Opinion
Our own jihad in Mea Shearim
Shalom Freund
Published: 15.07.13, 10:14
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1. Words of peace
robert ,   antwerp belgium   (07.15.13)
This article is like a salve that heals rifts that are being caused by words from leaders , haredi as well as hiloni. It shows that, with God's help, common sense will prevail.
2. "Jihad"
Sagi   (07.15.13)
in this context is the appropriate word. Jihad is commonly decribed as "holy war". The actual meaning of the word is a struggle. It can be any kind of struggle. In the case of the Haredim, they are in a constant struggle. They deny reality, they deny basic human concepts, they adhere to a set of laws which, they know in their hearts, defy the laws of nature, and they attack, verbally or physically, anyone who attempts to gainsay their particular "ism". Yes, this is "Jihad", both in the common usage of the term and the correct meaning, they struggle on two fronts, internally and externally.
3. I'm afraid, if one sticks to religious dogma, than the"Path"
tom ,   tel aviv   (07.15.13)
is the right one. Religions must sooner or later be made to dissapear from the face of Earth: if not we're all toast. It is only the relatively small numbers of the Followers of the Imaginary Friend that make this type of behaviour seldom. Give them time and you won't be able to enter Jerusalem in a car on Shabbos and that's just the beginning. We all know where it's going: the haredi womb will do us in.
4. Awful
Itzchak ,   Jerusalem   (07.15.13)
"By remaining silent the community leaders - the rabbis, yeshiva heads and the admors - are allowing this horrific violence," The fact that there are crazies in every group is undoubtable, espescially in an intense religious environment, but that their leadership is silent and thus encourages this is truly awful.
5. Light in the darkness. May others illuminate Torah too.
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (07.15.13)
Moderate Orthodox by any other name... We'll now see if Herodim leaders follow their routine and slander Mr. Freund. BTW, I notice Ovadia Yosef's badatz stamp on a Pizza Hut flyer distributed in our neighborhood, but no indication on the flyer, or in the Pizza Hut website, that Pizza Hut is kasheir. What's going on there?
6. # Tom. When the womb wins
Sagi   (07.15.13)
and it shall, they will raise the flag and declare that "God" has won. There is no basic difference between the deep faith of Islam, Judaism and Catholicism, each one has caused untold suffering and shall continue to do so until Man comes to his senses. I am a strong believer that logic, in the end, will prevail, the destruction along the way is the problem.
7. # 4 Qui Tacet Consentire Videtur
Sagi   (07.15.13)
Silence must be seen as consent, is a basic principle of both Roman Law and English Common Law. Consenting to a crime is punishable equally as abetting or committing the crime. leaders guide the flock by words, actions and also by silence.
8. Religion?
LR ,   Afual, Israel   (07.15.13)
The problem with organized religion today is simply and complexly a complete lack of humility relative to "that" which we are all a part of. I'm referring to creation and none of us really understands how we got here or what it is we are really a part of. It's ok to not understand something so grand and omnipresent as creation. With a little more humility, we might learn to be more tolerant and admit that we're all lost and searching for answers. Personally, I have found inner peace by accepting my own insignificance in the great order of things and deeply understand that NOBODY speaks in the name of our Creator. Those that try to market such an ignorant position expose there own limitations and that of those who choose to follow them.
9. Sagi, we seem to agree, that taking present direction
tom ,   tel aviv   (07.15.13)
the Human Race seems to favour, meaning: doing absolutely nothing in the face of unbridled Islamic onslaught on the West, we are in for tough & unpleasant times ahead. "Man and His logic" cannot defeat the deep seated fears we humans harbour. We must somehow peek behind the curtain and show everybody, that the"Witch/God" is/are just some guys in funny clothes pulling strings. It is the irrational hope for something "Eternal" that feeds the flames of superstition and enables quacks & charlatans to thrive. At least we could've withheld fundings for "our" crazies, but that would've just slow them down.... it's like the Iranian Bomb: at the moment it seems inevitable.
10. It 's wrong to judge medicine and..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.15.13)
religion by it's charlatans.
11. 3 and 6
robert ,   antwerp belgium   (07.15.13)
As it goes religions are increasing in power. Better try to moderate them than finght against religion
12. I was raise din a Chassideshe yeshiva here in Montreal
Al   (07.15.13)
Today I look at these people as of they descended from Mars. They worship idolatry and not Judaism. Its all about their Rebbes their legacy and their families. Enough already..It's time that truly frum people take back our religion from these impostors.
13. 10 Correct: it's wrong to judge Judaism by the Herodim!!!
kippa seruga ,   Israel   (07.15.13)
14. 10 Ora, you are absolutedly right but ...
robert ,   antwerp belgium   (07.15.13)
in the case of medicine it is often easier to discover who is a charlatan because of the consequences while in religion it is not always clear except when religion is being used to hurt people.
