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2 soldiers expelled from conversion course because of hug
Yoav Zitun
Published: 21.10.13, 20:00
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1. Converts are expected to be more Jewish than 99% of "Jewish"
SAD ,   Israel   (10.21.13)
Israelis..... and even THAT is never enough to be accepted.
2. They should view it as a gift from Heaven: nobody that is
tom ,   tel aviv   (10.21.13)
willing to fight for this country should feel they have to oblige the lunatics from Mea Shearim/Bnei Brak by "converting"! This may give them a needed pause for thinking it over.
3. converts
harvey gefen ,   toronto ont, canada   (10.21.13)
since abraham we are all converts and if his standards were consistent to nativ or orthodox standards there would be no jews, we are all borne in the image of g-d to be human and humane .if hugging were a crime we should all be guilty of it .
4. hugs invalidate soldiers conversion needs?
Avi the Ger ,   Israel   (10.21.13)
And thats why the young, modern soldier in the State of Israel cannot relate to being a religious Jew because of nonsense, borishness and illegitimacy that the "religious" insensativity and the "hareidi" stranglehold on halakha-they thrive on the power. To teach a Jew and to teach them even 100 times if need be, is a requiste of any Rav. Teach, then leave punishment for a higher judge-or youll be judged by that same measure-said our sages, this generation of religious authority is lost.
5. This only damages the IDF.
David ,   Hartford USA   (10.21.13)
Girls brushing another girl's hair? Are you kidding? What kind of instructors teach these courses? Why not use a carrot instead of a stick? Do you think that expelling these kids will show Judaism's sweetness? Kids- come to America and convert. Over here we treat you like family. Nobody will look over your shoulder to see if you kissed your girlfriend. Israel has plenty of real problems to worry about- and this doesn't qualify as one. Let the soldiers back into the program. (But I'd be surprised if they wanted to return with such puritanical instructors. Maybe it's time to replace them.)
6. So then ...
Doug ,   U.S.   (10.21.13)
... they weren't all that serious about this "conversion".
7. Tyranny of the orhodox
Sidney ,   USA   (10.21.13)
"A new genetic analysis has now filled in another piece of the origins puzzle, pointing to European women as the principal female founders, and to the Jewish community of the early Roman empire as the possible source of the Ashkenazi ancestors. The finding establishes that the women who founded the Ashkenazi Jewish community of Europe were not from the Near East, as previously supposed, and reinforces the idea that many Jewish communities outside Israel were founded by single men who married and converted local women." Neither Bathsheba nor Ruth was converted by rabbis. If a person is willing to fight and die for Israel and wants to join the Jewish people, that person should be welcomed with open arms. Rabbis are a burden on the Jewish people.
8. Conversion in Israel is totalitarian
Jay Abouaf ,   Jaffa Israel   (10.21.13)
This expulsion is sickening, totalitarian, anti- jewish, and the result of Cultist influence on the Rabbinate.
9. Soldiers don't need to convert...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.21.13)
to be Israelis. To convert to Judaism,you need to follow the Tora rules. One of them is purity before marriage.You don't like the rules,don't convert.
10. I am seriously considering conversion
Sagi   (10.22.13)
I do not wish to be associated with madness.
11. Is Israel under the control of idiots?
Dan   (10.22.13)
I'm sure the two people involved are rethinking whether Judaism and Israel are for them if they can't allow affection between make and female.
12. Why bother?
mea   (10.22.13)
Conversion is simply an exercise in rejection. Even if these two completed their course and converted somebody down the road will condemn their effort. They'll be told a thousand times they aren't "good enough" or "don't look Jewish" or whatever. As a convert, I eventually gave up trying to connect and be accepted. I practice alone or with a small group of mixed Reform liberals --who at least welcome me on holidays. There was a time I was willing to move to Israel to study and go through an Orthodox conversion so I could make aliyah, move my life and business to Israel and become an Israeli. I was eventually worn down by the constant snottiness, rejection, clannishness, and basic lack of welcome from all EXCEPT the most liberal Reform synagogue. If Jews want more support they could start by being welcoming. I have stayed in the US when I prefer Israel, and I have stayed in a secular life when once I felt very interested in a religious lifestyle. Nobody wants to live a lonely life and if people could truly see how lonely it s to be a convert stuck between two worlds, they perhaps would be kinder towards that same stranger whom the door is left ajar for on peseach.
13. 10 S, Let's convert to humanism, to hugging & brushing hair.
