Jewish Scene
Free Gital: American-style agunah
Tali Farkash
Published: 24.11.13, 16:20
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. Aguna - Gital
Df2 ,   Beer Sheva, Israel   (11.24.13)
Why can't the authorities do anything about it ? This is extortion which is a criminal offense in the U.S. She should see a divorce lawyer outside the orthodox community. Baring this, she should just leave Judaism.
2. Joint custody is reasonable
Vlad   (11.24.13)
The courts have no moral right to remove the father from custody and give the children to the mother, but it always happens in the West. My feelings on this are mixed. I don't approve withholding the Get as a weapon, but he has the right to demand joint custody.
3. You do not know what really happened
Ralph ,   Rome   (11.24.13)
Every story has two sides
4. LADIES ,DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN ! ! !
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.24.13)
Show solidarity.
5. Ancient customs
(11.24.13)
That's what happens to people who want to live in the middle age
6. WHAT A PREMITIVE LAW. HE SHOULD "GET" LOST
DAVID ,   Montreal, Canada   (11.24.13)
7. Why?
Steve ,   Dallas USA   (11.24.13)
Why would any observant woman get married in an orthodox ceremony? This is not a joke question. Judaism does not have the same concept of bastardy as Anglo law. As long as the partner is not from a prohibited class, the child is perfectly legit. Any sane - even completely observant woman would only be married in a civil ceremony. Fine marry a Jew, raise the children Jewish as can be. But no marriage ceremony, no agunah, perfectly legit children. Entering into a marriage ceremony which gives a man this kind of leverage over a young woman is insane. Any observant girl should think about it.
8. ....Cult of Power and Corruption
(11.24.13)
Unfortunately we have inherited a Jewish Law (Agunot) from Jewish tradition which was formed in a social mileau different to that of today. In ancient times all peoples, Jews & gentiles, considered society as ruled by men. Women were considered chattel, owned by their husbands. In todays society, we allocate rights to women, and it is a good thing too; we acknowledge that women are human beings too. However we have inherited a law which cannot be undone; I say this as a Torah observant Jew. In the cult like religious circles, this has led to the more baser and nastier individuals wielding power. Their Rabbis (who are a joke imo), should stop this behaviour, as they are at the top of the food chain in the cult. This just shows why the cult aspect of organised religion in general, is harmful to man.
9. dispicable part of Jewish law
Jacob E ,   Holon, Israel   (11.24.13)
The way some of these ultra orthodox men treat women makes me wonder how they treat their own mothers. She should just tell him that she's fine with everything that she has their child who she will raise to know what a horrible man his father is. She will let any woman he courts know about his dreadful personality. And in exchange for a get the same custody agreement and he can find a new wife. He can't get a new wife either until he gives her a get.
10. If only she had got married in a civil ceremony
Haim ,   TA   (11.25.13)
Well its a case of if you marry with the rabbinute you divorce with the rabbinute and as we can see the results of that one. At least in America she had the choice to marry according to civil law and not some medevil primative religious law that has no place in the modern world,
11. #3: No matter what his story might be
Israeli 2   (11.25.13)
if she asks for a divorce, he ought to give it immediately. No buts, ifs and why. This is indeed pure abuse.
12. Pehaps threat of publicizing names will help
Larry ,   LA (formerly)   (11.25.13)
this is a terrible thing but perhaps if the offended party publicized the name of the blackmailing husband in his community with all of the details perhaps it might dissuade him and other from using this disgusting tactic to squeeze money from the wife's family. The fact that a person is the grandson of a famed rabbi no longer insures him the status of the same famed rabbi. Rather sadly, in our times we have witnessed more than one son or grandson who has unfortunately abandoned the path of his fathers.
13. Let her make aliyah
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.25.13)
... even if it means spiriting her son out of the country in contravention of American law. There are ways to do this. The Rabbanut will give her a get, and her vile husband will be left without $350,000 and without his son.
14. Alternative
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (11.25.13)
Here in England we have the Jakobovits amendment which means a civil divorce cannot be issued unless both parties are 100% free to remarry i.e. the Get must be given before the civil divorce. Something is wrong with this article. Has a Beth Din heard both sides and made a ruling? It's the Beth Din that decides whether he must give her a Get, if he refuses. The media have covered the wife's view, but I haven't seen much from the husband. If Rav Reuven Feinstein supports his grandson that suggests to me, who knew Reb Moshe zrl, that there is another side. Incidentally attacking his father and his father's employer is Halachically wrong, based on Ezekiel, 'A father shall not suffer for the sins of the son nor the son for the sins of the father.'
15. Number 13. Misunderstood
Akiva ,   NYC   (11.25.13)
The Israeli Rabbinate cannot give her a Get. The Get is given by the husband with the Beth Din as witnesses. The wife then receives a document from Beth Din saying they witnessed her husband hand her a Get. Regarding the son, he's covered by International Law and the father has legal rights even if the son remains in Israel. The US courts could even demand the son be returned to the USA as he was removed in violation of a court order.
