the army doesn't want people that play D&D because we actually have brains. the army needs people who wont think about running into a mine feild, they want the people to say "yes sir" and start running. I've played several games of D&D and i haven't bought a sword or a sheild yet. the article is completely leaving out the tabletop players. mabe a few D&D players are physcos, but i bet a few bankers go crazy too,all that money and none of it being yours will do that to you, i don't see the army making all the bankers go to a phsycologist. you say there's a difference, i don't see one.

I wonder if the IDF can back up its assertions that D&D players have weak personalities. What factual (not anecdotal) evidence does it have of this? Without such data, this is merely baseless discrimination of the sort demonstated by "C'mon, you KNOW the author is right..."

Your assertion that you meet people lacking in imagination and creativity within the game seems pretty direct, but only because it ignores the huge masses of people with no creativity or imagination, but which also DON'T play the games. You're claiming it's a marker... that's garbage. You can use a statistic to prove anything. It's been done time and again through history. What about the people that watch soap operas? A lot of them think that those programs are real-life events and feel sorry for those poor, poor doctors... And yet, nobody is trying to shut those down. Nobody claims those people are detached from reality. Shouldn't a penchant for soap operas be viewed as a marker? The logical extension of the reasoning of this article is that anyone that entertains a form of escapism, from television to simply playing poker with the guys, is detached from reality. And if I were in a war zone, you're damned right I'd want to occasionally escape from that reality. And here you are, stating personal experience from an unqualified position of not having any psychological training, using anecdotal evidence instead of real knowledge and science to support an article and a position that shares the same weaknesses in reasoning you yourself are exhibiting. Talk about detached from reality.

I'm surprised that the D&D non-coms in the IDF are given a low security clearance. But I don't think it has anything to do with religion. D&D teaches commaderie, how to think for one's self, and exercises the imagination as well as excercises logic and reasoning. Last time I heard, that's a good thing. So, I don't think religion has anything to do with it. The IDF, however, is an army that is built differently than the U.S. Army. The U.S. Army trains the soldier to think for himself and in a team. Other armies train their soldiers differently. So, the IDF has a different philsophy about it's soldiers. So what? There is a lot of other promising careers in Israel. Daniel Rona makes his career as an Israeli tour guide; MS Windows is made in Israel, and I bet some one can start a lucative d20 company down there.

I am an experienced Dungeon Master as well as an avid player, I play with people who are and have been in the US military, including two ex-SEALs, believe me, the Roleplay genre has strengthened our minds, not weakened them. What these ignorant people fail to realize is that those who play a good healthy game of D&D do so with the same "Temporary suspension of disbelief" that one does when watching a fictional movie or reading a novel. This is not the same as living one's life in an alternate reality. PLEASE educate yourselves before passing judgement.

I have been gaming for well over 23 years. In my experience the RPG player is more capable of handling stress, and think outside the box to get things done. Gamers don't make good soldiers because they are used to thinking on their feet. Thinking is not encouraged in line soldiers.

I was told to go here by the latest Dork Tower cartoon. I thought they were kidding, but it seems true. What a bunch of weird people. I never actually felt "attached" to reality to begin with. Honestly, I'd take a game of D&D over joining the army any day. I played once (I'd play more but can't find the time), and it still was not enough to support my imagination. I was able to think of hundreds of outcomes for each move I made, and then found hundreds more outcomes from those moves long before I rolled the dice to see how far my guy would be able to move. So I guess the army doesn't want people that know the fine art of strategy. It's easy to spot the D&D players during the wars over there, they are the ones WITHOUT BOMBS STRAPPED TO THEIR CHESTS.

Actually the neither the IDF nor the article claims that a correlation exists. The IDF merely states that playing the game results in a psychological evaluation and that roughly 50% of all those recommended for evaluation are deemed weak personalities and given low security clearance. However there could be 1000 other reasons for the same evaluation. Some reasons for evaluation include : “subject Doesn't watch sports” “subject listens to classical music” “subject's parents are divorced” “subject is from mixed faith household.” “subject did exceptionally well/poor in school” Yep, b/c every citizen of age in Israel is required to serve they screen a lot of people. Just because all of group a is in group b; and part of group b is in group c; it does not not follow that the percentage of group a that is in group c is any higher than the general population (x). There is no mathematical correlation proved nor even implied. What is stated that the IDF believes that tendencies exist. This is much different than a correlation which has a specific meaning. If the general population does not qualify for a high security clearance (and it doesn't) then D&D players could be more qualified than average for high clearance and still tend not to have high clearance.

