Jewish Scene
Rabbi Stav lashes out at Reform Jews
Tali Farkash
Published: 13.11.13, 13:04
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44 Talkbacks for this article
1. The conflict.
michael Pielet ,   israel   (11.13.13)
State of israel alienates reform people who pretend to be rabbi's. Michaeli, an "expert" in halacha, wants israel to become a heloni society where everything goes and everybody does their own thing. Michaeli has her constituents, 43% of Israeli Jews are heloni. However it is a shrinking group demographically. Reform rabbis?, want legitimacy for intermarriage and assimilation in the United States. That is how these reform people make their living. Aipac has a very large religious presence. American heloni Jews in the macro are very weak in their support of israel.
2. Humanitarian and Security Aspects
Zechariah   (11.13.13)
Both from the Humanitarian and Security Aspects the Jews ought accept a High level of inclusiveness .
3. its funny how AMERICAN JEWS ARE CRITISIZED
...DACON9   (11.13.13)
its funny how AMERICAN JEWS ARE CRITISIZED.. YET THE majority of israelis dont know that ham is unkosher. they think cacon on matzah is observering pesach they think the TORAH is by the same writer as spiderman.... and after leaving IDF service become buddists... tikun?...YES TIKUN ISRAEL.. PREPARE FOR MASHACH
4. Rabbi Stav
sara ,   Jerusalem   (11.13.13)
Just as bad is the conversions. It is very easy to "buy" a certificate. When someone wants to join the Jewish people it means just that. How do they justify Danny Ayalons "xtian" wife? Did she even convert? If so why is she still preaching for j? Huge numbers are being admitted as converts and they immediately set out to convert Jews! Shameful and dangerous!
5. Halacha says mother must be Jewish
Joe Fraser   (11.13.13)
Anyone who has studied Jewish history knows that complete assimilation is a threat to Judaism. If you want to be a Jew it is by birthright or by conversion. History shows that intermarriage has led to complete assimilation and loss of the Jewish identity. RAbbi Stav is 100% right IMO. How can a RAbbi drive on Shabbat? How can a rabbi preside over a Brit Milah when the mother is not a Jew? How can a rabbi perform and attend a wedding occuring during Shabbat? Being a Jew is not easy, if it was there would be many more Jews. Being a Jew means commitment and study and tradition.
6. how is this different...
elke ,   usa   (11.13.13)
...from wanting to impose racial purity? Israel's rabbi's want religious purity. "Mixed marriages" are bad, the rabbis say. But constant inbreeding does have its problems, doesn't it?
7. Two forms of marriage
Danny ,   London England   (11.13.13)
In France a couple do a civil marriage and then if they choose, also a religious marriage. In Israel a couple could first do a private wedding under the Rabbinate, followed by a Conservative or Reform wedding for family and friends. Here in England where about 80% are nominally Orthodox, some Conservatives do a private marriage under the Rabbinate to get a kosher ketuba, followed by their Conservative wedding celebration. Most of our 97 Jewish schools require an Orthodox ketuba.
8. mixed marriages
Jacob ,   Beer Sheva   (11.13.13)
And how would R. Stav prevent mixed marriages? Just say it is forbidden? If no rabbi is present at those marriages (that of Chelsea for example), they did not take place in his mind?
9. @6 You know the answer to your question better than anybody
olim hadashim ,   tel aviv/israel   (11.13.13)
else .
10. Is Merav Michaeli insane?? She sounds like Hitler.
Jake ,   USA   (11.13.13)
Jews are not a race. Rabbi Stav is merely following Jewish law, and it does NOT require racial purity. Judaism is passed through the mother because (a) we always know who the mother is, and (b) because the mother raises the child (as a Jew, presumably). It has ZERO to do with race. Michaeli should be banned from the Knesset for her remarks, and required to take a course on anti-semitism.
11. Nothing more to say. Rabbi Stav is 1000% correct on this.
Jake ,   USA   (11.13.13)
12. Bigots
ex oleh chadash ,   south america   (11.13.13)
Reform should stop support for State of Israel. They say rabbis are not rabbis, they spread rumours like this in Jewish communities in the Diaspora.... We should forget Orthodox bigots like Mr. Stav. If we are not pureblood Jews... not same religion. Not mine, really...baruch ha-Shem.
13. 10 - Micheli is radical and not insane
Israeli   (11.13.13)
Its a shame to have this women at the parliament.
14. Racial Purity?
TR ,   USA   (11.13.13)
What a disgusting smear of all observant Jews! Orthodox Jews have embraced Ethipoian Jews, so how is Jewish law for racial purity?!?! No decent person should associate with this person. Michaeli should be sued for libel and kicked out of the Knesset (but deserves a horse-whipping).
15. back to the who is a Jew business
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (11.13.13)
Whoever is so interested in Judaism that he/she wants to be identified with it and considered to be a Jew should be allowed to be one. (even Chelsea's kid). All of you who are clamoring for more Jews and at the same time cursing intermarriage, why not make an attempt to welcome the interfaithers, not by trying to force them into the Orthodox pattern of rigidity and exclusion, but rather by accepting their view as one of many. Why stick with 3000 year old rules and guidelines? You don't use 3000 year old medical textbooks, do you?
