Opinion  Soapbox
Can the pope be wrong?
David Verveer
Published: 19.09.06, 17:36
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31. Pope is..
Semon ,   Niece FR   (09.20.06)
Un-educated full of hate gay, sry (guy) GO AND READ HISTORY, even which wrote by us , christians ! (sensored) our fake bible and fake popy
32. TO # 15 , Mention that too ..
Semon ,   Niece FR   (09.20.06)
... you put a passage that YOU CUT OUT! You should try POSTING the whole meaning; the verses BEFORE and AFTER. You want me to paste verses that describe your stereotyping and anger about Islam in the subject of killing? Then so be it. From Chapter 2: Surat Al Baqarah: [191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. [192] But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 193] And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. [194] The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who RESTRAIN themselves. Once again, you're ignoring what the Quran totally says, and you take parts of the meanings and try to create a lie about Islam. You will never succeed. Islam is the truth. Islam came to complete Judaism and Christianity, the People of the Book. Islam is about worshipping the One True God, the Unique, the Creator, the Sustainer. You know what your problem is ...? You know what you're confused about? Some Christian scholars even admit this, any person with common sense knows this. We all really worship the same God. We call God by the name of ALLAH. You call him...I think Yahweh? I'm not sure. But by you saying we believe in a different god, you're starting polytheism, and that's not what religion is about. We worship the same God; you just understand God differently and believe different things (including names) about him. And by you trying to change history, or lying about it, that's pretty dumb. Historians admit many things that agree with Islam, its just people like you that try to create lies to coincide with Islamic History. And about KILLING, more verses, since you won't understand: They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades*, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. *I'll define Renegade from www.dictionary.com Renegade: –noun 1. a person who deserts a party or cause for another. Of course, you don't want understanding; just lies and deceptions. You still didn't answer Paperduck on my Trinity question; it seems as though you gave up, you're unable to explain. What a failure. HEY read and learn well, dont watch CNN or Fox, as all we does, Info and more from ..http://discover.islamway.com/
33. Pope is a human
Ari Sinambela ,   Jakarta, Indonesia   (09.20.06)
Pope is a human, eating, sleeping and resting like us. Can be or do wrong and sinful things.Those who close their eyes and heart to these realities can be considered as illogic living things walking on earth. Pope John Paul 2 is a good example of a leader.
34. Stupid article
Sidney ,   USa   (09.20.06)
What the pope said happened to be true. Even if not, like the Danish cartoons it did not merit the Muslim violence. To paraphrase Bill Clinton's campaign theme, "It's the Muslims, stupid".
35. Can Pope be wrong? Can a man be wrong? Certainly.
(09.20.06)
He is fallible like any other human. The "infallibility" notion is the Catholic Doctrine of "Pope Deity" and therefore "infallibility". Pope Deity is from Ancient Roman Caesar worship and deification. Many Jews and Jewish Christians (Jews being the original Christians) were slaughtered for refusing to bow in violation of Torah. Antipas [not Herod] was such a Jewish Christian martyr. "Bow Antipas! The whole world is against you." Antipas replied, "Then Antipas is against the whole world." The last Emperor of Rome and the first Pope was Constantine. When confronted with the wretched debilitation and unavoidable destruction of Rome, Constantine sought to preserve Rome by "latching onto" Christianity. The same Christianity (originally and primarily Jewish) which Rome had once so thoroughly persecuted. The followers of Jewish Jesus Christ were peaceful but outspokenly revolutionizing the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Messiah. Billions of Christian's are not Catholic due to the pervasive pagan influences in the Catholic Doctrine. Bowing - praying to "saints" and "secret confessions" hails from the cult influence of Ahab and Samiramis. Most Catholics, indeed, most religion practitioners don't know the roots, influences or doctrines of Catholicism or the religions they "adhere" to. One redeeming quality is they are correct in Jesus Christ is the Son of God and by Him alone are we are saved from Hell (eternal separation from God) and brought into right relationship with God. In Christianity and Judaism the scriptures are the absolute guideline, not "religious writings on scripture", not "dissertations on scripture", but scripture. Scripture is the acid test for all such doctrines, notions, dissertations and beliefs; understand what you believe, why you believe it, and most importantly, does it stand up to scripture.