Guys Get a life How on gods green earth does people sitting around a table chatting disscussing problems indicate weak persanolities. If you stopped and talked to some of these people and gave them a scenario of how to get someone out of the building or a hostage rescue you would find that the ideas are inovative and new. But people cant see past the aspect that they are rolling dice or fighting with fake weopons that disturbs you. I think that it is you that needs to see the shrink as your petty minde

...which said that roleplayers as a group are unsuitable for clasified military work. I'm a roleplayer too. I also think I can see where the IDF is coming from. RPG'ers tend to have a disproportionate share of "creative" types. Sure, they're intelligent, but they may not necessarily be the right person for highly sensitive work. And its not to say that they have a "scew loose" at all: we're all different, and some people are better suited for some tasks than others. Similarly, 've also met people who are clearly emotionally imature too. I can't say if they're more/less common than other passtimes, so I won't say if I think that RPG'ing is a useful demographics descrimination tool. I do have to wonder, however, what the IDF thinks about people whose interests include "Military Wargaming Simulations". :-) -hh

Granted I quit playing D&D a while ago and replaced it with GURPS, I'm MI in the military and a gamer, and the best MI the US has to offer are gamers. Creativity, and the ability to get into someone elses head, is crucial to doing the job right. This article just proves that some people are completely ignorant.

Oddly enough, not only are gamers welcome in the US Air Force, but the officers train with a modded version of Starcraft... Not sure about D&Ders, though. "Are you good at strategy video games? United States Air Force wants YOU!" *lol*

I've never even met a LARPer. Normal D&D isn't anything like that, so it's inconceivable that pictures of live-action playing should accompany an article that discusses normal D&D. Live-action doesn't constitute an even significant portion of role-playing. Furthermore, there are plenty of live-action GURPS, Shadowrun, and White Wolf players out there. Wizards of the Coast would probably be justified in suing for the misuse and abuse of their products, and the slander dealt to their reputation based on this recklessly unresearched and unfounded claim. On a final note, if I can enjoy D&D and not have to serve in any of the armed forces as a result, I doubly profit from the ignorance of others.

1) The auther obviously hasn't had much contact with D&D since...oh...the early 70's, since they seem to assume the old distinction between Fighter, Mage and Elf still holds. The article seems to be a puff peace, intended to grab views more than anything else, so it's best not to pay much attention. 2) In the US, thousands of soldiers play role-playing games and suffer no persecution: often, it's seen as one of the more wholesome activities soldiers can engage in. D&D and Palladium's "Rifts" are two of the most popular games in the US military, especially for soldiers serving overseas. So don't think you can get out of the army just by claiming "devout-gamer" status. 3) Personally, I don't see how D&D is any different from a game of chess, backgammon or poker (all of which I'm sure the IDF has nothing against).

The reference to "dressing up like witches" was also amusing, as it showed a marked unfamiliarity with Dungeons & Dragons as a game: the only rpg-players I'm familiar with who MIGHT even consider "dressing up like witches" would be the very few LARP'ers who are also fans of White Wolf's late, lamented "Mage: The Ascension" game. Can we safely assume that, thanks to the author's own ignorance and failure to research/investigate the matter, "D&D" is here being used as a catch-all for any-and-all role-playing games? It would seem so.

You are a fucking liberal!!

It seems this article attracted the majority of gamers-defending their own- and just a minority of people-actually applauding- who are actually gamers. BUT-are as insencere to admit that they WOULD like to play a :Generic Action Role Playing Platform (GARPP) "no"-"the-sca-this"-"Larp-that" andso-on-andso-on -Is This How the Court rests? well -it is quite safe to say that most gamers(MI GI SEAL or special ops) who reacted have no clue about ( Military info. gath.)as done by IB-Tel-Aviv and MI-IDF seriously you are some serious sets of drones and none of you were ever in a country like Israel that you would know....... ....offcourse the article lies... ...the fact would be more amazing if it spoke the truth *yearn* it hurts my little heart to admit BUT yes, the average gamer especially those in the military field-have no clue about what a clearance-level means. First off-there is no(!)license affording clearance-anticipating allready?-WhatSoEveR-hehe !!if-duty-permits!! some of you would like to know what (military-intelligenc3)actually permits -outside- OxYmOrOnS-[hehe]. well....it is save to say that if oxymorons didn't exist MI wouldn't have a "viable" existence either-[hehe] it's true, "intelligence" needs it's oxy's to stay ahead of those who would own nuclear arsenals all by their own......but it uses also oxymorons imbedded in every individual RPGAMER or no? 2ndairy is the licensing of credits; intelligence-ver. need only plunder the corpses of nrpgamer-badguys-to make a good profit.[uhm]worth the trouble-. Moreso is it Trivial to the Fact-(which-I-will-with-hold) -That"some"people-have been to Russia-Israel-and the States-long ago and backagain-are able to cross-verify the "article"--well...people who do all that usually have a forged name and a whole set of documentations which seem "transparant" and-all-explaining. -When stopped by local "police"they DON"T !need(?)any licence or documentation explaining their buisness and going's-on (why?) now that's something of a secret-atleast-a-protocol-not easily explained without "leaking" but it is an international code off conduct-and easily understood by all officers of the law -judges-and the like-....... FurtherMore you DON"T ususually "need" any "forged documents to travel anywhere!-but this is all beside the point-! do any of you people (besides that guy from Haifa) know the REAL facts about !particulary! D&D it's popularity and exactly HOW[?] popular in either Israel or Russia at the start of the last decade of the previous century? no! not even that guy from Haifa I assume........ ...well whatever TSR might really stand for it is not: Tragic Slow Responses [hehe]. naive cute maybe even liberals Gamers come in all sizes classes and sorts but !most! of them are really lousy at keeping a secret for all too long-They Just Want To Be Honest-and very ad.lit. when it comes to OPINIONS(which is this article)and no certainly not very realistic in REAL life. Why-Not? well I would like to explain further but-somehow-I-just-know... ....you will understand, SOON (i promise k?)

watch movie at http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/90046 to see.