16. Precisely why half of the world is anti-Semitic!!
(11.13.13)
This is absurd. A half-Jewish person has a right to reside in Israel based on the Law of Return and should be considered Jewish if he or she chooses to identify himself as such. Anyone who read the bible, actually read it, will know that in the Torah it is the father who gives the Jewry not the mother. During the Roman Empire, the soldiers were raping Israeli Jewish women of whom many were married, the rabbis are the ones who 'edited' this scripture because the mother can never be in question unlike the father. So in actual reality most people have Jewish mothers and non Jewish fathers are not technically Jews. Rabbis do not have the right to decide who is Jewish and who isn't, they are not above the rest of us.
17. 14 Wrong! Many Khareidi rabbis still don't accept Ethopians
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   www.netzarim.co.il   (11.13.13)
Some rabbis do. Good for them. But many Khareidi (and other) rabbis still don't. You're wearing blinkers and telling only the half of the story you like.
18. #16, nonsense
Jake ,   USA   (11.13.13)
Yes, when Israel was a group of tribes, the tribal membership was passed down through the father, that custom carried on for centuries, until the Roman exile. As a homeless, splintered, wandering nation customs needed to change. Before the exile, being a citizen of Israel made you "Jewish", not much more was required. In exile, being "Jewish" requires a commitment to the national ethos (Torah) since that is the only thing left of our nationhood outside of the homeland. Now that the homeland is being restored there is an opportunity to revisit this issue, but it takes longer than 65 years to reverse the effects of 1800+ years of exile.
19. The "Who is a Jew" paranoia
Brazil   (11.13.13)
Most of Israelis don't mind. If you are Zionist, it's OK. They welcome you, even if you are a "half" Jew, as to say. A lot of olim chadashim come to Israel from all around the globe and serve in the army, but many are not regarded as "Jewish" by this rabinate. Haredim like to make people crazy, because they are bigots. Knesset must separate Religion from State. Ignorant Orthodox people that say Reform is not Judaism should learn about rabbi Wise, whom began Reform in America. He was a rabbi. Reform was made by Jews. It's a Jewish movement, like many others. it seems that some people like rabbi Stav doesn't respect other affiliations; this is not Zionism. Israel is for all Jews.
20. With all due respect, Merav Michaeli is clinically ill.
Sharon Goldner ,   U.S.A.   (11.13.13)
21. 18 Jake - Doesn't square with latest Univ. Genetic Research
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   www.netzarim.co.il   (11.14.13)
which shows that the Jews who fled to Europe after the destruction of the Beit ha-Miqdash in 70 C.E. (which probably makes them Sadducee = Hellenist, ersatz priests) came without wives and married European gentile women. Thus, researchers have concluded and published, Ashkenazim have no maternal mitochondrial DNA link to Jews of the Middle East. Their maternal lineage is European gentiles.
22. Boycott marriage!
Mark ,   London, UK   (11.14.13)
I used to boycott ALL marriages because it was only available to some (straight people). Now that the anomaly has been dealt with I am rather more open to the institution. Mass boycott of marriage by those who object to the nonsense in Israel's marriage laws would soon deal with this silly problem.
23. to #5 Joe Fraser
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (11.14.13)
Our people spend more time with patriarchal-descent than with matriarchal. I have no love of the Reforms, but I also recall a famous quote: First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they attack you.... & finally they claim it was actually their own idea.
24. Wrong #21 and #19
Ben ,   USA   (11.14.13)
To #21 Your talkback is false. The latest genetic research concludes and published says that Ashkenazim absolutely and 100% are linked to the Jews of the middle eastern ancestry. Nice try to lie though which is typical of anti-Semites. To #19 Orthodox Rabbis are not bigots they are following Jewish law which has been kept for 3000 plus years. If anything it is the non-Orthodox who are bigots. And Reform was made by Jews, but it is anything but Jewish. It was made to assimilate Jews completely into NON-JEWISH Christian Europe. And that is exactly what is does- assimilate Jews into being NON-JEWS.
25. Re 21-Study was conducted by Professor Martin Richards
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   www.netzarim.co.il   (11.14.13)
It was published by EurekAlert Study was conducted by Professor Martin Richards, of the Archaeogenetics Research Group at the University of Huddersfield. If you Google that perhaps you can find the URL
26. dangerous stupid evil man. a man one with the devil
ralph   (11.14.13)
27. #15: For your gross lack of information
Israeli 2   (11.14.13)
the Torah is a medical and scientific book that is closer to 5000 years. Everything Torah says and points out is accurate even today. Those who do not like it may stay where they are but do not become Jewish. Please!
28. #21 ger
zalman ,   williamsburg US   (11.14.13)
So what is your point? Does that statement make you feel better in some way....
29. Slap in the face
Sarah ,   Israel   (11.14.13)
This rabbi needs to issue a public apology for his insensitive and ludicrous comments. How about we revisit World War II and speak with families of so called 'half-Jews'- those families were hunted and killed in Germany and Poland just like 'purebreds.' The Nazis didnt care that the children had one non-Jewish parent, Catholic even. This is what happened to my family. It's shameful to hear such vile comments, this rabbi is too ignorant to represent Judaism and The Jewish people!
30. #21, not sure what research you're talking about.
Jake ,   USA   (11.14.13)
It is widely believed (among DNA researchers) that all of the Ashkenazi Jews originate from 4 women, which rules out the theory that they arrived without wives, unless a tiny group of Jewish men (4 total?) fled to Europe, took gentile wives and started the Ashkenazi sect. If Jews fled to Europe en-masse, the 4 women had to have been from a much earlier time and were not European gentiles. I don't know what to believe, since there are many conflicting theories about Ashkenazi Jews. If they fled to Europe during the Babylonian exile (not the Roman) it would explain why they (according to your theories) took gentile wives. Too many unconfirmed theories to make any conclusions.
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