36. Well hells bells---maybe all three religions
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (09.20.06)
should start killing tha crap out of one another by the Authors own words. Why should the other religions that are not killing by the sword, raise the question of the Muslims still doing just that, in this day and age. Maybe the Christians, Budhists and every other religious sect ,should just copy what the Muslims are doing, rather than bringing it to the worlds attention. Lets start killing all the infidel Muslims in Jesus's name. Or Buddah, or some other strange religious sect. Why bother bringing up what the Muslims are practicing. Just copy them and lets kill everyone. If the emperor was butchering people in the name of Catholics today---then the author would have a point. He has done a good job of giving the Muslims cover and ignoring the problem entirely. Those poor Muslims don't want to be reminded of the Barbarism of thier religious leaders in the 21st Century? Bravo!!!!! Iran has forgotten the holocaust also! What shall we atheists do? Let them lop off our heads also?
37. liberal hogwash
Simon ,   LBblon   (09.20.06)
Such liberal hogwash written by a Jew!!! And we the Israelis inflame the Muslims as well?! let the Muslims learn there is such a thing as freedom of speech!!! And you don't threaten to kill people just because you don't like what they say ... more people have to offend them and stick to it...maybe they will learn!! and while its true many religious used the sword, they are "currently" using these tactics to kill people and freedom!!! Wake up! The Muslim religion is violent and preaches violence! Its he only religion where the leader actually killed thousands of Jews and had sex forcibly with thousands of woman ... learn you history!
38. 13 Fadi by your logic then you put forth
freedom ,   canada   (09.20.06)
the notion that Islam is spread by the sword. I dont neccessarily agree, what I dont like is the lack of religious tolerance in the middle east. Very much so against Israel, any religion of god must know that jews as well are part of God. So if the middle east has a problem with Jews they are in disharmony with God.
39. mediocre writing style...
raanalya ,   seattle   (09.20.06)
...to convey prosaic (and wrong) ideas...
40. Was th e pope wrong?
Bob ,   USA   (09.20.06)
It is interesting that, while muslims riot and bomb over the comments of the pope, none have stepped forward to say that what the pope said is factually incorrect. What he said is true: Islam wants to conquer the world through force. They don't deny this. They just don't like the pope saying the truth publicly.
41. Why?????
Samiramis ,   CA, USA   (09.20.06)
doesn't the pope take care of solving the scandals of the sexual harrasments in the catholic church before he criticizes other religions?
42. You mean can he ever be right
Josh   (09.20.06)
By his nature as a religious leader he is parralel to a politician
43. Don't say anything--shhhhhh
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (09.20.06)
They won't notice you are wearing a yamuka. Those tolerant people of the muslim classes. Watch out for the sword though. ouch!!!
44. #38 - Absolutely
(09.20.06)
45. Can the Pope be wrong?
David Verveer ,   Kfar SAba, Israel   (09.20.06)
My argument is not, if the statement made by the Pope is correct but why it was made. If you would have read my article carefully, instead of using this talkback in publishing your opinions (some, indeed very interesting), you would have realized that I agreed completely with the Pope, and all those who warn about the danger of Islamic radical terror, worldwide, however, I do not understand his urge to make this statement, as he, like millions others, realizes what is happening today, knows that such statements do not change the facts, but provide an excuse for extremists to riot (and riots causes suffering to innocent bystanders). Having said the above, I do not claim that the Islam is more or less aggressive than other religions and people, (I myself, am an Holocaust survivor) the problem of today is not religion, but those Islamic leaders, manipulating anything available, in order to spread chaos (the aim of terror). The Pope added fuel to the fire, without having any tools to extinguish the flames. This is irresponsible behavior for a World leader, and if he does not admit such mistake because he is the Pope, he is just like the fable’s Emperor, who went nude, because he believed to be infallible. To the kind writer, who wrote that the naked body is beautiful, I agree, but would prefer to acclimatize, with younger than the pope, models, what do you say, the next Pope, a female, around 21 years old? David Verveer
46. # 18 and # 19
(09.20.06)
GOD NEEDS TO OPOLOGIZE TO ME FOR GIVING ME LIFE AND LIVE AROUND U AND MANY OTHER HATRED EVILS LIKE U ARE
47. # 27 Daisy, so do most
USA   (09.20.06)
NEO-FASCIST AND NEO-NAZIS when it comes to Jews and Muslims. Daisy go back to writing about ducks, it is more becoming of you. AND if you want the Muslims to kiss your A$$, then mark a spot. You are all A$$!!
