism - not democracy. You make many assumptions about tom, about me and about others, but you don't have a clue Bertie of who we are and we stand for. Israel doesn't stand for fear - its stands for the Jewish people and democracy. The Islamic Culture is absolutely based on fear. tom wasn't saying that Arabs are genetically incapable of embracing the principles of democracy, only that the Judeo-Christian tradition speaks to the heart and to human nature whereas Islam is an imposed artifical idea that doesn't promote democracy in anyway. Islam and democracy are NOT compatible - ever. The only way to "make" them compatible is to change Islam itself. Theologically speaking, Islam cannot and will not alow itself to be changed since any change in Islam is symptomatic with Islam not being complete or not being the final Word of God and Muhammed - therefore any change being made in Islam will render it illegitimate from a purely ISLAMIC theological viewpoint. And a part of Islam is absolutely about violating human rights And Serge from NY USA is right that democracy is based on the Judeo-Christian heritage and theology. Now Bertie, take a sip your afternoon tea and get your medication.
13. Don't count your chickens before they hatch
Richard Armbruster ,   Quidley, H.R.   (07.03.13)
14. To No. 12
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.03.13)
Alexander, if you had read my post at No. 12 you might have tempered your rhetoric. Let's get one thing straight. I am not anti-religion, but for me, it should be part of the private sphere and not imposed on others. So, Islamism and democracy are not compatible. Most religions, when promoted as political ideologies, are incompatible with democracy. Why? Because of their absolutist character. Democracy, by definition, is grounded in people, discussion, debate, freedom, etc. If that is fanatical then, ok, I am a fanatic. But, you are right, I don't know you - and you clearly know nothing about me. No matter.
15. They Will Always Be Messed Up
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (07.03.13)
This is their punishment for being against Israel and the Jews.
16. Arab Spring?
Zaba ,   Calif.   (07.03.13)
No, just a mild winter's day.
17. I support my Arab brothers in their pursuit of freedom
Jake ,   USA   (07.03.13)
I am worried that these protests are stirred up and guided by foreign powers, but if the end result is freedom and enlightenment for my fellow Abrahamic family members, I support this 100%.
18. #11 Bertram
DavidR ,   USA   (07.03.13)
If you had a clue about "classical philosophy" you would understand that there is No democracy in our world. There have been a few lousy attempts at it but all have failed. That is why the US, a Constitutional Republic, is now Socialist. and never has been a democracy.
19. shtooyoat! If THIS is 'spring'...what is WINTER!
meital ,   Jerusalem   (07.03.13)
Similar to bloodlust, there has been an addiction to rebellion fostered. I am NOT in favor of the Moslem Brotherhood...but I have seen rebellion before and it produces an 'energy' that frustrated, bored people become addicted to. This is NOT 'spring'!
20. YORAM: WHAT HAPPENS NOW IN EGYPT *IS* FURTHER DETERIORATION.
Nowhere Man ,   Metropolis, Zion.   (07.03.13)
21. Arab Spring still here
E ,   Los Angeles   (07.03.13)
Morsi should bring in some smart jews to help deal with the economy. my old man always said to have a jew as a doctor, accountant and if the need arises an attorney.
22. Arab spring will never become summertime..
Beary White ,   Norway   (07.03.13)
..due to the majority of islam.. In that sense, Egypt, will continue into the winter and stay there, as in other north-african states. Obama has lost his face, will loose interest, and turn his support from Egypt to al-Queda in Syria for better luck, whom he already supports with arms.
23. #21 totally delusional
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (07.04.13)
It is still Winter and most likely a failed Winter - without food or power and soon water. As for keeping Jews - the Egyptians ethnically cleansed just about every Jew over 50 years ago. They better treat the Copts better - they are the only ones that are working in Egypt
24. To No. 18
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.03.13)
Well, we can debate whether there is any real democracy in the world. What is pretty certain, however, is that the US is socialist, the Pope is Jewish, and the Moon is made of green cheese.
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