Opinion
Democracy in real danger
Moshe Ronen
Published: 21.10.13, 21:26
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1. Dear Moshe Ronen
Israeli 2   (10.21.13)
I agree with your first two paragraphs and that's exactly why we should uphold your statements to the hilt. Today in Israel, the courts are politically activated. A president goes to jail just to show the world how great the justice system in Israel is despite lack of any evidence that he was guilty. Arabs escape many severe punishments just to show the world how much we love Arabs and how real great our justice system is. We accept all kinds of abominations just because we want to show how politically correct we are. Moshe Ronen, we are not Israel anymore. We are now the netherworld of the world where all junk and crap is dumped upon us. A farce democracy should be changed. Let's all make it a good one for a change.
2. This will be the beginning of the end. Not
Helene ,   Merkaz   (10.21.13)
Iran and not the bomb are the danger. THIS is
3. "Democracy" a blip on the screen
ASTRONAUT ,   SC, USA   (10.21.13)
Of course there is no true democracy. Democracy runs contrary to the mindset of mankind. Mankind is self-absorbed, greedy, insular, and prejudiced against those who are not of his "tribe." Look what is happening in America: more and more people are willing to cast aside their "rights and freedoms" in return "security" provided by a police state. Democracy is a rare blip on the screen of history – in a short time, Royals and Reprobates will rule once again.
4. Democracy is the right of 51% ...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.21.13)
to oppress the rest of the population. The essence of the Tora is:"Love your neighbour like yourself". How does the Supreme court guarantee the human rights if they are not guided by the Tora? That's why ,i think,they should be chosen by all the citizen.
5. Israel and democracy
Sagi   (10.22.13)
are two things which are yet to meet. Any attempt to equate Israel to a democracy is disingenuous. I could list here at least 20 reasons why, each one in itself seemingly trivial, but in total they deal a knock out blow to the meaning and essence of the word, the concept and its implementation.
6. israel is not a democracy.
michael Pielet ,   israel   (10.22.13)
What israel has is a dictatorship of the left, anti-religious, anti zionist imposing its extreme views on the jewish nation. The United States, a real democracy, the high court is nominated the President, Prime Minister, confirmed by the Senate, Knesset. In the United States Justices are not allowed to choose their successors.
7. Ridiculous Full Democracy Nowhere
Zechariah   (10.22.13)
No land has equality humanitarity and egalitarity especially not the Security Democracies.For a Denmark WW2 it's easy just surrender for the Jews not an Option .Is the USA egalitarian .Competition is worshipped .In the UK it's Class .Name one Utopian Democratic State with Tough Security.
8. Democracy is being strengthened.
Vlad   (10.22.13)
In what other country does the Supreme Court take it upon itself to constantly overturn legislature made by elected officials that the judges don't like? In what other democracy do the judges appoint themselves? The Supreme Court of Israel is out of control, and it's become a tool of the left used to subvert the democratic process.
9. The first step
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (10.22.13)
In ending the leftist dictatorship of Israel. It does not go anywhere near far enough. We need term limits on judges, no judges involved in selecting new judges and a means to remove judges that have overstepped their legal authority. Plus we need to regain control of the attorney general - so that he works for the elected government and is not another instrument of the courts. Those would be even better for democracy
10. No matter of skin kolor.
avi ,   new jersey USA   (10.22.13)
You take 1 example of the democrecy of the high court, the arrest of 3 years for un legal migrents, For ur knowledge it's not a matter of skin color it's a difrent how you get into israel!!! you may b a White Eurupean or american, if you enterd elegal you will go thrue all these hard facility's, they are here to prevent elegal gengsters and drug dealers etc.... they have no problem with skin color as you saw they bringing up jews from ethiopia even they have little dark skin, we need to enforce lew, and legal immigration, avery1 that fool's the sistem have to b arrested these politicians are looking for each vote therefor they do what the nation wants.
11. israeli supreme court is antidemocratic
david ,   new york   (10.22.13)
it is a self appointed group of leftist activists. they protect nothing other than their own polical interests. they are more powerful than the democratically elected officials. we need to dump them
12. Make Supreme Court subservient to Knesset.
Chaim ,   Israel   (10.22.13)
The Supreme Court usurped powers it was never intended to have and has no right to have. The power to make laws belongs entirely to Israel's elected officials. The Supreme Court's ONLY mandate is to interpret laws. It must be made subservient to the Knesset and thus to the people of Israel. Reform of the destructive leftist Supreme Court is long overdue.
