Opinion
No 'religionization' but a national memory
Rabbi Benjamin Lau
Published: 23.07.18, 00:00
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. A goy's view of Tish B'av
Timo ,   Sydney   (07.23.18)
I nearly married into a Jewish family in Israel.Your traditions and identity are strong, even if you think that you're a secular, atheist, anti-haredi Israeli like my girlfriend and I were. But you're so fortunate to have them.

In my humble opinion, you will probably feel a visceral longing for these images, feelings and rituals if you're permanently cut from them. See a photo of "tisha b'av" when you're overseas and you'll instantly connect with it, whatever your ideology. You take them for granted because they're already part of you, because you live there.

When my girlfriend groaned that we had a blackout (on a Friday night of all nights!), I thought "what a curious time to observe Shabbat like those other people, even though we don't follow it". It's one of the nicest memories of my life: writing in my diary by candlelight, the serenity and peace of the moment. Sure it wasn't a strictly religious Shabbat, and the power came on a few hours later, but it was *something* even I felt a connection to.

The bible has it's, err... strange passages to modern sensibilities. But like eccentric parents or a sibling you have a love-hate relationship with, it just becomes a part of you. Deny it and you're like a log in a stream, drifting along but with no roots.
2. Read the Bible and then what?? Better, learn math & English.
Michael ,   California, USA   (07.23.18)
3. Actually: this makes sense and I'm an atheist.
(07.23.18)
4. It's a very thin line between the two. I have a feeling that
(07.23.18)
any organized religion (meaning:all of them) has a clear goal of dictating the rules to as many as possible.
That's their main reason for existence.
5. Less mourning, more living
Disillusioned   (07.23.18)
This is where the problem lies. With the very orthodox, they live in a state of permanent rejection of freedom.

Instead of celebrating their country, they continue to live in the ghettoes of exile and of bemoaning the "imperfection" of the country that gave them their freedom. Nothing is good enough. Their dress, their language, their insularity is not about the religion at all, but about continuing their state of exile.

Instead of using the lesson of how their exile came about - their disunity - to embrace their return from it, to become part of the homeland they regained, they hold on to it, and to their cut off ghettoes, and refuse to acknowledge that being a full part of it is in fact what fulfils the duties of their faith.
6. today's Jews have no biological connection to ancient Isr
Shela Ramon ,   Occupied Jerusalem   (07.23.18)
the genes say Pals have more Jewish genes than Jews
7. If you do not grieve for Zion, your life is an empty vessel
C   (07.23.18)
jews have prayed for zion ever since the period of exile was thrust
upon us.
even liberal jews before the advent of the holocaust knew that
they were jews.
the laws of moses in the torah are the fount of much of ethics
in much of the world.
8. There is daily coercion! kashrut, dress, transportation...
Doda   (07.23.18)
Instructing others what to think and how to behave because it is the way you do it, and sometimes including various "threats" to get your way, is coercion! There is no way to beautify it. Call it identity if you like, but let all choose for themselves how to express it.
I agree that 9 b'Av is one of the most important days in our history. I believe 24 hours of respect is the right thing.
I do not accept in forcing others.
If you are disturbed by the dress, menu or vehicles of others just stay away from where they are. (I don't go to Bnei Brak, Mea Shearim or BeitShemesh)

"Op-ed: There is no religious coercion in Israel, the Tisha B'Av mourning is part our identity as Israeli Jews."
9. Don't fall for R. Lau's crap
Vered, Israel   (07.23.18)
I'm SO HAPPY we don't have a Temple - we have, as a people, moved on. I wouldn't dream of mourning it's destruction, nor praying for its return. With as much trouble as the Hareidim cause all Israelis, could anyone in their right mind wish for an increase of that? How about this for a national memory: A long, long time ago, we believed that God wanted us to worship him by means of sacrifice in a specific place. We now know that's not true, and each of us is capable of praying however we desire, knowing God hears us. Israel will always be our country, because it is where we come from and we are privileged to be able to live in our ancestral home. While the Torah has some inspired, timeless values, it also has some of the worst of what humanity has to offer. Despite this, we Jews have been largely able to figure out ways to ignore the horrible stuff, and the values that remained served to found Western Civilization. Now that we are back in our land, religious zealots still embrace some of the silly parts of the Torah, and when we object, they say if we don't let them lead the way, we will dissolve as a people. They want us to give them our money and simultaneously tell us what to do. They violate the Torah by not working, but don't see it that way because the men whom they worship tell them it's okay. We have a tradition of overcoming hardship and this newest challenge will be met with determination, the challenge of how to be the majority in our land. We can enact a system in which there is a separation of religion and state. If this leads to increased observance for some and decreased observance for others, so be it. We can't use the argument that if we don't force religion on others, it will be lost. If that is really true, then it needs to be lost, as it has lost its appeal
10. Transportation Engineer
Richard Dougherty ,   Los Angeles, USA   (07.25.18)
Third Temple will have priests for the daily sacrifices. "imagine" there is a heaven above us and a hell below us! There will be a Third and a Fourth Temple (See Ezekiel 40). What about a Messiah? Third Temple will be built behind the Golden Gate. Construction will start shortly after WWIII- next January, 2019-last of the Blue Moons (4 Solar + 3 Lunar Ellipses=7 G-d's No.)
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