Opinion  Aviad Kleinberg
Trick question
Aviad Kleinberg
Published: 24.07.13, 11:17
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31. Let the People decide over such Key Issue which would change
chris ,   Porthmadog-Wales UK   (07.24.13)
Let the People decide over such Key Issue which would change The Security of Israel and Once Israel accept An Arab state there it cannot be undone! How can asking the People to decide their Fate be an Obstacle to peace? Rubbish!
32. Referendum is a good idea.
A Yid ,   Jerusalem   (07.24.13)
If these negotiations are going to produce a good agreement for Israel, and true peace, then the voters will approve the deal in a referendum. But, if the agreement is bad for Israel, then it will be defeated at the polls. Because the left intends to capitulate in these talks, it is terrified of a referendum. There is another reason for a referendum. It prevents bribery and treason in the Knesset. Remember Oslo was passed because an MK was bought off with a car.
33. People will be dancing on the streets for a peace agreement.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.24.13)
This will be the most powerful "referendum." Mr. Bennett is rocking the boat right now in a display of political expediency. He will be for ratification of the peace agreement, I do not doubt it.
34. EGYPT CF ISRAEL !
FO ,   Belgium   (07.24.13)
Egypt went to so-called democratic elections with 65% of its population being illiterate. We all know the result. Now, imagine the Israeli population going to a referendum for an existential matter, 90% of them ignorant about the recent history, and legal rights of their country, thanks to professors like the author of this article, I learned to know, today, thanks to Internet! Little hope for the future with such "patriots".
35. democracy
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (07.24.13)
Why a referendum? Questions can be manipulated, ballots can be stuffed, opposition press can be shut down by Leftist courts. The US has a much better system: a 2/3s majority of the Senate. Imagine if Israel needed 80 MKs to ratify an agreement. Sharon and Rabin could have never bribed so many people. Instead, they would have had to negotiate a deal that really was good for Israel.
36. #35, Update your knowledge: it's faulty
Tom W ,   USA   (07.24.13)
In the U.S. the result of a referendum - or anything else that mirrors the will of people - can be invalidated by the subjective decision of one unelected judge. Got it?- One man/woman. The code word for the judge is: "That's unconstitutional"- off with it.. Hence "judge shopping" is popular: looking for a judge whose view is sympathetic to the plaintiff.
37. #33. Israelis to live in bomb shelters if deal approved.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.25.13)
If, heaven forbid, a "peace deal with Palestinians" is approved, some fools may dance in the street. The first night after approval of the deal. But very soon after that, all of Israel will live in bomb shelters. Because it would be an absolute disaster for Israel, like every other deal with "Palestinian" poseurs. But even worse.
38. Approval of the Torah Sages
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (07.25.13)
When 'Land for Peace' was first mooted, most Torah sages, aside from Rabbi Schneersohn, accepted the policy. Only when it became clear that the more land we gave the less peace we got in return that many Sages changed their mind. Every time an Israeli PM like Barak or Olmert offered major concessions, the PLO made greater and more unrealistic demands such as the right of return for millions of descendants of Artabs who left Israel in 1948. However willing Bibi may be the 'other side' will make it impossible to finalise any solution.
39. A Piece of Theatre Drama
Norbus ,   JERUSALEM   (07.25.13)
Arabs Jahelis { Ignorant } converted to Islam { often under the sword } developed ingrained resentment of others who refused to convert. Medina Jews bore brunt of Jews rejection Mohammed and were banished out or slaughtered. Arabs are now drawn into regressive fundamentalism away from an age of general enlightenment following 5 centuries of Ottoman domination and Mullahs keeping them in the dark. Given the struggle, Arab government are afraid to step out of line, having used Arabs who went to seek work in Ottoman Palestine, as whipping dog to hoodwink the surf like populations whilst enriching themselves. Britain and France divide and rule put petrol on flames. Unless All Arabs agree to give up an agent provocateur they used for ages to hoodwink their population, nothing beyond a Hudna is possible . Peace is impossible whilst Islam remains fundamentally unreformed. Let us not fall for Obama Anarchy or Leftist fantasies .
40. Yes Referendum to be set aside by atwo thirds majority
Martin SA   (07.25.13)
Yes Referendum to be set aside by a two thirds majority a political solution of 2/3rd majority can set aside a referendum. This way the negotiators need representation of all stakeholders and with all interests represented. 600,000 Jews in Yesha must also have their say. Politicians represented in a coalition which cant be trusted or fully representative for such a decision also Holy City of Jerusalem needs Hareidi consent as well YES!!! and Why not? A person sitting in the comfort of TA or Ra’anana shouldn’t land up ignoring the pain of people in Yesha or Yrshlm etc. for the sake some arab marauders whose objective is a strategic one to the control all long term.
41. #30 that is a matter of opinion
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.25.13)
Haven't seen too many people wailing and weeping over the peace deal with Jordan, the deal with Egypt split the Arab world to Israel's obvious advantage and Gaza is one of the beetter places in the world NOT to be (though I did enjoy the beaches). When we have a referendum everyone can decide for themselves whether it's good or not.
42. You are right
SAM ,   Petach Tikva, Israel   (07.25.13)
Cut this crap. I want a Torah State now!
44. Bibi can remove all ministers who will vote
(07.25.13)
against him (Sharon trick). Then give the rest mercedes and take a vote. He is as tricky as Sharon before he went into coma.
45. #36 Update your knowledge: it's faulty"
No brainer ,   Israel   (07.25.13)
Every opinion by a federal court in the U.S. except a decision of the U.S. Supreme Court can be appealed to a higher court so it is incorrect to say that the subjective decision of a single judge can invalidate the result of a referendum. Israel does not have a constitution.
