Jewish Scene
State wants 2-year-old to 'repeat circumcision'
Kobi Nachshoni
Published: 18.02.14, 17:29
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1. Who in the world is the secular interior ministry
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.18.14)
to butt into Jewish law? What do these illiterate ones understand about Jewish law? If this woman indeed was converted by ultra-orthodox Rabbis, the secular court of Israel have no right rejecting the conversion.
2. No security in the process, so why make aliyah?
mea   (02.18.14)
This case is about a conversion; but there are oddness of cases about people being told to leave the country after years of residency. The entire apparatus around making aliyah, converting or even visiting becomes a joke because the state has allowed the ultra-Orthodox to infiltrate the bureaucratic process. MANY people have "lost files", run arounds, or outright corrupt handling of their efforts to become part of the nation. Israel is stuffed with brilliant people, so why have the Israelis failed to streamline this system? This is especially absurd considering that 99% of Israelis are non-religious. This poor woman, like many, grew weary of dealing with those people and still managed to stay the course and convert--yet, here she goes again, because someone has the power to screw her over. It is awodner why anybody would rosk investing their life as well as their children's lives in a country that basically screws with you. One day this woman's son will serve the nation, protecting the very country that fails his family over and again simply because dismantling the corrupt system will shatter the system that is based upon bribery and corruption. "lost her file, teach" my eye, yeah right.
3. unbelievable
Erika Talvitie ,   BUFFALO USA   (02.18.14)
any religion that requires a blood sacrifice from an unconsenting minor that irreversibly alters function and appearance of his most private body part belongs in the dustbin of history. judaism needs to enter the 21st century and respect the bodies of all people - babies, women AND men.
4. Big halachic problem also for the son...
Smadar ,   Ariel, Israel   (02.18.14)
If his mother's conversion and his brit milah have to be repeated, he would be considered a convert in his own right by halacha - that is, by Jewish law and in his Jewish name he would no longer be the son of his parents but rather "X ben Avraham Avinu" (X son of Abraham our father) - he would be like an adopted non-Jewish child. Sad and quite injust towards the child and for the parents. The absurd point is that the State Rabbinate even recognized the mother's conversion after the fact and only the Interior ministery now blocks it apparently for bureaucratic reasons.
5. Interior Ministry
chanawashdc ,   Washington, DC   (02.18.14)
For decades as the price for participating in government coalitions, one or the other of the religious parties have demanded and been given the Interior Ministry - usually Shas. The Ministry is not and has never been a professional secular organization. It has always been under the control of one religious party or another.
6. Shove it, # 3!
Israeli 2   (02.18.14)
You have been in the dustbin of history all your life. Stay there. There are some of us who want to live healthy.
7. #3 in buff
zalman ,   williamsburg US   (02.19.14)
A "pin prick" to bring a drop of blood... there is no cutting madame.
8. Disgusting ,...
split ,   US   (02.19.14)
The imersion of nude young woman in front of old bearded goats must be the main course on their ritual menu ,...
9. Who is the Int. Minister ? Does he know Halacha ?
Roland Seener ,   London England   (02.19.14)
10. 3 Erika Talvitie, Buffalo, USA: You need to read a direct
Rivkah   (02.19.14)
translation Bible from the Hebrew so you will learn that male circumcision is an EVERLASTING COMMANDMENT of the Creator of the Universe and will be done during the Millenium Reign of High Priest and Messiah Yahoshua Ariel Shelomoh ben David ben Elohim. That means Salvation Lion of EL, Peace son of David son of Elohim. It will never be in the dustbin of history with the Lord and you will be in hell instead of in the eternal life side of death unless you get some more respect for what the Lord commands. Moses was told at age 80 to be circumcised and to circumcise his sons or he could not represent the Lord to Pharaoh of Egypt. They complied and were all circumcised. General Joshua would not allow any man to fight in his army to take the Promised Land unless the man was first circumcised. Shaul of Tarsus (Paul the Apostle) circumcised Timothy before he would allow Timothy to accompany him and preach the gospel. That is not in most translations but it is in the Aramaic English New Testament, a translation of the Peshitta Aramaic text which is the only New Testament that passes the ELS Scripture code test of authenticity. The Hebrew text of the Old Testament also passes the ELS Scripture code test of authenticity. Those are the only texts that pass that test. You need an attitude adjustment or you will be eternally separated from the Father Abba Yahovah and His Son Yahoshua.
11. to rivkah, comment nr. 10
madrie ,   spain   (02.19.14)
good comment through rivka again! thanks. the nations and the hebrews are safe in Yeshua haMashiach Who was given to us because the Almighty loves those who seek righteousness.
12. Conversion and Circumcision :
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (02.19.14)
You don't have to be an Arab to be humiliated, it goes also for "non Kosher Jews. What a country with such low level of tolerance and it no wonder that so many people leave Israel- it is a Taliban and Iranian intolerance wrapped together.
