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Slaughter, circumcision bans put European Jews on defensive
Roi Rubinstein
Published: 20.05.19, 22:43
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33 Talkbacks for this article
1. Do Europe's Jews recognize it is close to 1935 again ?
DSM ,   USA   (05.21.19)
I think not.
2. This time we're "collateral damage" (for a change), never
(05.21.19)
the less, the problem is just as real...
3. Humane treatment of Animals
Pablo ,   HB   (05.20.19)
Kosher slaughter is antiquated and cruel , nothing happens if the animals are treated humanely and killed humanly without suffering .
Start bringing yourselves and the religion to this century !!
4. Rabbi......
claudio   (05.21.19)
Be intelligent, take all your community to Israel, let the europeans suffer the muslims.....They are the europeans punishment sended from G-D.
5. "if this is kosher"
ex Oleh Chadash   (05.20.19)
after watching this video I understood why the Reform rabbis order vegetarian food when they travel.

no government is going to ban bris, this is no sense, it's blabling.
6. Europe is no place for Jews. Duh.
Cold Turkey ,   YMCA   (05.21.19)
Let the Europeans do their own thing. Jews can go back to Judea and do their's. So called "Palestinians" will be moved to the true "Palestine" aka Jordan and everyone can have their own place and space.

The post-WWII liberal world order is increasingly being recognized as a short-term arrangement and for sure, 80 years is a long time in terms of a human life span but on a broader, social-cultural context, it's a drop in the temporal bucket.

Europe's history over the course of millennial timelines is disorder, conflict, order, disorder, conflict. Repeat. The Europeans are lying to themselves and the rest of us if they think this Spenglerian tendency is behind them.

The EU as a political union is buckling at the seams and will not last in its present form beyond the mid-2020's. The Jews have always been on the bottom of that continent's pecking order and they need to get out while they still can and Israel would be a best bet.

If the Left gets power in the US, Jews will not be welcome there, either.

To think the post-WWII liberal social order of US-compliant European states was going to last forever or that "liberal" values would somehow benefit the Jews... ah, the vanity of man.
7. Why is the EU hung up on Jewish men?
joy lee ,   Haartford   (05.21.19)
Time to boycott Europe in goods, travel and all other services.
8. diamonds
simòn ,   rome   (05.21.19)
Its time for the jewish people living inmAntwerp to quit this awfull city, called antwerp.
Its time to do alliah and start a bright live , without being living with the evilst antisemites of western europa : belgium
9. Let's be honest:it's VERY tough to defend genital mutilation
(05.21.19)
even as a Jew. I know it you know it.
All we can debate is what "rights" are more important: those of true believers or those of male babies.
(My son is circumcised although I'm a fanatical secular!) Go figure, tradition, tribalism & all that.
Same goes for animal rights.
Is kosher more inhumane? I have not seen a typical "gentile" slaughter vs typical kosher one.
I doubt I'd like any of them!
10. Yes... of course Europe loves Jews...
Leo ,   Modi'in   (05.21.19)
...as long they remain jewish without yiddishkeit.

This sounds a little like our own so nice hilonim ici who tolerate religious Jews as long as they work... as long as they serve in the army and work... wait: as long as they serve in the army, work and are not arrogant... no vait: as long as they serve in the army, work, are not arrogant and are wearing clean clothes...and don't lecture you on religion and politics and are polite and are not fussy about Torah and mitsvoth and all this kind of religious stuff about which nobody cares anyway....:-)

See what I mean ? No ?

The following statement by this German European autocrat (according to the article above) -- Katharina Von Schnurbein is certainly a lovely lady -- is also nice:

"These laws were not written to remove the Jews from Europe; Europe without its Jews will be an entirely different continent."

"Will be" ? Not "Would be" ? Hey wait...why do I feel that something was lost in translation ?

