Please get educated - you look stupid each time

Approx 2 years ago, most of the world except for Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau and the United States( text) voted again for "the Palestinian people have the right to self-determination and to sovereignty over this territory (occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem)" http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0405/S00074.htm It is time Israel joins the rest of the world. Negotiate, exchange land and solve the rest of the issues with E. J'lem, the refugees and the settlements that may remain. Otherwise, prepare for another decade of bloodshed if Israel does not embrace this. We need asolution for a just peace. Nothing half ass will work.

wow, he grows balls after robbing the palestinian people for decades, losing power, running out of money, and hearing olmert say he's waiting until the end of the year to establish borders unilaterally. now, after waiting about 40 years, the jews get to roll the clock of history backward for the sake of the palestinians. The jews and the world have to stop moving forward until the palestinians catch up.

You always have the choice of rotting in gaza, just make your choice quickly.

I never said he held a passport in 1914....i said he was born in 1914 and the passport i have was issued in the late 30's ! I suggest that you reread the post! And i quote myself " i have the document under my eyes, a British PALESTINIAN passport dating from 1936 !"

There is something sad to see people arguing about irrelevant niceties. Sad and not funny because it is a not so innocent way to refuse to look at the reality on the ground, the occupation by our soldiers, including me during my military career, of a land whose people don't want us. Period. The rest is litterature, denial, evasion, lost time. They don't want us : so either we leave or they leave. Period.

It sucks for the losers of war huh. Golan will never be returned, no matter how many angry Syrians are running around up there. Syria will never get the mountain back. They should have never tried to destroy Israel.

Ramzi, please please please get involved in the PA/government and become prime minister or something of the like. You've got a great vision and a level head, the world (and the region) need more people like you. One person truly can make a difference.

Dear Mr. Abbas, If the '67 were so good why did the Arabs start a war??

If, instead of typing always the same page without even thinking, you would stop one second, you could do me the favour of answering to my arguments : ISRAEL ITSELF RECOGNIZES THE OCCUPATION, first politically (M. Sharon himself) and now legally.

who proudly proclaims " There is no such thing as Judea and Samaria." Who said? The book of lies have you been reading? Then 35 writes: "The world has changed since 2,000 years ago." Wouldn't convince me of that when not a moment passes without the barbarism of your people who are truly living in a world of 2 thousand years ago. My oh my do you contradict yourself!!!!!! As G. Goldwater stated with facts to back it up in 39.....I would suggest idiot jihadist loving liars such as yourself might do well to understand FACTS CAN NOT BE DISPUTED. NEVER!! Back to my post #12. It is just a shame that our elected world leaders are as 'intentionally blind-sighted' as 39 when it comes to denial of COLD HARD FACTS. The lies run as deep as the protection by those who spew and protect the lies.

Dunam per Dunam, Its fine! I am with you on this point! Its a great idea, and its the most logical solution! But As we all know, this conflict is based on values to, for example, on any piece of the land, there is possibility to make this land swap, BUT on the issue of jerusalem, it will be totally impossible due to local beliefs and values! And this is a FACT! so for instance, you take maaleh adumim, you give us something on the same level FROM 1948 Israel...we accept it! ...thats for the land swap! ...now what else? let me see..... Palestinians as well as israelis will forget all about the past the day a peace agreement will be signed and will look a little bit like what everyone would imagine ! Remember, a happy population is a population who has amnesia! WE WILL FORGET THE PAST! All of us, Palestinians and israelis! we cant be enemies forever! Anyways....This is probably what the final solution will look like! Now for the Barak offer back then, the situation was totally different thats for ONE...for two, barak himself admited that he didnt have enough votes in the knesset to make it come true, third, there was no solution for the palestinian refugees, they are important to us and we cant forget them! We need a comprehensive solution for them, they are part of us! Just like the Diaspora jews who are part of you! Then, don't forget that back then, Arafat was in a very difficult situation, after netanyahoo closed all the doors, Hamas became much stronger and a Palestinian Radical opposition was BORN! And Arafat in fact made the BEST DECISION by not accepting, because not only he would have had Hamas on his back, but some of his populations, all the refugees, the arab world, and many others! The situation wouldn't have been any better than how it is now!lets be realistic, The only solution is COMPREHENSIVE negotiations on equal grounds! WE ALL MUST ACCEPT EVERYTHING OR ALMOST EVERYTHING! otherwise , we will never have any solution! I shall remind you that the Barak plan was an Israeli PLAN without any palestinian opinion inside it and the Maps presented to the Palestinian delegation back then were nothing close to what we expect and Barak refused to modify anything! But the most important thing that we all have to remember is that BARAK NEVER HAD THE PARLIEMENTARY SUPPORT TO ACCOMPLISH HIS PLAN, how can you trust someone that is not trusted by his own people ? Oh i shall remind you that this plan included a clause about the Palestinian state being tottally dependant on israel : No border control , no arms, no army, no national space....we cant accept this! I hope my response satisfied you...

