Jewish Scene
Modesty signs reach central Jerusalem
Moshe Heller
Published: 15.10.13, 14:53
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1. Modesty
Lee Lipman ,   Leeds   (10.15.13)
Israel is a Jewish but secular country. The Haredi community are trying to make it into a religious state with separate buses and modesty police for women. A woman who wears a t shirt and jeans in Tel Aviv should be able to wear the same in Jerusalem without fear of Haredi. attack. Enough already, live and let live but do not impose your views on others otherwise we lose the freedom and democracy we treasure.
2. The Haredi are Israel's Taliban
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (10.15.13)
and unfortunatly as we saw in Iran in 1979 and Afghanistan in the 80's Israel's ruling elite are either powerless or unwilling to confront them. Netanyahu is playing an extremely dangerous game in his pursuit of keeping his name on the Prime Minister's Office door. He appears to love Ice Cream more than the long term viability of Israel.
3. Modesty signs reach central Jerusalem
Lazerbenabba ,   London, England   (10.15.13)
Welcome to the new Iran/Saudi Arabia et al. When will these self appointed deciders of what is modest realise that their actions are self defeating
4. HaShem gave men free will !
Jewgirl ,   Israel   (10.15.13)
so who is insisting on this modesty stuff is not god and only wants to inflict their power on woman.. Nobody is telling me what I can wear or not and what is modest or not...Rebbi Nachman said somebody should not be a fanatic...
5. I am Haredi/Chassidish and don't care to be lumped together
L ,   Merkaz   (10.15.13)
with every nudnik who scribbles on a sheet of cheap loose-leaf paper. Not every Haredi person is a stone-thrower, contrary to the notion ynet likes to perpetuate. Thank you for at least quoting a Haredi man who disagrees with the scribbled note. This whole "uproar" over the "Darkies"/boogeyman invading is probably nothing more than a news-starved paper culling their "news" from one woman's facebook post. Stop demonizing Haredim. There are crazies and fringe-elements, but overall most of us believe that G-d gave us free will to choose what we do with our lives; who are we to say otherwise?
6. coercion
Larry ,   LA   (10.15.13)
it seems we are all for Gays rights to parade through out the streets and do their thing but when a religious person wants to do their thing it is offensive. This is the second time in history that this has happened. The first time was in Sodom. It is not reasonable to request that Israel, a Jewish state, and Jerusalem the holy city, not allow people to peacefully request others to respect their religious beliefs.
7. Hotel located in religious neighborhood
MisleadingArticle ,   Jerusalem Israel   (10.15.13)
I am secular and feel this article is either deliberate anti Haredi provocation or written out of ignorance. All Jerusalemites know this hotel is located well into a very strict religious neighborhood and has been there for many years formerly called the Central Hotel where only Haredi weddings and celebrations are held a very old established Haredi Hotel. So take your pick article deliberate provocation or written in ignorance by Tel Avivian I feel some secular Jews seem intimidated since the appearance of the Haredi public at Rabbi Joseph's funeral and this is just part of its panicky irrational reaction to it.
8. Conservatives, now shove this!
(10.15.13)
I often hear people saying that parts of London aren't british anymore. There you have it in Israel too! Parts of Israel aren't Israeli anymore!
9. Morality destruction galore
PaulD ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.15.13)
Let me see the same radical secularists, scream outrage about Arab traditions of modesty, or Religious Christians. My guess is they will bend over backwards to justify other cultures. These people making a fuss have no moral standards, and want to undermine Religious Jews. Period..
10. Modest dress means,less dress.
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (10.15.13)
11. True, it's bad idea to generalize, but: demands by religious
tom ,   tel aviv   (10.15.13)
addicts increase according to their perceived strength (numbers). It is certainly true about the Religion of Peace and without doubt about our own variety. Religion & Democracy are incompatible in Middle East so it seems.
12. "Modesty signs 'reach' central Jerusalem"
Think, Israel   (10.15.13)
"reach" -- as if it were polio virus spreading. I love the use of "they" as in, "Are THEY planning to bring the darkest people here?" Who are "they"-- are "they" going to dig up these "darkest" of people and dump them by the truckload over Central Jerusalem suddenly? It would be the worst thing EVER if women were to "wear modest clothes on the street". We like walking around on the street dressed in our underwear or nearly so. Regardless of sense of decency or basics of good taste, who is going to be "forced" to wear anything "modest" on the streets of central Jerusalem? We're talking Israelis here. Davka, they would wear swimwear on the street at the mere hint that they were shocking Haredi children and adults alike with their attire. People should be like sacred cows with unlimited movement. They should be able to walk into anyone's private home dressed however they please. If a person opens a store with their own private life-savings money, they should have to sit there every day and tolerate anyone walking in and wearing whatever they like and saying whatever they like as well...freedom of speech and personal style expression, right?
13. Democracy?
Joe ,   Houston   (10.15.13)
As long as freedom of speech is the democratic law in Israel, it is their right as the property owner to request that people come into their establishment in modest clothing. In as much as an upper class restaurant has that same right.