:-)
11. CIRCUMCISION.....no skin off my nose .
MR CYNIC ,   SAFED CYNIC HOUSE   (05.21.19)
12. It's about time
Chris ,   Melbourne   (05.21.19)
Protecting human, children and animal rights is the only way forward, into an open, enlightened future for all. Bris shalom!
13. Verstümmelungen müssen beendet werden!
Dagmar Rehak ,   Wien   (05.21.19)
Sie sind auch strafbar, wie jede andere schwere Körperverletzung auch.
Verstümmelnden Eltern muss man die Kinder wegnehmen, um diese zu schützen.
14. Brit Milah means zero to the Jewish Agency for immigration..
NYC   (05.21.19)
15. Humane slaughter of humans?
(05.22.19)
Look at us. We are so humane and civilized.
16. Naturally, the question is?
Koose E Mack ,   Great Satan   (05.23.19)
Do the same Slaughter and Circumcision Laws apply to those of The Religion of Peace? Or does it just single out Bnai Yisrael?
17. Humane slaughter of humans?
(05.23.19)
Look at us. We are so humane and civilized.
18. Incremental steps
Martin Alan Baker ,   Philadelphia PA   (05.23.19)
These incremental steps towards an attempted repeat of the unthinkable are maddening. What makes the situation particularly infuriating is that it isn't happening in one country but everywhere.
And the lame rationalizations are merely denials of the obvious. "Pray and keep your powder dry".
19. Children conceived in sex with an uncircumcised male are
Rivkah   (05.25.19)
unclean to haShem. When the seed passes into the woman and touches the fleshy foreskin of an uncircumcised male, the seed becomes unclean to haShem so the conception is unclean. ALL males should be circumcised to please haShem. Uncircumcision=heathen to haShem.
20. We need to understand each other's concerns
Michael Glass ,   Sydney, Australia   (05.26.19)
People have strong and conflicting views on circumcision and ritual slaughter. For some, infant circumcision is a sacred rite that must be defended at all costs; for others, it is an obscene mutilation. Similarly, with ritual slaughter of animals, it is a religious requirement for some and for others it is unnecessarily cruel.

Concern about cruelty to animals is growing, and this has led to bans on ritual slaughter in several countries. It is not meant as an attack on faith. As cruelty to animals is a legitimate concern to so many people, I hope that some accommodation can be made that can satisfy both animal cruelty concerns and ritual requirements.

Concern about the ethics of infant and childhood circumcision is a much more difficult issue. Nevertheless, support for circumcision is widespread in the community even though opposition to this practice is growing.

It is not possible to satisfy every concern about circumcision but a harm minimisation approach can increase public safety. I believe that this approach can be made compatible with ritual requirements, as the life of a child is, rightly, more important than always circumcising on the 8th day of life.

The first thing to recognise is that circumcision is surgery, and as such, it needs to be regulated to increase public safety. Therefore:

1 Unqualified people should be banned from performing genital surgery on anyone!

2 Incompetent operators should be banned from performing any genital surgery on anyone else! 

3 With medical circumcision (and other genital surgery,) it should only be performed when other treatments (e.g., the use of steroid ointments for phimosis) have been tried and failed. https://www.cochrane.org/CD008973/RENAL_topical-corticosteroids-for-treating-phimosis-in-boys

4 Dangerous traditional practices such as metzitzah b'peh (oral suction of the circumcision wound) should be discouraged by public education and other suitable measures.

5 Before anyone is circumcised, an independent doctor must certify in writing that the person is free of any bleeding disorders and any other contra-indications and is strong enough to withstand the surgery. It is scandalous when bleeding disorders are discovered after a child's life is endangered by uncontrolled bleeding.

6 No child should be circumcised against the objection of a parent. The informed and written consent of both parents should be mandatory. When parents can't or won't agree, it should be up to the owner of the foreskin to decide its fate, when he is an adult.

7 If a man or an older child is forcibly circumcised against his will, this should be treated as a sexual assault, and the perpetrator prosecuted accordingly.

These rules won’t interfere with most circumcisions, whether ritual or medical, and they don’t answer the ethical concerns about genital surgery on minors. However, they would reduce the medical risks of circumcision and deal with other abuses.
21. It's 2020. Isn't it about time to stop this madness?
Meir   (07.12.20)
Stop this witchcraft.
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