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Comment posted, damage done: Online battle for Israel's hasbara
Eyal Lehmann
Published: 18.09.13, 19:04
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31. Talkback
God'sway   (09.19.13)
If talk backers stop posting then stones will shout. How old is the earth – was the earth born in 1967 to believe Palestinian lies? So leftist can even throw Jewish calendar into bin - but servants will never rule over masters.
32. #20 Chaim, please stop
Samuel ,   Melbourne   (09.19.13)
Why do you still say that "1,100 international law scholars recently presented the E.U. with proof Israel owns Judea and Samaria"? I've previously shown you that this was clearly not the case. Your source is probably Israel Hayom. They reported that 1,100 jurists, rabbis and diplomats urged the EU to recscind a funding ban on settlements. Please understand that rabbis are not international law experts and very rarely (if ever) have any background in international law. So, we're not dealing with 1,100 international law scholars. Furthermore, saying that the EUs settlement boycott is legally flawed is NOT the same as providing proof that Israel owns Judea and Samaria. A petition is not 'proof'. Proof exists only in mathematics. Please don't misuse the word. If you mean 'evidence', a petition is only evidence that a number of people agree/disagree with a certain issue. Petitions rarely go into evidence or make any sort of argument. Instead, they just show you how many people agree with a particular statement (which is usually the title of the petition) In the future, do not spread lies or misinformation. This is the very reason hasbara initiatives exist, so that people like you can be exposed.
33. Which truth will eventually win?
tiki ,   belgium   (09.19.13)
The truth! Most of those so called ''pro Palestinian 'experts/talk backers/posters are just total ignorant's/Jew haters or both. Giving them a platform on the social media makes them way to important. You don't ask an illiterate his opinion about prose and you don't make the Palestinian problem the most prominent item in the world. Fighting this war in the social media won't better the '''terrible''' situation of one Palestinian and reveals the conflict for what it is..........a virtual obsession.
34. #16
Rhonda ,   Chicago, USA   (09.19.13)
Yea, I saw that show too. I watched as much of it as I could but then couldn't take the bias after a long day and just decided to go to bed. Occasionally that happens to me. As you know, there was nil context provided for so much of the provocative statements. I posted on Facebook about it.
35. #1
(09.19.13)
I'm out here doing the same thing you are only from this side of Atlantic. I too wish I could have that job you describe. I've been looking for 2+ years without success. Or actually any job that puts me into Israel Advocacy or Israel Education. In the meantime I do what I can...
36. One sure fire way to stop it:
Never a Dull Moment ,   USA   (09.19.13)
The way to stop the lies fast is to get a few good teams of sharp teethed attorneys, let them make whatever % they want, and have them institute absolutely massive liable and slander suits against the various media and writers who knowingly and negligently publish the lies. I promise you a few good finacial wipe outs and the entire industry will cut this nonsense out. The legal fees alone will be astronomical enough to cause the media to be far more prudent and careful to check the facts and vet the sources.
37. 9
(09.19.13)
this is YOUR "TRUTH", BUT IT IS NOT THE REALITY ON THE GROUND. JUST BECAUSE YOU PREFER YOUR TRUTH TO THE ACTUAL TRUTH, RENDERS YOU AND YOUR OPINION OF THE TRUTH IRRELEVANT.
38. @9
(09.19.13)
EDITHANN, you are completely uninformed, not intelligent enough to look at the reality of what israel really is. you are also grossly uneducated and misinformed about issues you have no clue about. you are also in possession of a small brain that is also unable to discern truth from fiction. i suggest that you educate yourself on what is really going on because it has zero to do with what you are claiming. you are so pathetically stupid and ignorant that it hurts, and i am telling you this as a muslim iranian who did visit israel on multiple occasions and seen how people like yourself distort reality, lie and obfuscate constantly and have no clue whatsoever about israel and the arabs that live in that region. hameed aboughaze, iranian los angeles
39. Yes, we will go on squashing the antisemitic vermin that
tom ,   tel aviv   (09.19.13)
pollutes face of this planet. We'll do it in spite of our own Judeo-Quislings and other assorted travellers of the Israeli Left. We have no other choice: our children live here! They will go on living in a free, liberated Israel.
40. Anti-Semitic posts
stephen ,   beer sheva israel   (09.19.13)
I have been blogging for years in the "Economist" which is inundated with anti Israel and anti Jewish posts. Some of these posts are blatantly anti-Semitic but the 'Economist" refuses to remove them although posts on other subjects will be removed immediately if offensive. Is there anything that can be done against this bias?
41. hasbara
rm ,   Amsterdam NL   (09.19.13)
I believe that Israel has a right to exist...I do not however believe that Israel has a right to exist without borders treating 'disputed' land as a take all you like-buffet. What I see in modern Israel is a growing intolerance for ANY kind of critisism or any suggestion that there might be something really wrong with what Israel...or atleast some Israelis are doing in the Westbank. Yes I know that once it was all Jewish and I know the bond with the land is strong...but times change and you cannot act as if nothing has happened since. The conflict with the palestinians is at heart a simple one.....about land. I know that it is made incredibly complicated by things that happened since 1967. The positions of both Israel and the Palestinians have hardened.And yes nowadays Jihad is a factor too. But I don't believe that justice is 100% at Israel's side and that has happened since I started educating myself. I read both narratives and I'm no longer fooled by any amount of hasbara thrown my way... I think that if anything this mindless defense of Israel no matter what is in the end what causes the most damage and prevents any kind of compromise.
