South Africa’s real lesson for Israel
Rafael Castro
Published: 19.09.13, 11:37
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1. apartheid 'lesser evil' than socialism?!
Concerned Jew   (09.19.13)
This is by far the most conservative peice of crock I have read to date. Not only that the argument itself is based on the notion that both africans and palstinains are not responsible for their actions and hence it falls on the shoulders of their occupiers to decide their fate - it also makes the claim that racial discrimination is morally 'ok' if it prevents... wait for it... socialism. The comparison to Israel sounds more like a threat from the mouth of a timid mouth piece who knows his masters funds and energies are running low.
2. This "change of heart" would imply changing Islam and that's
tom ,   tel aviv   (09.19.13)
something that just isn't done. End of story, end of "Palestine". Jordan Now! -Actually THAT should be our new motto and not Peace Now!
3. Mr,
David ex SA ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
4. Mr. Castro: Have you ever been to South Africa?
David ex SA ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
Have you watched any of the recent reports on South Africa on the BBC and SKYNews? Did you see the despair on the face of former South African Anti-Apartheid activist, Peter Hain MP (Labour UK) is his BBC interview after his trip to your "the vibrant multiracial democracy we know nowadays", South Africa? The vast majority of Blacks are living in squalor, the same squalor I remember seeing day in day out from the age of 8 until 40 when I left SA. President Zuma bult a R203 million "homestead" with his "own" money. That was his answer to Peter Hain? So where did he get R203 million (£13 million)? The only difference from the Apartheid era to today, is while that there are still wealthy "Whites" but now a new minority of wealthy "connected Blacks" and the rest are still in the mire they have lived in since the days of the British Colonies! As for your "democracy" claim, please ask Julius Malema, arrested by Zuma's gang of thugs on trumped up charges because he opposed Zuma's Putin like leadership! As far a the Palestinians are concerned, the vast majority of the Black people of Africa would love to live like the "poor people of the State of Palestine"!
5. If colonization and apartheid not so bad
Non Jewish immigrant ,   Haifa   (09.19.13)
Then neither was the third reich after all!
6. #1:So it is of "no concern" to you, that both Arabs&Africans
tom ,   tel aviv   (09.19.13)
are yet to produce a viable democratic culture on their own; it figures since you must insist on the "Equality of Cultures & Values" mantra so beloved by your Socialist Kind. Yes, socialism and Islam are two of humanity's main achievements. Get a brain, mensch....
7. #1, learn to read
Danny   (09.19.13)
It will open your eyes to a whole new world.
8. Arab-Israeli Peace
Henry ,   Manila, Philippines   (09.19.13)
There can be no peace between Arabs and the sons of Jacob - not today, not in a 100 years or until Christ Jesus returns.
9. Fear based decisions are ALWAYS wrong.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
The author makes many good points although he should not pay lip service to the "occupation" lie. Judea and Samaria legally belong to Israel. Fear based decisions are always wrong. That is why mobsters try to instill fear in their prospective victims. Just like Israel's enemies, and leftists, try to scare Israel into doing stupid, self destructive things. Nobody was under more pressure to submit to Hitler than Churchill. But Churchill had the courage to do the right thing. Any politician who is not able to resist pressure and do the right thing for Israel is unfit to lead Israel. Period.
10. Right-wing drivel
Eldar ,   Haifa   (09.19.13)
Why does Y-Net continually post op-eds from rightwingers that attempt to teach the left "moral lessons" about the occupation. One is enough. They are all reformulations of the same basic argument. In the end the day, the occupation is a sin that we are responsible for - whether there are worse examples is irrelevant. Clean your own house.
11. We must end the occupations
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.19.13)
First deport the illegal Jordanian colonists from our lands of Judea and Samaria. Then deport the illegal Egyptian fascists from our land of Gaza. We will then not have to worry about the problem and we will have peace
12. #10. Proud of liberation of Judea and Samaria.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
#10. Israel has had enough Oslos, enough freeing murderers, enough lunatic retreats...enough of all the self destructive idiocy which is all leftists like you have to offer. Polls show the vast majority of Israel appreciates and supports Judea and Samaria. Not only do Judea and Samaria legally belong to Israel. They are vital for Israel's survival. A fact which is obvious to any school child who can read a map.
13. #9 Judea and Samaria Don't Legally Belong To Israel.
World Citizen ,   the world   (09.19.13)
Your own holy book, the Torah, says that your G_d (no one else's god) gave the land to the blood of Abraham (the Israelites). Ninety percent of the Jews living in Palestine don't have one drop of Israelite blood in them. They are Ashkenazim i.e. Khazars from Russia. Those are the facts so quit claiming that modern "Jews" own it.
14. #13 is absolutely correct. No matter
how much hasbara or bull, the so-called Kazhar jjews have NO connection to the Ancient Jews, other than religion. Most of the original Jews were not part of the diaspora, the majority of Jews stayed, converted and assimilated with the majority population, be it Greek, Roman, Arab or Ottoman.
15. 13 and 14
Jake ,   Haifa   (09.19.13)
It is people like 13 and 14, with their absurd deligitimization efforts, that make one understand why we must be on guard. Did god give the land to the Arabs, 13 and 14? Did god give Los Angeles to the Mexicans or Anglos? We are here and now - we don't care who you think god gave land to - whatever heaven did, WE have the land and WE will do whatever we need to in order to defend ourselves. BTW, Muslims recognize conquest as a legitimate way of taking land - perhaps we will justify it that way. Fair enough.