46. I have a better idea ,...
split ,   US   (07.25.13)
To avoid any risk why don't you hold this referendum in settlements only? ;) ,...
47. # 43 ,...
split ,   US   (07.25.13)
May I add that the League of Nations was a joke to start with ,...
48. #46. You are way off
Tom W ,   USA   (07.25.13)
Check out the story of California "Proposition 8" plebiscite as an example. The news are rife with daily writing about this and that judge invalidated or put on hold laws that he/she didn't like. Not every case will be dealt in the Supreme Court, most will be decided at lower level.
49. #47. What's wrong with you Polak?
Tom W ,   USA   (07.25.13)
Your people killed or chased away all Jews in Poland, there are almost nobody left there. Poland is "Judenfrei" - what's the reason that you now tenaciously coming after us in Asia - from America? The vicious Antisemitism that you put here 24/7 is your only raison d'être?
50.  Re #4 Make today the day you actually
On the Balcony ,   Akko/NY/Kyiv   (07.25.13)
read the Mandate. It is obvious that you need to read it rather than, say, Howard Grief's analysis because, like others, Howard simply ignored or distorted those parts of the Mandate he didn't like. For example, he ignores the fact that the country to be created under the Mandate was named Palestine; he ignores the numerous and explicit protections the Mandate gives to the Palestinian-Arabs; he ignores the fact that the mandate could be changed by a vote of the League of Nations (later, the UN GA). He dismisses the very powerful argument that the Partition Plan, far from being a simple resolution, constitutes an amendment to the Mandate which left Jerusalem internationalized and allotted all of the WB to the Palestinian-Arabs... etc., etc... Just read Art 15: "No discrimination of any kind shall be made between the inhabitants of Palestine on the ground of race, religion or language" No discrimination of any kind? If the Mandate were still in effect then our National Anthem itself would be a violation. I'm tired of refuting your propaganda so please make today the day you read the Mandate and then the Churchill White Paper and then Chaim Weizmann’s response to the White Paper.
51. 49 - Your people killed or chased away all Jews in Poland,
split ,   US   (07.25.13)
Not the Germans? Your murdered homies are turning in their graves reading idiots like you ,... Why there were more Jews in pre- WWII Poland than in the rest of Europe? ,... BTW. no one invited you there ,...
52. #41. No rational case Israel benefited from ceding Sinai.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.25.13)
One simply can't make a rational case that Israel benefited from ceding the Sinai. Think of all Israel's current problems and worries about the situation in Egypt. We would have NOTHING to worry about if we still had the SInai. Moreover, Israel would be far more secure due to the huge military and strategic advantage of the SInai. Israel would be much richer due to the oil and tourist wealth of the Sinai. Virtually all Israel's problems and dangers arise from ceding liberated lands we had every right to keep forever. Moeover, our enemies, in Iran and elsewhere, could not think of Israel as a "one bomb" state if we had the Sinai.
53. 48 ,...
split ,   US   (07.25.13)
Proposition 8 didn't trample Geneva Conventions and international treaties ,...
54. #51.split: Czarina Catherine the Great
Tom W ,   USA   (07.26.13)
The Russian Czarina created the "Pale of Settlement" (Черта́ осе́длости) in 1791. In the decree Jews were compelled to stay West from Russia proper, that territory encompassed the Baltics, part of Poland etc. (see the maps). That's is the reason why the majority of Eastern Jews were concentrated in Poland. By order of Czarina Catherine II. and nothing to do with the backward Poles. #53. You post is nonsense: it has nothing to do with Israel, it's merely explains the absolute power of the American Judicial system over the will of the majority.
55. referendum
Cipora Julianna Kohn   (07.26.13)
when a sovereign state decides to give up part of its territory to a hostile group of people, it is necessary that the decision be approved by the people as a whole.
56. To No. 52
Betram ,   London, UK   (07.26.13)
Chaim, you don't go far enough. Since Jews lived for centuries in what is now Iraq and Saudi Arabia, Israel should take over these lands. Think of the security it would bring! And the oil! The IDF might be a bit stretched but since they won all those wars they can do anything!
57. # 54 - "Jews were compelled to stay West from Russia" ,...
split ,   US   (07.27.13)
So, why didn't they move to more 'civilised' western Europe instead of 'backward' Poland ? ,... Those backward Poles got their Constitution decades ahead of other European nations only 4 years after first one in modern world, US ,...
58. Referendum in Cyprus
Non Jewish immigrant   (07.27.13)
In 2004 there was also a referendum for peace in Cyprus between Turkish and Greek Cypriots. The result was astonishing ! The Turks wanted peace whereas the Greek didn't and it had catastrophic repercussion for the Greek Cypriots who got severe sanctions for not supporting a peace process. Same thing might happen here. The result of a referendum for peace process between Israelis and Palestinians could be really surprising if the outcome was to be similar to Cyprus. What would happen of Palestinians were to vote YES and Israelis NO?
59. #56. Israel had no obligation to cede Sinai.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.27.13)
#56. You're obviously trying to be sarcastic. However, Israel liberated the Sinai and, as the victor in a defensive war, had no obligation to cede it. Like every Israeli retreat, Israel's Sinai retreat is an unmitigated disaster. Obviously the I.D.F. never made it to Iraq and Saudi Arabia. So there is no logic in your comparison.
60. #58. Are you selling your Islamic wares?
Tom W ,   USA   (07.27.13)
No. Cyprus has been forcefully occupied by the Turkish army and repopulated the land with imported mainland Turks. Of course Turks want "peace" that would legitimize their illegal occupation that no country but Turkey recognizes. What sort crap are you selling here? What the hell are you Muslim doing in Israel: London, Paris is more for you than the pesky Jews...
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