13. Democracy in Israel
Joe mevorah ,   Lincoln, USA   (10.22.13)
As an American it's easy for me to criticize Israel's present political structure. My own government has enough problems to call ourselves a true democracy. However, if the Israeli supreme court is allowed to become a rubber stamp for the right wing racists actions then Judaism suffers. Sixty years of continuous fighting has turned this nation into a modern day Sparta which will eventually disintegrate into moral decay.
14. judges
john ,   toronto   (10.22.13)
A council of judges with knowledge and experience should choose and they themselves should be rotated so that the process is not biased . Politicians who have no judicial experience should not choose.
15. Give me a break, seriously
Sam ,   Netanya   (10.22.13)
Please, stop your babbling about democracy, you DO NOT know ANYTHING about democracy. You have no idea what this words means and implies. What you call "rule of law" is a sad joke, and just for your information, it is the very basis for totalitarism. But yeah, we know, "democracy" means "to let the far left do whatever they want, no matter what the people voted for".
16. Moshe Ronen
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.22.13)
is correct. Politics and justice do not go hand in hand. If justice, in the form of a strong supreme court, is not present then politics will rule. The rule of politicians will bring us down to the lowest levels of government in the annals of history. Beware my fellow Israeli citizens - Do not beg for a king!
17. Supreme Court et al is TOTALLY UNDEMOCRATIC...!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shaul ,   Israel / USA   (10.22.13)
In a real democracy (ie: the USA) judges are appointed by ELECTED officials. The PEOPLE elect the appointed officials. Why don't Israeli leftists understand that? TRUE DEMOCRACY is government OF (BY) the people.
18. #9 one more reform
(10.22.13)
When a person has power but is shielded from the consequences of mistakes, corruption invariably results. On the one hand, politicians run for elections and military officers are dismissed for failure, so they are motivated to do the right thing. On the other hand, every where in the world where a police force is shielded from prosecution, polilce brutality and crime follow. In Israel, judges can do what they want and are never responsible for the consequences. Change the law that allows a judge to rule on anything, but that there are criminal and financial consequences for mistakes and the judges will be careful.
19. "real democracy"
Zev ,   Israel   (10.22.13)
Israel is not a real democracy. When the Supreme court upholds anything on the left and when it comes to the right bends over backwards to find a way to disqualify there is something very wrong. There are so many examples that it would need a whole article to list. One for instance is when They ruled that Arab livelihood is more important than saving Israeli lives when it came to the fence but had no problem doing away with Jews livelihood and even their homes and graves when it came to the expulsion from Gush Katif.
20. #16: Jerusalemite
Israeli 2   (10.22.13)
A king like David or Shlomo is much more preferable than the so called "democracy" that prevails today. Jerusalemite, beg for the Almighty to return as our only king, but this cannot be done until we observe the Torah and do as he commands. Let us return to Israel with love for man and Torah. We live in Israel, but Israel is not yet ours.
21. Let us hope, that this change will usher a new era in our
tom ,   tel aviv   (10.22.13)
politics, where our Parliament really can follow the path the so-called "People" voted for in elections. Until now it is simply a travesty not worth bothering on election day.
22. We learn nothing from history
Bertram ,   London, UK   (10.22.13)
A mere glance at what happened in 1930s Germany should provide a warning about the perversion and manipulation of 'democracy'. Democracy can mean the dictatorship of the majority or it can mean a system which guards the interests of a society as a whole, including minorities. And that does mean operating on the basis on the rule of law, freedom of expression and association, and according to the principles of individual and social justice. My guess is that a properly appointed judiciary must be part of that system.
23. Democracy
g ,   Tel Aviv   (10.22.13)
is incompatible with theocratic laws such as compelling its citizenry to marry or be buried (that is, without having to pay vast fortunes for "non denominational burial) without religious interference. What many are saying here is that the court should be stifled to prevent "leftist" influence. This is so that their "rightist" influence gets supremacy. And that, as far as these narrow minds is concerned, would be democracy. No democratic country should influence the courts, but the problem lies in the corruption that dominates all the outcomes. Which is why what this country needed from the start was a rights-based constitution. But who would agree now to what would effectively undermine their power agendas? Under Netanyahu, more and more is being put under control of government departments. Goodbye democracy, hello Soviet-style governance. But... as someone once put it so aptly: you get the government you deserve. So now they'll take over the courts so they can pass any bill they like. As for the concept of elected government, how in heck does one call an unstable alliance of minority elected parties a reflection of "what the people want"? The writer is correct in pointing out that elections alone are not a reflection of democracy.