16. #13. Why no debates on Jews ownership of Judea/Samaria.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
Nobody has more to gain by disproving Jewish ownership of Judea and Samaria than the P.A. Yet the P.A. absolutely REFUSES to debate the issue. MK Danny Ayalon challenged the P.A. to debate it publicly. There is a reason NONE of Israel's enemies want to debate this issue. Israel's ownership of Judea and Samaria is legally incontrovertible. Israel's enemies know this so they engage in demonization, lying, blackmail...anything but honest debate.
17. To Chaim
Luiz Felipe Haddad ,   Niteroi, Brazil   (09.19.13)
Chaim, excuse me, but Israel will not be dangered if there are safed and redrawed borders among Her and Arab Palestinian New State.
18. "lesser evil" than failed stated!
Daniel ,   St. Petersburg   (09.19.13)
apartheid 'lesser evil' than socialism?! Where did you get that? Maby you did not read closely enough or you are deliberately twisting the words. Author put it quite clear: "had South Africans been granted universal voting rights in the 1960s or 1970s - South Africa today would resemble contemporary Tanzania and Zimbabwe". Don't you think that apartheid is much better than total collapse?
19. Let me tell readers that this article is correct as far as
Alan ,   SA   (09.19.13)
its references to SA is concerned. Also the last paragraph is worth noting. As all over the world today the gap between rich and poor in SA is certainly large.But SA is an African Country with that continents vices and virtues. I dont foresee blood and revolutions by Mr Malema or anyone else.,though crime and corruption is certainly a problem now and into the future. The Middle Class is expanding daily and that is a stabilising force. The Pals have a cheek in comparing SA to Israel...and demanding the same pathway for Israel.There is no resemblance between those two.
20. To Luiz Felipe Haddad
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.19.13)
Where have we heard is "Israel will not be dangered if there are safed and redrawed borders among Her and Arab Palestinian New State." before? Oh right with Gaza. Now some 15,000 rockets later it is much more dangerous than in any previous time. Thanks - but we are not going to gamble our lives on your opinion. The illegal Jordanian colonists occupying our lands have to go
21. #17 Luiz. Judea/Samaria belongs to Israel.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.19.13)
#17 Luiz. I must disagree with you. Israel would be mortally endangered if she is dumb enough to allow a hostile new state to arise in the very heart of our tiny land. Just look at a map. Even more to the point is the fact that Israel rightfully owns Judea and Samaria.
22. Checkmate!
John Prophet   (09.20.13)
The deal is taking shape, Syria and Iran will both promise to play nice and re-enter the world community. Syria will give up some and hide some of its CW. Iran will come close but for now not cross the red line. American and Russia will promise to hold both Iran and Syria’s feet to the fire to make sure they comply. And Israel will use the old Ronald Reagan line of “trust but verify” and insist some strong verifiable system be put in place to ensure Iran and Syria don’t cheat. After that, Israel can keep on as fortress Israel as it’s been doing for years. This castles, however, is built of and on sand and could easily collapse in the slightest squall, but it’s the best deal Israel will get from the international community. The pressure will then redouble on Israel to give itself away to the Palestinians now that “Israel’s security has been ensured”. Netanyahu must now wish he did something about Iran years ago, for now the State of Israel will forever have the sword of Damocles over hanging its head. Israel will have no choice but to comply, if the world has convinced itself it made “peace in our time” and Israel goes and mucks it up by attacking Iran, Israel WILL becomes the worlds Pariah! Checkmate!
23. Chaim is Ynets BEST commentator !
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (09.20.13)
I agree 100 % !
24. Where's Winston
John Prophet   (09.20.13)
The whole equation is now tilting away from Israel. The world will make “peace in our time” then pat itself on the back for doing so. Israel follied in its trust and in its reticence to its own defence. “If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” Winston Churchill. Pity, Israels Winston Churchill never showed up!
25. 13.
Birdi ,   Israel   (09.20.13)
For heavens sake do check your facts before you post drivel here. You are boring us with your opinions.
26. 23.
Birdi ,   Israel   (09.20.13)
So true. Chaim has all the correct information at his fingertips.
27. #23/26. Thank you. We all need to do our part.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.20.13)
The saddest thing about the dangers Israel faces today is they are mostly all self inflicted. Israel's enemies would be virtually harmless if leftists didn't empower them. For instance, the genocidal PLO was dead until Shimon Peres brought it back to life and called it a "peace partner". The result was the Oslo Catastrophe. Israel's government routinely does things so lunatic, no other state in human history would even think about doing them. Such as showering our enemies with money, materials, food, electricity... The real problem is not Israel's enemies. The real problem is stopping the lunatic leftists who empower them. We all need to do our part.
28. Chaim is a good representative of the political right.
Eldar ,   Haifa   (09.20.13)
Just like talkbackers like the commentators that post and re-post the same incitement against the Israeli left, Chaim is very good with [his interpretation] of the facts. Of course if you are in favor of the occupation, then you assemble all the necessary data to support your argument. Good as he may be, he is tragically mistaken, and he and his kin are destroying the "third temple".
29. #28. No more excuses for Israeli concessions/retreats.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.20.13)
#28 Eldar. One simply can't make a sane argument for abandoning Israel's more than 3,500 year old ancestral heartland and turning Israel into a 9 mile wide concentration camp. Moreover, Israel's legal ownership of Judea and Samaria is so air tight, nobody even wants to debate it. Not even the P.A., which refused MK Danny Ayalon's challenge to do so. On top of all this, every single Israeli concession and retreat is a complete disaster. There are no more excuses left for Israeli concessions and retreats.
30. 29.
Birdi ,   Israel   (09.21.13)
No sane person can argue with your very logical & sound post.
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