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.22.13)
14. Conversion and reality
Ruth ,   Beit Shemesh, Israel   (10.22.13)
The trouble is, we are not told all the details involved, leaving this story wide open for interpretation. However, as someone who converted some years ago, I can tell you that conversion is a very serious business indeed and definitely entails all the orthodox requirements. There is a true soul change at the mikvah in the presence of three shomer Shabbat Jewish men - given directly by Hashem - and anyone who converts and subsequently backslides is in a far worse state spiritually then if he or she had not converted from being a righteous gentile who is not required to keep more than the seven Noachide laws. Conversion should not be seen as a ticket to social or marital acceptance, but only in response to an overwhelming inner need to come home as the Jew you have found that, no matter what, you simply have to be. If someone is not prepared to keep the halachic requirements which fully observant Jews keep on a daily basis - which do actually include no touching of the opposite sex before marriage - then they should not try to convert. They can still be excellent soldiers and wonderful Israeli citizens.
15. Hugging partners
Ronnie ,   HodHasharon Israel   (10.22.13)
So if 2 men had hugged would this have been acceptable, so gays can get converted easier????
16. You don't like the rules, say bye and no hard feeling
JJJ   (10.22.13)
Its simple, they were told as everybody in advance of the start of the processes the rules of the game, they chose to act as they wish, the hell with every body. You don't like the rules, say bye and no hard feeling. but don't play the processes or the processes will play you, and they played you nicely
17. sounds a bit harsh but..
Larry ,   LA   (10.22.13)
sounds a bit harsh but this is Israel where terrorists are set free after a few years to improve their skills and politicians are shot. in a place where individual freedom is meshed with religious rituals perhaps this is just whereas in America where there are new concepts such as same sex marriage and glorification of sex, this would be considered harsh...
18. To #10 and #13
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (10.22.13)
Hotdamn'! I knew I'd find the right guys, if I gave it enough time! Boys, I love hugging and (face) cheek-kissing and hair brushing and I don't care to what branch of which religion you belong. But in case you get the urge, I live within 4 miles of 3 synagogues. Oh, and if you don't like what the Rabbi preaches on Shabbat, you may, the next morning, want to ease on over and see what's shaking at one of those churches, which are directly vis a vis all three synagogues. As for me, I belong to the Church of "Your Guess Is As Good As Mine," which applies equally to my genetic make-up.
19. you are all talking out of your "ends"!
ilan ,   Ramat Gan, Israel   (10.22.13)
"ends" as in where your food comes out of! when i was in the army a soldier got shabat for hugging his female cousin who made allyah and he hasn't seen since they were little. The Army has rules, and so does the course nativ! if everyone else can wait two to three years, observing shabat, keep kosher, and not touch the opposite sex, so can the rest. ts called free will and commitment! no one is forcing them to go to the course but if you so choose to,you are expected to show commitment! unless you would like to join the "OTHER" club which make women cover up 99 percent of their bodies and membership take 5 minutes and 3 words! or you can be secular like me and not give a flying *something*
20. Dont believe everything the anti religious media says.
not religious ,   earth   (10.22.13)
sounds fishy
21. You don't understand
Stan ,   Israel   (10.22.13)
Rabbis and teachers in a yeshiva can intimately touch little boys, that's OK . It's all part of Jewish tradition.
22. Destroy Orthodox tyranny NOW
Ooga Booga ,   Monkeytown   (10.22.13)
23. Why is everything BUT Judaism allowed to have rules?
Aviela ,   Migron RC, Israel   (10.22.13)
24. How many of us are there?
Neal ,   Mineapolis USA   (10.22.13)
Israel's official rabbinate seems to be bad at math, presuming there are so many hundreds of millions of us that they should do all in their power to prevent people from joining. In fact, we've never regain our numbers in 1939 and we're shedding Jews in the galut like an umbrella in a rainstorm. Welcoming people who want to become Jews should be axiomatic. Instead, the rabbinate pushes them away by demanding commitment to observance greater than most of the world's born Jews. The IDF should not go along with this. What could be more sincere than a ger putting his or her life at risk for the Jewish state? All this is about power, not religion. A rabbinate of bullies is not the sort of leadership this shul-going Jew is willing to follow.
25. 18, On the beaches you hug in the Holy Land
Michael ,   California, USA   (10.22.13)
Let's hope this pervert stays away from beaches. Body parts exposure is prevalent on Israeli beaches and it is tempting to hug and even do hair brushing. I rather go to the beach and not to a synagogue or church. A nice looking lady asked me what I was doing when I prayed on the beach and I said "could I hug you?" and we did. So many miracles in the Holy Land.
26. #16 wait until you lose the monopoly
Noa   (10.22.13)
maybe then one might be able to convert to Judaism and not to a distorted man-made ideology.
27. if the Nativ course organizers were intelligent
Philippe ,   Raanana   (10.22.13)
they would separate girls and boys in different locations.
28. And to think..
RJE ,   Adelaide, Australia   (10.22.13)
that certain rabbis actual suck the bleeding xxxx of little boys! Can you orthodox even begin to imagine how disgusting and perverted you seem to the civilised world?
29. #18 and #13
Sagi   (10.22.13)
Lots of hugs from Sagi.
30. As a Jew I do not want to mix with these converts !
olim hadashim ,   tel aviv / israel   (10.22.13)
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