42. (28) 100% right!
tiki ,   belgium   (09.19.13)
Giving this haters a platform for their hatred is giving them oxygen to grow. Stop reacting and their "fun" is gone. They care for the Palestinians as much as Assad cares for his people! One should only respond to hate articles by correcting with proven arguments if mistakes are made. Then stop! No arguing or discussing because you can't make pigs fly anyway.
43. To no.9, Tata the Edithan
Samuel   (09.19.13)
If calling you an anti-Semite is not an option, if calling you a Holocaust denier is also not an option, the only option left is calling you a little ignorant, half-brained, mean and stupid vermin. Had you taken your human duty to visit Israel and see for yourself the simple reality of life here, including all Arabs and other citizens living under the Israeli skies, you could have saved yourself a lot of trouble from being a pathetic slanderer. Not anti-Semite, if you don't want me to call you one, but overwhelmingly qualifying as ONE.
44.  the (5 year old!) boy was "merely" detained
Albrecht ,   EU   (09.19.13)
To detain - even "merely" - a 5 year child is always sick. You people never get it.
45. #36 never a dull moment
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (09.19.13)
Problem with that is Article 1 of the Constitution. Unlike Israel the United States has freedom of speech. Not to mention the repercussions for Israel when it is seen to be litigation against criticism of it's government's policies.
46. #41 Interesting post, rm...
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (09.19.13)
However, you are missing an important part of the equation. Religion...it's not just a legal and political issue. . In fact, if you Google Dr Jacques Gauthier and watch the interview concerning his monumental Ph.D on 'Who owns Jerusalem', I think you'll understand why Israel has to act and do as she does. Get back to us ; )
47. Edithann, how do you explain non-Jews who support Israel?
Gobbo   (09.19.13)
How do you account for all the non-Jewish internet warriors for Israel, like the German citizen described in the article? They don't defend Israel using the arguments you disparage. Your theory about Jews thinking they have a monopoly on truth falls apart when one realizes that many non-Jews see through the propaganda that has the anti-Israel majority hypnotized. You'd rather smugly claim to be on the side of righteousness and truth, because it's far too painful for you to accept that you're one of the multitudes of dupes who willingly imbibe the media's poison.
48. #38 Thank you for supporting Israel
Stan ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
Unfortunately almost all your comments about Edithann are inaccurate or untrue. In fact I agree with almost everything she has written. I am a pragmatic Zionist and have lived in Israel for over 50 years, my children and grandchildren also live in Israel. You, like #1 , use the word "truth" I am sure that you know as well as I do, that in any conflict both sides have their "truth". eg When I came to Israel in 1961, I was told that "the Arabs who had left their towns and villages in 1948 did so as instructed by their leaders" Years went by and I learned (from Israeli Zionists} that about half those refugees were actually expelled from their homes by the advancing Israeli army. So you see that some of what I was told in 1961 was true, but some was false. It is true that since 1920 the Jews have expressed a willingness to compromise on a partition of Palestine and the Arabs continually rejected this. The situation today is that SOME Jews and SOME Arabs are prepared to accept a Two State solution while there are still many Jews and Arabs who want one state between the Jordan River and the sea. So what's your solution to the problem?
49. # 33 tiki
Stan ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
46 years of occupation has caused this "obsession" The great philosopher Yeshiyahu Leibowitz said in 1967, that this occupation will destroy Jewish Moral Integrity. Unfortunately he has been proven correct one hundred thousand times.
50. #41 Have you actually read the article?
Tahl   (09.19.13)
As I have said earlier here, if all the critics had actually bothered to read the article, they'd notice that these hasbara activists do not justify anything Israel does, they just clean up the muck and correct some distortions. There is certainly a room for a cultured, civilized and informative debate about what needs to be done for the sake of peace, from both sides. Nobody implied that Israel is beyond any criticism. However statements like "Hitler should come back and destroy you", "Israel is doing to the Palestinians what the Germans did to them", and blatant blood-libels like Israel massacring Palestinian families every day, performing ethnic cleansing, genocide, aiding the Jihadists in Syria - are certainly not a part of such cultured debate. All they do is smear and demonize Israel, poison the minds of unsuspecting people, and create an intensely anti-Israel (and often antisemitic) atmosphere, all based on lies and blind hatred. Again, this is not a part of a cultured and informative debate, and this is where the hasbara activists come to the picture - to clean up the muck.