48. #46 NO NAME
peggy ,   now in Israel   (09.20.06)
to scared to put your name ???? No one needs to apologise to drek like you OK ...the evil is all in your ballpark, so stop crying when you hear the truth!
49. 46-God does not apologize to you. Read Job.
(09.20.06)
50. To the writer David Verveer
gm ,   south africa   (09.20.06)
I think you need to take a look at history. I don't ever recall a time that Judaism used the sword to spread their religion and converts others such as muslims or christians. I do, however, recall MANY times in history Jews have DEFENDED themselves to protect their religion from christians and muslims and this still goes on today.
51. Clearly the Pope Wasn't Wrong ... So Why Does He Cower?
Nave Dave   (09.20.06)
and it's a shame he even apologized as much as he did. The enormous and knee-jerk violent Muslim response proved the pope right. So, why does he now cower and backpaddle by saying that the ancient text he quoted does not speak his own opinion? It should be his opinion, given the way Muslims kill people for converting to Christianity and kill nuns and ransack monestaries and claim they don't care if they lose half the country they lead if it brings the end of Israel. As for pope's being infallible, the Catholic church has reiterated endlessly that the pope is only infallible on matters of Christian theology and morality. That is the area in which he supposedly receives revelation from God.
52. Pope
Bobo ,   Mechanicsburg, PA US   (09.20.06)
The Pope finally says something that needed to be said publically for a long time and is correct and pertinent to the day's events and then he goes and spoils it and appoligizes for the pain that it may have caused Moslems. Phew!
53. They were waiting de Pope
jwishman ,   BA, AR   (09.20.06)
For people ready to take everything as an offence, who are waiting your words or acts to catch you, whatever you say, whatever you do, in effect, will taken wrong.
54. TO FADI of lebanon
tommy ,   belfast UK   (09.20.06)
It is amazing just how muslims distort history to suit their purposes--The crusades were a defensive measure to stop muslims doing--Guess What-- murdering the nonmuslim pilgrims. and another thing --the only science (if you can call it that) to come out of islam is neat writing anything else was down to the dhimmis that existed at the time and when the dhimmis were no longer there,the "golden era" was over
55. how you all think
samer ,   germany   (09.20.06)
whatever u say god will do his will and you all will wait till it is coming and in that time we all see who is the winner but the question is hey israeli how much r u sure that you can live in island and the moslem andarabic ocean around i hope that this island is strong enough to handle long wish u luck dud
56. One has to look at the world since 9/11......
idlee ,   USA   (09.20.06)
to understand why the Pope chose to explain that it is not in the nature of God to condone violent and terror. For a leader of a great religion, he has to concern himself with the sufferings of so many innocents in the hands of those who kill in the name of their religion. Seeing it in this context, one can then understand the reason behind those remarks that he made. The bottom line is that the Pope sees the need to speak up for the good of humanity. Nobody gets hurt for speaking ill of Christianity but nobody gets away for speaking ill of Islam. Is this fair?
57. #51 I beg to differ
idlee ,   USA   (09.20.06)
Knowing the minds of the Muslims, he does it to save lives. As you already know, a nun has been killed and churches burnt down. He certainly does not want to see more bloodshed. Maybe you and I and all Christians storms Heaven with our prayers to implore the Lord to intervene just like in the days when Moses pleaded with the Lord to save his people from the Egyptians.
58. # 35, Constantine the Pope?
Chris ,   Warsaw, Poland   (09.20.06)
You wrote: "The last Emperor of Rome and the first Pope was Constantine." Of course Constantine was not the first pope since he was not pope at all. And in any way he was not the last Roman Emperor. It seems that the rest of your anti-Catholic ponderings are equally valuable. Have a nice day.
59. What a stupid article
Joe   (09.20.06)
Never saw such a "negative" article. He meant what he said and he has all the right to. Time you should wake up and smell the air you're unfit to write............
60. Can the Pope be wrong?
anne macpherson ,   Vancouver Canada   (09.20.06)
Apprently David Verveer, the author of "Can the Pope be wrong?" either does not know Catholic theology or is saying something very misleading. The Pope CAN be wrong in his OPINIONS. The Pope is not "infallible" in everything that he happens to utter. The Pope is "infallible" when he pronounces or clarifies a dogma of the Church that has to do with the Faith itself period. This is the kind of illusion that non-Catholics continually adhere to in order to mislead the ignorant. So David belongs in this category too.
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