My friend, My answer to you is quite simple : We have to TRUST THEM just like they WILL HAVE TO TRUST US ! Otherwise no need to loose our time negotiating! Trust will hopefully get built between the nations! And what we all have done to each other ,we have to learn from it and give it to history! Look at France and Germany : France was under german occupation during the second world war , now France and Germany are very important allies, One can almost not live well without the other! .... Nevertheless, Germans killed french, terrorized them, humiliated them! But all this had to be forgotten at some point of history and i think that its our turn to reach that point! When i say that we have to FORGET i dont mean forgetting EVERYTHING, i mean forgetting our HATE to each other! The rest is very important and is the foundation of our nations! Nations in order to live need to be in conflict with other nations, or at least need a conflict in their PAST! We ALL HAVE TO ADMIT that we want peace and that peace is the key to our well being! And hopefully, one day an israeli government will recognize the fact that we got persecuted at some point and that there was an excessive use of power, and that Another Palestinian goverment will recognize that we engaged in a dangerous bloody war against civilians who had nothing to do with all the conflict! nobody has to be an appologist! WE just need to get back to our humanity and each one of us has to recognize his mistakes, otherwise the families of our dead and their dead will never be able to complete their greiving process! Anyways...... I hope this talkback answers your question

1) You posted that the UNSCR 242 and 338 were "recommendations" My understanding is that "General Council Resolutions" such as Nov. 29 1947's are "recommendations", but UNSCR's (security council resolutions) are considered law. Is this not the case? 2) It's true that the 1949 Armistice agreement did not set the permanent border between Israel and a future Arab state in the WB, because except for Jordan's unrecognized annexation, no recognized political party existed in the WB to agree to those boundaries. In other words, Israel's boundary was accepted as it's boundary under int'l law, but the dispute was over whether the remainder of the WB would be divided between Israel and the Arabs, or be given to the ARabs exclusively. The recognition was not symmetrical, but that does not mean that Israel did not have internationally recognized boundaries.

The problem is that the "whole world" didn't see things your way all the time. Until 1973's oil crisis only radical leftists supported the Palestinin narrative. You can't flip a coin 100 times and lose, and say you win just because it goes your way the 101st time. You have to recognize that there is a legitimate dispute about these lands and whether they are exclusively reserved for a Palestinian state, or whether Jews have a right to at least some of it. For sure, it's crazy to say that the confict should be continued over 5 or 10% of the WB that would be prohibitively expensive to withdraw from - rather, it's more reasonable to exchange Arab cities in Israel for Jewish cities in the WB. This way, both nations get the most of what they want - it's not a just solution for you or for me, but it's workable and it's literally possible to live wth it.

I believe that the previous Palestinian government would be very satisfied to get Palestinian state under the 1967 borders, and they didn't ask for more than this border, they never talked about 48 land. Barak gave Arafat good offer when it comes to land, BUT he didn't solve the problem of refugees, Jerusalem and controlling the borders and many other issues which are essentials for Palestinians, his offer was like a package, weather you accept it as it is or refuse it!

I SUGGEST THAT YOU ALL USE YOUR REAL NAMES ! I can't understand why you are hiding your identity, you are not doing anything wrong! In order to count properly , WE NEED TO SHOW OUR REAL IDENTITIES! We have nothing to fear! Anyways...it's your call....

"Otherwise, prepare for another decade of bloodshed if Israel does not embrace this." What this is all about is another opportunity created yet again by your terrorist leaders for more bloodshed! The veil is lifted! Did you forget the Camp David accords which the bloodthirsty Palestinians turned their backs on?? And what about OSLO? Who is the giver and who is the taker, Bethlemhemite? Having sited just two of many examples of WHO turned to bloodshed....DO NOT TELL ME WHAT ISRAEL WILL GET -----> IF THEY DO NOT EMBRACE THIS OFFER. Understand? This is no offer just another trick. Luckily your people are lucky for the more they slaughter, lie and cheat the truth, the more they have been turned into the victims by the whole of the world. If people residing in Israel were not Jews but some other religion, I guarantee the Palestinians would not have gotten away with 1/10th of what they have. Furthermore, count yourselves lucky the HUMANITY OF JEWS rises above our good sense for otherwise there might not be Palestinians lying, denying facts and worse slaughtering the innocent anymore. couldn't put it it more plain terms....!

If there was once an Arab country called Palestine then: 1. Where was its capital city? 2. Who was its 1st King? I look forward to your replies...

back to Tunis where he belongs

referendum is a great idea. even better wouldbe a push to an agreement between both sides that can be agreed on, and then a referendum on both sides on the SAME DAY...the key is to push for peace with creative ideas, and i think this is a creative idea and a good one.

What you say is all very well and good, except that Gabby attacks just about everyone on this site. As an earlier poster noted, Gabby's tone is very disturbing---not unlike a certain Xian who regularly posts here. Possibly one and the same! I’m all for giving normal people a break: Jew, Arab, or Xian.