51. #32 Samuel. Your definition of hasbara is nuts.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
Samuel, after reading your post, one question comes to mind. What is your definition of hasbara? It appears to be exposing Israel's friends as liars. Which is about as nutty a definition of hasbara as one could possibly formulate. Your statement that "proof exists only in mathematics" is news to Western legal systems which mostly require "proof beyond reasonable doubt" for conviction. The fact remains that Israel's legal ownership of Judea and Samaria is rock solid. It has been incontrovertibly proven by such luminaries as Eugene Rostow and other creators of U.N. Resolution 242 and Professor David M. Phillips, Western University School of Law. Moreover, the P.A. tacitly agrees and that is why it refuses to debate the issue. MK Danny Ayalon challenged them to.
52. Imagery
flagburner ,   JPN   (09.19.13)
"..we are David all over again, and the Arabs – Goliath. " No, there's no Goliath except your heart, Mr. Lehmann.
53. Settlements
Bill Stein ,   USA   (09.19.13)
I support settlements and I believe that is important to fight for them because its the legal right religious right security rights for them to be exist. 40 years of defending Israel in Israel , on campus and on the Internet. Let me give the so call doubters this advice. First it was Gaza then now the settlements they are using for justification of the hate speech next it is Israel itself I don't want to be drawn in and have to start arguments with your team instead of tge haters every doubt you seed is a victory for the Israel haters and seeds doubt in the minds of the public in the existence of Israel You will be doing more harm than good.
54. #49 Stan
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (09.19.13)
I disagree It hasn't destroyed Jewish moral integrity, it has destroyed The Zionist moral integrity. What the Zionists have done, is not in the name of the Jewish religion, they would like to tell you it is but it isn't. Zionism is a nationalist political movement, it is not a religion
55. #47 Gobbo
Ivor evenbiggergun   (09.19.13)
On the Internet you can be anyone. I could describe myself as an Arabic transsexual lesbian dwarf, and you'd have to accept it at face value.
56. 48.
Shame ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
You are a pragmatic naive old man who does not belong in Israel. The utopia you are looking for does not exist. Go back to South Africa.
57. #49 Stan. You have strong drive towards self destruction.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
From a legal stand point, there is no rational case for Israel ceding Judea and Samaria. No state has a stronger claim on its land than Israel has on Judea and Samaria. From the standpoint of Israel's survival; it is obvious to any literate school child, who can read a map, that Judea and Samaria are vital for Israel's survival. Without Judea and Samaria, we've got a 9 mile wide concentration camp with more than 6 million Jewish inmates. So what really drives leftists like you? I submit it is profound discomfort with any form of Jewish power and a strong drive towards self destruction.
58. (49) Stan,
tiki ,   belgium   (09.19.13)
Your comment makes it look like on a bright morning 46 years ago, Israel decided unilaterally to cross the border with Jordan and ''occupy'' the old Jewish land of Judea & Samaria, including half of it's capital Jerusalem (lost in the 1948 war, to which I don't hear any comment from your side). You know (but maybe you don't) and I know that that's not the case. Israel was invaded by the Jordanian army (after Israel begged them to stay out of the conflict) in which they than lost the occupied territory to the only rightful owners.....Israel. The rest (trying to come to an arrangement with the Arab Palestinians) was/is as simple as trying to put the Genie back into the bottle, because one can bring horses to the water but not force them to drink. Leibowitz was a philosopher. I have heard him speak many times but, philosophy is a luxury not every country or person can afford because often it's overtaken by the harsh realities of live. That has been proven to.
59. Hasbara should start at home
Edmond Silber ,   Montreal   (09.19.13)
Hasbara should start at home. All these organisations: •Combatants for Peace, •Machsom Watch • B’tselem, •Shalom Akhchav, •Gush Shalom,•Women in Black•Bat Shalom•Chovrim Chetiqa •Yesh Din•Bimkom•Adala •Hamoked •Moussawa •Ometz Lesarev •Hadash •Meretz Starting from a good feeling and willing to spread justice, these organizations do not realize the harm they're doing to Israel. Israel's enemies do not need to invent anything, they have only to take the words of those Israelis good thinking organizations to distort reality and do much harm to the country.
60. #51 Chaim
Samuel ,   Melbourne   (09.19.13)
My definition of hasbara cannot be nuts as I never defined it. I understand that it means 'explanation' and is an effort by Zionists to counter misleading/false claims made by anti-Israel activists about the Jewish state. I accuse you of being just as deceptive as these anti-Israel activists because of your false claims about the petition. The fact that Danny Ayalon challenged the PA to a debate which they refused is disappointing, but it does not mean that Ayalon wins by default. Why would you debate someone that you cannot take seriously? All your doing at this point is appealing to authority. You can list a few individuals who believe that Israel's occupation is in accordance with international law. Just as easily, I can list experts who think that a retreat to the 1967 borders is required...Finkelstein, Chomsky and Sesley (to name a few Jews). Name dropping (like I just did) is an ineffective ploy and shows me that you are clutching at straws. You need a very strong case to show that Israel rightfully owns the occupied territories. The UN, EU and International Court of Justice remain unconvinced for very good reasons. Because Israel have NO right to the territories, only a military edge on weak Muslim neighbours. You are the one making the claim, so the onus is on you to show that Israel owns those territories....which you have not got close to doing.
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