16. Reply to number 1. Leave Judaism?
Joseph ,   London England   (11.25.13)
If the wife remarries without a Get children from the second marriage risk being Halachic mamzerim [born from adultery], even if the mother 'leaves Judaism'. She would not want her children in such a position. My own feeling is that he's only asking for $350,000 because he doesn't want a divorce, and wants her back. However bad a husband most men don't want to have to admit it and give a Get, especially in a case where there will likely be another 'father' taking his place in his son's life.
17. HE cannot remarry!
Avi ,   New York   (11.25.13)
This chap is a young naive husband who will eventually want to remarry. HE cannot remarry until his first wife accepts a Get. She can stop him from remarrying. Jewish marriage and divorce require husband and wife to agree to marry or divorce. It's never a one way street, as many posters seem to imagine. If a Bais Din has heard the case and ordered him to give a Get and he refuses the Bais Din can publicise that he is in contempt of Bais Din and ask the Klal not to associate withhim, a form of excommunication. We're only hearing one side of the story.
18. To: No. 15
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.26.13)
I think there are circumstances under which a get can be granted over the spouse's objections. The other option is to have her husband placed under a herem. The United States courts have no leverage over an American-born child in Israel. Israel is not a signatory to the relevant Hague convention.
19. Only a reformed Rabbinate that dispenses JUSTICE instead of
Non-KoolAid Drinker ,   DrinkyurownKoolAid   (11.26.13)
rabbinic casuistry will solve these Rabbinate-inflicted INJUSTICES ("Reformed" here applies as defined in dictionaries and does NOT refer to the liberal movement.)
20. @ Sarah B, #18
M. Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (11.26.13)
Check your facts: Israel has been a signator to the Hague Child Abduction Convention since January 12, 1991. Taking the child and running is NOT the answer. Unfortunately for her, the husband's family is too prominent in their community to place him under herem. Personally, I would send a couple of strong-arm bullies to beat the crap out of him regularly until he issues the get.
21. This article is an mistake
Zusha ,   NYC   (11.26.13)
This story has been circulating around New York for some time now, and has been widely discussed among the entire Jewish Community. Unfortunately, this article is completely one sided and misses the entire position of the husbands side. In actuality, the wife went directly to the courts and demanded custody, while keeping the kids and not letting him see them. If it weren't for him not giving the "get", he would be completely deprived of his own children. This case is nothing more than a custody battle, with both sides fighting for the kids, and sometimes fighting unfairly. But that is a symptom of divorce, and resentment. And both sides are just as innocent, and just as guilty. Both sides.
22. #18
Df ,   Beer Sheva, Israel   (11.26.13)
The rabbinical court cannot give her a get - the husband is alive and known. If they could do that, there would be no reason for the Israeli rabbinical court and other groups going around and trying to convince husbands to give the wives a get. No need to imprison them as the courts have done. Where the courts have in the past given a get is where the husband has disappeared for years. But this is not the case. As far as the U.S. courts go, they might not have jurisdiction but there have been cases where the foreign spouse has turned to Bagatz and Bagatz has ruled that the child has to be returned. This may or may not have anything to do with the Hague convention - I have not read the court decisions.
23. free to think
iselin ,   oslo   (11.26.13)
If those involved would use their own minds and think about how silly it is to abide by "rules" on behavior from the dark ages in today's world, they would be better off. A civil divorce should be enough, without the extortion/blackmail of having to give this excuse for a man $350,000. Like an earlier talkbacker said, find a couple of thugs to break his knees every so often...oh dear, that would be taking the law into my own hands, can't do that.
24. Palegesh
Ron ,   Brooklyn, USA   (12.09.13)
Which should replace Chupah and Kidushin with Paleges. A Paleges woman who no longer wants a raltionship with her husband can pick herself up and just leave him. That part is kosher. The problem is getting all the Rabbis to agree Palegesh is permitted. To those who suggested they live together this is only is not permitted but their children are kosher Jews. There is a difference between a Bastard and a Mamzor. A Mamzor is a child conceived by a married women from a man other than her husband. A Mamzor can only marry another Mamzor or a Convert.
25. he cannot remarry
No Ship Sherlock ,   NY, USA   (01.02.14)
That may be true, however, we're talking about the great grandson of R. Feinstein. The politics are complex. Do you think it's going to be easy to find an agreed upon set of Rabbis? Do you think this man won't find enough Rabbinic firepower to challenge any ruling. I imagine he not only a narcissist but a good liar as well.
26. Alternative
No Ship Sherlock ,   NY, USA   (01.02.14)
I will tell you what's wrong. If she wants the divorce, than he needs to man up and give her a get. 3 years? Other side of the story! This is a classic case of extortion. Pirkei Avot Chapter II, Pasuk 14. What this man is doing is evil.
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