13. to Erika # 3
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (02.19.14)
You're absolutely right. It won't take long long though - you will be accused of Antisemitism and other horrible crimes. Don't worry!
14. 11 Madrie, Spain: Thank you for you kind post!
Rivkah   (02.19.14)
15. 12 Ameridane: Israel is the only nation on earth that obeys
Rivkah   (02.19.14)
by national law the Sabbath of the Lord which Hebrews chapter 4 and many other Scripture verses in many books of the Scriptures say the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord and only those who observe it enter the Lord's rest. That means do not buy or sell food or wares from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday and do not work except to do good then. The food laws did not pass away. Isaiah chapters 65 and 66 say the Lord does not protect swine eaters or those who eat unclean foods. Israel cares about the things of the Lord more than any other nation. I know of no other nation on Earth with a national Saturday Sabbath observance law. The Lord sends people to hell who do not seek Him and believe in His Son and try to obey the everlasting commandments. Not all commandments of the Lord are everlasting, but that means some are and it is a good idea to find out which ones from a direct translation of the Hebrew and Aramaic texts since there are a lot of changes in other translations that went through Greek and Latin and Old German and Old English and modern English until you can hardly recognize the Word of the Lord!
16. National failure
Gilhiut   (02.19.14)
Wake up. This case is the best joke in all human history.
17. Answering Rivka
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (02.19.14)
What has the Sabbath got to do with conversion, circumcision and non- kosher food to do?
18. @8: Not disgusting, you got it wrong
Smadar ,   Ariel, Israel   (02.19.14)
She doesn't have to immerse nude in front of the Rabbis. I myself have undergone an orthodox conversion in Israel, so I know what I'm talking about. Women wear a very loose fitting long garment for the immersion that lets the entire body come into contact with the water, but there's nothing to "see" for anyone.
19. #17
NilsG ,   Helsingborg, Sweden   (02.19.14)
So, you haven't stoned any homosexuals or disobedient younglings lately, I take it. Or worn clothing of mixed fibre. Good on you. Good on you.
20. Rav Karelitz
Joseph ,   London England   (02.19.14)
Rav Shemaryahu Yosef Nissim [ben Basya] Karelitz, may he have a refua shelaima, is recognised world- wide as a leading Rabbinical authority. To reject his conversions is an outrage and a disgrace. The Interior Ministry should be shaken up and reorganised such that it stops trying to overrule the Rabbinate.
21. discrimination
iselin ,   oslo   (02.20.14)
That poor woman and child find themselves in a situation that could easily be avoided, all due to infighting and discrimination. No wonder people on the outside think that Jews are both weird and petty-minded. You'd think that a convert who is so intent on being Jewish would be welcomed with open arms.
22. Circumcise your heart
(02.20.14)
Help the poor, the needy, the widow, the orphan, etc.
23. Banananana Republic
Sharon ,   Tel Aviv   (02.20.14)
-we are not a democracy in many respects -we do not have freedom of religion -we are held ransom by the rabbi/mullahs -we clothe and feed thousands who leech and do nothing to contribute to this society ENOUGH ALREADY!!!! People, do something!!! Reform the rabbinut, and throw these slimeballs out of government office.
24. #23, sharon
chutia ,   new delhi, india   (02.21.14)
add to that the fact that the country has been raised on stolen land and you have the full package
25. I prefer this...
Jul ,   JulJul   (02.20.14)
that living in a country where animal brothels are legal.
26. #5
A ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.20.14)
Actually, until Shas took over the ministry a few years ago it was a bureaucratic and archaic mess. After Shas took over it underwent renovation, crackdown on lazy workers, and technologically up to speed with digital filing. Don't criticize what you can't verify.
27. #8
A ,   Jerusalem Israel   (02.20.14)
Actually it is done in a way that the rabbis see nothing besides the top of her head. After she enters the mikva, the water is completely covered besides for a small space for her head. All the rabbis need to witness is that her head completely submerges.
28. to 8 and 27 ritual bath for conversion
iselin ,   oslo   (02.21.14)
Symbolism is so tiring. It's a dunk, covered or not, in presence of whomever. No wonder pragmatic Americans prefer modern interpretations of Judaism to the consternation of the fundamentalists. Time to live in the 21st century.
29. #3
David ,   Florida   (02.21.14)
Most of the Jews of the world, have entered the 21st century (with the possible exception of circumcision-which medical research has again shown benefits to both the male and his partner-although they keep going back and forth on this issue). The problem is that because of Israel's grotesque number of political parties, small extremist religious parties have undue influence over the political process and thus the government's ridiculous religious laws. They claim to have no established state religion, but they really do. signed, secular American Jew
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