24. Stay out Mr Defamation
Philippe ,   Raanana   (10.22.13)
Keep out of the debate your grotesque slandering analysis is exactly the contrary of what Israel is , a full fledged extremely liberal democracy.Actually minorities like arabs enjoys privileges above the common people, like not going into the army and not giving even one day of participation towards the State that rewards them like others citizens with social protection.
25. #8 what country
(10.22.13)
In Iran, the Supreme Islamic Council can overturn any decision made by the Iranian Parliament.
26. Democracy?
tiki ,   belgium   (10.22.13)
Show me ONE country where there is real democracy! There isn't. It's all superficial! "Democratic freedom as long as it doesn't oppose the state's interest" is today's definition of democracy. Problem is that nobody knows where the states interests starts/ends, who decides & why. Today's democratic freedoms in the free world are squandered by government who in the name of security, spy on us every second of the day. Camera's on our highways & street corners, telephone/mail is controlled/bugged, bank accounts are not private anymore, fingerprints, eye recognition etc.etc.etc. In other words: every citizen is presumed guilty until proven innocent. The only thing left of democracy is the word itself, to give the people a sense of power and a good feeling.
27. #22 well said!
(10.22.13)
A properly appointed and functioning judiciary is critical for any democracy. The other side of the coin is that the best way to subvert a democracy is to take over the judiciary, and that is what the extreme Left did in Israel. Just a simple example: to force the "peace process" on Israel, the court accepted Rabin buying Goldfarb for money, allowed the GSS to act illegally against legal political parties, shut down freedom of press, closed the solid corruption case against the Sharon gang, allowed establishment of the illegal Kadima party, and allowed Olmert's illegal actions in Amona. Looking at these and other undeniable examples, it is clear that without court reform Israel cannot be democratic.
28. Let's call it what it really is!
michael Pielet ,   israel   (10.22.13)
By allowing current justices on the selection committee, the high court operates like the Soviet Politburo, with the same result. This is fascism, Israeli style, one segment of israeli society, the left, ant-zionist, anti-religious segment foists its beliefs on all other segments of israeli society and has the nerve to call it democracy. its not democracy, its a dictatorship of fascists perpetuated by a corrupt selection process.
29. Balance of powers
Shachar ,   Eilat   (10.22.13)
Democracy is a loose term and each country gives it's own interpretation to the word. What is important is the balance of powers between the Gov't, the Knesset and the Judiciary. Each one keeps the others in check so that no one body can change the way we live. It takes all 3 bodies to agree to make substantial change. And that buys us stability but also a mechanism for change. That many talkbackers don't understand this is a stain on the democratic education system.
30. an overhaul of the entire dysfunctional system is needed
zionist forever   (10.22.13)
A second political chamber like modern western democracies have is needed.\ Government presents drafts but it cannot become law without first being reviewed and proposed amendments made by a second branch of the legislative first reviewing and have the chance to change things before presenting it to the Knesset for final voting. A second chamber would also make better law because instead of bills being steamrollered through by a coalition example Lapid insists on a hared draft which is an emotional subject some for others against. Bibi needs Lapid in government to make a coalition so he is forced to agreed on terms Lapid likes even if they may not be good. This way before it can be voted into law and ammendments can be made and if Lapid wants to be taken seriously he won't vote against ammendments so he can get it all his way. Also in cases like the ones with the illegals, the court can intervene at the amendment stage of they think it will actually be illegal so that can be taken into consideration before its returned to the Knesset who can then make ammendments to the bill so it can pass instead of the whole thing being killed at the very end and having to start from scratch. We also need to make the courts more accountable because the way judges choose judges and the president signs on the dotted line and obviously a leftist judge won't chose somebody whose views are more right wing. The current system does not work properly and creates bad laws and the judiciary is an old boys club so the opinions of judges don't vary much and considering their power its not right.
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