14. to #9
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (10.15.13)
You mention religious Christians. I went to a Catholic boarding school, taught by nuns wearing old-fashioned habits (before Vatican II), which revealed only the face and hands. That's what I would call religious Christians. We girls wore uniforms at school, but after school and on weekends we wore whatever we wanted. We swam in normal bathing suits (no Americans wore bikinis in those days) and wore shorts and halter tops if it was hot. No one said anything (let alone screamed) about our attire. They didn't care. Everyone in this world knows how the human body looks. The most modest attire in the world doesn't automatically make the person wearing it good. Even if a murderer wears a burka or a black suit and hat and s/he is still a murderer. If you believe in God, then you ought to realize that God sees through clothing into the soul of the individual. Your moral standard modest attire rules are all manmade.
15. One good reason to be modest..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.15.13)
It is far more rewarding when people discover your qualities without your help.
16. haredi or sharia; some choice. Neither thanx!
kippa seruga ,   Israel   (10.15.13)
I'll find a way to muddle through without giving in to either.
17. Modesty is not bad if...
Robert ,   Antwerp Belgium   (10.15.13)
it doesn't go extremes. If freedom of choice remains if it applies also to men (no shorts, long sleeves, hair and beard covered and so on)
18. 17 Robert,a balaclava covers head ..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.15.13)
and beard.
19. 16 Don't give in ,but give up when
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.15.13)
you realize ,you are wasting your time.Lol..
20. #11 Tom -- Religion is not the antithesis of Democracy.
(10.16.13)
Freedom of ideas should not be limited to those ideas we agree with or fully understand. Religion has been so demonized by the secularists that to even debate the existence of G-d is considered foolish pursuit by the liberal PC world. Kant, Schopenhauer, Hegel, Voltaire, et al wold be poo-pooed if they lived in Israel today. Those who have chosen not to practice their religion have no more right to impose their irreligious ways on those who do practice -- than the religious to impose on those who don't. If you don't want someone to insist you wear modest clothing, don't insist on coming into their privately owned store and putting your cleavage and micro-minis under their noses. There's a very common sign in many stores/restaurants in the US that says: "No Shoes, No Shirt: No Service". Store-owners have rights too. They may turn down your business the same way you may choose not to patronize their business.
21. #20:You're right (whoever you are). I take back the "Demo-
tom ,   tel aviv   (10.16.13)
cracy" part. Actually I wince at the overuse of that word in every possible discussion; it reminds me of misuse of "Shoah", when someone thinks it'll make a statement more dramatic/correct. Of course everyone can set the rules of his house, the catch is: when the "House" will have sufficient numbers of religious followers the rules will influence larger and larger parts of our collective life. All done in the spirit of Democracy, just like in Gaza or Iran. "Catch 22" of misguided & blind trust in said "Democracy".
22. Unclear
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (10.16.13)
It's unclear what the sign means. Inside the beauty parlour there are probably women only. Otherwise how do the married women have their hair uncovered? If there are male hairdressers, the sign will not help. If the sign refers to the street, we don't own the street or tell others how to use the street beyond basic rules of public decency.
23. To #20
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (10.16.13)
You forgot to mention that the "No shoes, no shirt, no service" applied to men only. Occasionally and in certain cities, one finds the above sign with the addition of "Ladies: No shoes, No shirts, free beer." :-)
24. Ora , It's what INSIDE that's IMPORTANT
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.16.13)
It's not the package . And let those who want it , walk around in shorts , with short sleeves , and without hat .
25. 24 Charles,than why are you dressed
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.16.13)
tip top,if only the inside is important?
26. #23/M.Hartley:Hillarious! New Orleans, right? :) - former#20
(10.16.13)
27. 25 , if walking around in shorts or jeans
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (10.16.13)
with a polo is tip top for you , let it be . The clothing is NOT important , the robe does not make the monk .
28. The average Israeli is gaining weight thanks to
Al   (10.16.13)
a western diet along with endless internet and tv watching. As for the females. If you don't have a rock hard body please cover up. The same goes for the men.
29. To # 26
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (10.16.13)
New Orleans, definitely! There are places in Atlanta that also subscribe to that idea, but I, being a nice, shy, totally modest and demure old lady, wouldn't know where those are. Oh, OK! I've been known to fudge just a little about other things, too :-)
30. #6 Larry in LA LA Land
Avi   (10.17.13)
Yes Larry i am gay, and here in Israel it is our democratic right to march through the streets to demand our rights. Im very sorry if that in the year 2013 as an Israeli who works, pay taxes and serves in the army has less right than the harideem who dont work, dont pay tax dont serve in the army, why? because i was born gay as were other hundreds of thousands. SO spare us your lectures and so called morality based on your homophobic rantings ( and hay Larry we all know where that comes from dont we) from the comfort of your home in LA LA land when you cant even commit to making aliah. Strange all those scantaly clad women running through the streets of Jerusalem in the Marathon wearing tight sports shorts and sports bras and not a word out of your big holy mouth. So i suggest you stick to issues on Rodeo drive as quite franly larry kins its none of your bussiness.
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