15. Shalom Freund
Isaac hladoovsky ,   East Windsor, NJ   (07.15.13)
KOL HA?KAVOD. By the way, would someone enlighten me on the following: Was it ok for Jews, religious or otherwise, to serve in Joshua'd or King David's armies? I hope that Mr. Freund's position is widely accepted by the Hasidic community.
16. Real subconcsious feelings
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.15.13)
Mr. Freund is trying very hard to present himself as a balanced, logical religious person. Yet his real and deep feelings of superiority still show. This sentence: "Our soldiers, who did not find a place in the yeshivas and chose to enlist rather than deteriorate on the streets out of boredom..." is a dead give-away to his true subconscious feelings.
17. Sagi, Tom
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.15.13)
You both seem to expect the human animal to react logically when emotion is involved. I fear that you both underestimate the control that emotions have in the human animal - most especially in the undereducated human...
18. Hamas, Hezbollah, Haredim
Dan   (07.16.13)
It's heartening to hear even one Haredi speaking out against his brethren's intolerance. But even he believes he is here to 'safeguard the purity of the camp' and must 'protect the education of [his] children from the filth of the wild street'. Haredi intolerance is no different at all to Hezbollah or Hamas intolerance. The only difference is in the level of outward aggression - but that difference is beginning to blur.
19. Find something better to report on!
Ilan ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (07.16.13)
This is not news to any Israeli. every Israeli knows what mea sharim is and not to go there unless you belong! try going there wearing shorts, never-mind an army uniform. WoW, anyone not dressed modestly, same result.. you will meet an angry mob! so like i said, find something better to report on, this isn't news to anyone!
20. A voice in the darkness !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.16.13)
And Shalom Freund says what i wrote also more than once : as long as rabbanim , yeshiva leadres will not intervene this trend will continue , and amplify . Yes , for them it's the "exterior" that is important , not the interior as it should be by TRUE religious people . Sad that Shalom Freund is a lonely voice .
21. Religious coercion is aimed first and foremost at the religi
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.16.13)
A small group becomes powerful by coercing others into following it's dictates. It is time for Haredim like Shalom to fight back against the coerces and extremists. They needs to be a Charem(boycott) against the extremists and physically pushed out when they attempt to enter. It is up to the Haredim to sort out their own backyard and we hope you do it soon.
22. Are the Haridi really citizens?
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (07.16.13)
Their behavior shows that they in fact reject the modern sate of Israel. They keep themselves in isolated conclave, adhere to their set of rules as opposed to the law of the land. It is a dishonesty to consider them citizens of the modern state. We all would be best if they wee treated as some align sect and devoid of monetary support from the government which uses the funds of the real citizens
23. "worship a religion"
Tomer ,   Hod Hasharon, Israel   (07.16.13)
Author hits the nail on the head! The extremists are worshipping the religion rather than God. I hope they see the light sooner rather than later.
24. congrats
courtney ,   usa   (07.16.13)
you realized there is no difference between the two
25. Now he's concerned
Ken ,   Sharon, MA   (07.16.13)
Yes, he's a real upstander. Violent hate-filled mobs never bothered until "supposed" haredim targetted other haredim. "First they came for the Communists but I was not concerned because I am not a Communist."
26. Most important thing is to love one another.
Spread love!   (07.16.13)
27. Excellent - still, only one tiny babystep. Much left undone.
Sage of the Age ,   Israel   (07.17.13)
Sanctimonious dictatorial arrogance of presumptive rule must be crushed. Torah must not be displaced by the Displacement Theology of European Medievalism falsifying "Judaism." Cleaning up their act is an absolute necessity. But it doesn't cure their other shortcomings. Tolerance of their costumes is one thing. But substituting the fundamental principles of Torah with hollow rituals emptied of their connection to actual practice is avoda zara. Stopping their bullying doesn't remedy that whatsoever.
28. The answer...
frauss ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.13)
to Jewish extremists are Jewish moderates who must stand strong, be united and be outspoken. The problem is that extremists are thugs who use coercion, the opposite of who moderates are. But unless our Haridim want to become the Jewish version of Hamas. They better put a stop to the extremists right now.
29. Disagree with you -
Aviva ,   Beitar   (07.17.13)
Firstly, R' Gershon Edelstein has come out publicly against negative behavior towards chareidi chayalim and I believe that if the phenomenon continues other will, as well. Secondly, I do think that violent, extremist chareidim are both a minority and marginal. I once watched a chareidi man pushing a burning garbage can into the middle of the street. A few other chareidim promptly pushed it back to the side. Who did the photographers take pictures of? You guessed!
30. why the black European outfits
curious   (07.17.13)
Why not Jewish clothing I really don't understand I would have thought they would have gladly quit wearing those clothes and revert back to traditional clothing when they moved to Israel. Is it because they don't know what Jews used to wear? Please do not be nasty when answering.
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