I guess we'll all have to keep our 20-sided dice hidden now. D&D stands for Don't ask/Don't tell or Dishonorably Discharged. I'm posting this to my blog! http://anachronista.blogspot.com/

If these two Ds are a problem for the Israelies, perhaps the Disciples of the Jade Dragon could put an end to their threat. Tell me, is there a distiguishing characteristic that we could use to seperate these "D"s? Are they siblings, perhaps? Our Samurai will despatch them easily, I'm sure, with the support of Hikaru, Shugenja of Tyllar. You have nothing to fear either D or D any longer. *bows*

Judges ch 7 gives a concise account of an army burdened with RPG recruits. No wonder the IDF is so careful! Poor Midianites...

I would not tolerate a soldier playing at my table. They often are too prone to obey without thinking. And also, they tend to favor violent solutions while diplomatic options are opened. Well, this is not true in fact. I have been playing with soldiers. They can be particularly good team leaders and have a pragmatic way of thinking. They lack of imagination, though. (well, these are general facts I remarked. Neither always true nor statistically measured)

The isrealy militry has had a strange recruitment policy for years. Recruits are not accepted into sensitive positions if they are judged to have a tendancy to doubt the morality of their armies actions. Isreal is one of the poorest democracies in the world because of this trend. Conscription exists and militry service is a powerful political tool. so liberals are often denied such political leevearg or the chance to play whistle blower. the fact that a lot of roleplyayers are so treated is probably a testements to them and their ideals

I can not remember the last time I met a D&D player that was physically fit to serve in any armed force. Escapism has many faces which include drinking, drugs, gambling, prostitution etc. Perhaps the IDF should address those as well.

As a matter of fact, those of us working at DSA relied and continue to rely on the theory that role-playing can have serious psychological benefits. I've yet to be disappointed. www.developmentalsupport.com

Is this Shaul Mofaz's Doing? If so, what a dumb-a$$! Don't be a Mama Uzi, be a Papa Uzi, Shaul! Sheol, Sheol, why are you persecuting me?!

Doom i said! Doom! D&D is Satan's Seed, why we don't burn all books and players? In medieval it worked... To be honest I'm RPG player since 1998 and I know that this kind of hobby could influence weak psychics. Well I'm felling allright, studying on university, healthy and very intelligent(148 IQ). I've been training martial arts and sports. I don't think d&d influenced me in negative way. I like this kind hobby. Well maybe someday they figure that D&D cause prostate cancer, WFRP cause leukemia and WoD is creating satanists... Crazy...

You mean to tell me that my country's army is so prejudice as to do such a thing? to make a brutal seperation between D&D players and every other person who joins the army? Well then, maybe someone's ought to remind them that it's a citzen's DUTY to join the army in Israel !!! so what you tell me now, is that not only will I have to pass countless tests, checks and god knows what else to have the 'honor' of serving in a good position in the army, but I must also shape my personality and choices so that the allmighty army will be pleasesd with them??? (offcourse I could just lie, but I'm not sure that telling people to lie abaut who they are and what they do is much better then dictating it to them!) It really is a cry and shame that in the 21st centuary we have people (in positions of power -the army- ) that are still stuck somewhere in the 16th centuary, and instead of leaving theire prejudice thoughts aside and face the truth (D&D players are mostly INTELLECTUAL people, and they have some of the most UNIQUE and STRONG personalitys, that I have ever seen!). it seems to me like these security officials and who-ever is responsible for these desicions, have simply found a new way to "dispose" of the "different" ones. At least we're not being burnt alive for playing D&D, we're just treated as an unequal part of socity. A lower, weaker personality, detached from reality, tending to be influenced, and unworthy for serving in 'sensitive' IDF positions, citzens. Just like you. I play the game for over 5 years now... does it seems to you like I have any problem with standing on my own (after facing each and every single one in my way who had a problem with that)? or maybe a 'weak' personality? or how abaut being detached from the reality, of this complete joke they call the IDF? (no offence. there are very serius people there who are worthy of all the credit, but some others are obviously too cought with their prejudice opinions). I like playing this game, and I'm proud of it people!!! and if the IDF has a problem with that, then maybe they should move back to using swords and axes themselves (cause theire mids are obviously still somewhere in the 16th centuary). sorry for the spelling mistakes...

Darkon is a live-action Role Playing Game. But rather than struggle over a game board, players actually head out into parks and woods—then physically fight over virtual land in real battles. (Not to worry—the weapons are usually padded.) Co-director Andrew Neel decided this was a social phenomenon worth noting, so he’s putting together a Darkon documentary called, yes, DARKON... http://www.darkonthemovie.com