Riv, i dont like the tone of your message, its too aggressive .....Keep this spirit and believe me, one day you will hit the wall! BAM......!!!! This applies to everyone trying to be aggresive over here....Violence never pays!

As you are the brilliant man ..living in London.... would you teach our ellected president ABBAS what is your suggestions to reach the borders of 67 or maybe you have other ideas about 48 lands. Any way this is just to remind you that ABBAS is an ellected palestinian president... and that without PLO there would be nothing now called Palastine....

Mustafa, thanks for answering. I think Israelis have realized what the Palestinians need to realize, which is that it's not about what satisfies us, it's also about what satisfies the other side and what we can "live with". I mean that literally and figuratively. To do this, you need to understand what the other side needs. If you do, you'll understand that the only solution to the refugee problem is to put it in the past and resolve it with monetary settlements, and the right to settle in the new Palestinian state. This is the way all refuguee problems are solved in other places, and holding onto this grudge will simply cause the conflict to continue. It's time to put it aside and talk about what's possible and feasible. Regarding land, as you said, I think you're understanding that this is probably the easiest problem to solve. The point is that Israel can't solve it's problem with a disatissfied Palestinian Israeli population without jettisoning the state's Jewish character, which we won't do. The solution with the Palestinians can be part of the means for resolving this issue, too. Therefore, part of the solution will likely need to be, whether you want land from outside the 67 borders or not, a bi-directional transference of sovereingty such that Arab's who have Israeli citizenship and live on border communities will become part of the Palestinian state, and Jews who live in the WB in enclaves close to the border will come under Israeli sovereingty. You may not think this is fair to those who want Israeli citizenship, but it can be seen as reasonable, because it's not right that Israelis house a hostile population that can as easily and rightfully be ruled by their own people who share their cultural and national narrative. Remember that the '67 boundaries are not sacrosanct. We are speaking of a political solution, not one that gives all sides the "justice" that we desire. THe reason "Justice' isn't possible is that each of our versions is at the expense of the other, and thus we can only achieve it by defeating the other totally. If that's what you want, bring it on and let's end this in one final no holds barred military confrontation, winner takes all. Otherwise, let's be reasonable and end this conflict.

Blind support for any principle, group of people, or even relegion is a serious problem that leads to catastrophy. it takes brave people to be self critical and admit wrong doing.... sadly our conflict is the worse when it comes to that, complete demonization of the other side, unheard-of levels of hate, and wishing death for the others as solution for the conflict are the norms... it is such a small conflict militarily, yet it could propably be one of the most dividing in human history...... so what is the solution? not easy of course .... but it could start by looking at reality for a moment, and asking our selves if it is really worth it? i say NO, nothing is worth loosing a loved one....... and nothing is worth the amount of hurt we cause other people in the name of country, ethnicity, relegion.....etc...!! We as palestinains should stop for a moment and think what kind of people we have become, that is much more important than anything else, internal fighting, violence against civilians, demise of values and morals, poverty, misery..... it is all not worth it!!! its time to move on and think straight.... and i think the same goes for the israelis too! any step that puts both nations on the track of peace is a good one, no matter how small it is.... by the way, SHAI T-A is a BRAVE PERSON WE SHOULD ALL LEARN FROM ,, my respects!

B"H I am interested what, if anything, Abbas has to say in 40 days time. This seems like some more positioning for the international media to grab onto, but what is the voice of a street that elected Hamas? That result is scheduled to take awhile. In the meanwhile, it seems like 40 days falls within Olmert's end of year schedule, so the process proceeds apace. No need to panic or help. The Arabs have a decision to make and there is no reason to influence that.

Thanks for your answer. I don't think we see the Barak proposal the same way at all. President Clinton, who was directly involved in those negotiations, described it much differently. There are people with agendas on both sides who would like to give you a reason to believe it wasn't a good offer, but they're wrong. Anyway, the best thing to do was not as you claim, to refuse the offer, but to accept it and let it fall in Knesset if that's what would have happened. You would have had nothing to lose then, right? Frankly, that's what they predicted would happen to Sharon, and it didn't. To my mind, it shows how wrong minded Palestinians are to play politics rather than realpolitik. You should have either made reasonable counter offers that addressed Israeli concerns, or accepted the agreement as is and let Israel drop the ball in Knesset. As it stands though, Palestinians just look like unrealistic people who not only can't see opportunities when they arise and take advantage of them, but a people who are irrational and willing to fight forever for irrational reasons. One example is what you said - you think Israelis don't feel the pain of harming our brothers like those in Gaza for the sake of peace? When will Palestinians be ready to do the same? When will you realize there is no high principle in liberating every speck of land by spilling yours and our blood? When you recognize that the issue of refugees is not going to be resolved inside Israel, even though you feel this will be stabbing your brother in the back, you'll be ready to make the kind of concessions that will lead to peace. Until then, you're not there yet. You can't get without giving, Ramzi. That's the reality of "negotiations".