The problem of the Holy Land will never be resolved until all the Jews go back home to Europe and return Palestine to their rightful Palestinian owners..

I have to admit I feel that even a two-state solution seems a long way off right now. Israeli aggression needs to stop as does Palestinian retaliation. YET, as Michael Neumann wrote in an article about his road map for Israel and Palestine: "The US, Israel and several Western powers demand that Hamas renounce violence and recognize the state of Israel. "Here's the problem: violence is the only pressure the Palestinians can exert on Israel. No one else is applying any pressure, of any sort. Suppose the Palestinians did indeed renounce violence and recognize the state of Israel. Why would Israel have any reason to do anything other than what it pleases? "There are perhaps some limits on this: perhaps Israel would not dare actually to wipe out the Palestinians, or push them over some border at the cost of many thousands of Palestinian lives. Suppose this is true. Nevertheless Israel would have not the slightest incentive to change any of its present conduct. In that case, the Palestinians would continue to starve and the settlements would continue to expand. "This would be a heavenly gift to Israel. .... "Suppose we want peace in Palestine. That would require something more practical than asking the Palestinians to sign their own death warrant. And it would require something more practical than all the well-intentioned plans for negotiated settlements that Israel sees no interest in pursuing." http://members.tripod.com/~mneumann/peace.htm As long as we adhere to a barbaric dominator worldview in politics and religion, I feel we'll just get more of what we've been getting - more war, more domination, more violence and competition, rather than cooperation, partnership, equality, negotiation, peace. I wonder what would spark such a transformation of peoples around the world ...........

I have to admit I feel that even a two-state solution seems a long way off right now. Israeli aggression needs to stop as does Palestinian retaliation. YET, as Michael Neumann wrote in an article describing his road map for Israel and Palestine: "The US, Israel and several Western powers demand that Hamas renounce violence and recognize the state of Israel. "Here's the problem: violence is the only pressure the Palestinians can exert on Israel. No one else is applying any pressure, of any sort. Suppose the Palestinians did indeed renounce violence and recognize the state of Israel. Why would Israel have any reason to do anything other than what it pleases? "There are perhaps some limits on this: perhaps Israel would not dare actually to wipe out the Palestinians, or push them over some border at the cost of many thousands of Palestinian lives. Suppose this is true. Nevertheless Israel would have not the slightest incentive to change any of its present conduct. In that case, the Palestinians would continue to starve and the settlements would continue to expand. "Suppose we want peace in Palestine. That would require something more practical than asking the Palestinians to sign their own death warrant. And it would require something more practical than all the well-intentioned plans for negotiated settlements that Israel sees no interest in pursuing." http://members.tripod.com/~mneumann/peace.htm As long as we adhere to a barbaric dominator worldview in politics and religion, I feel we'll just get more of what we've been getting - more war, more power over other peoples, more violence, rather than cooperation, partnership, equality, negotiation, peace. I wonder what would spark such a transformation of peoples around the world.

Ray - "Said wrote one of only two books about the causes of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict worth reading: “The Question of Palestine.” The other was written by my mentor and Said’s colleague, Ibrahim Abu-Lughod, “The Transformation of Palestine.” Sorry if I understood from that that there are only two books on the subject worth reading. #58 - Did you know that Deir Yassin was a town that bombarded and ambushed jewish convoys to jerusalem. Since there was only one main road it was crucial to secure it. A "massacre" may or may not have happened there, but whatever did happen happened for a reason. It is very easy to spew out propaganda... not easy to actually know what you are talking about...

This Michael Neumann? http://www.honestreporting.com/articles/critiques/A_Nihilist_on_Anti-semitism.asp

As we understand the importance of the 2 state solution is paramount and we must not give up hope in it. As soon as the Hamas headcases are watered down into this unity govenment then it looks pesimistic but we must remember that Israel too is just as important in making this happen and must renounce its violent and indiscriminate attacks on the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip. Personally i believe that an international force (as recently suggested) should take control of this and the Quartet needs to up its priority on this issue. We need a 2 state solution to end the misery of this unjust illegal and disgraceful occupation (and as far as im aware frequent land incursions and violations of air and naval space in Gaza by Israel does not mean that Israel has disengaged and on the contrary is still very much engaged in Gaza and you only have to turn on your news channel to see this). If this 2 state solution doesnt come soon then the Palestinians will lose more and more land to the jews building illegal settlements because of increasing 'aliyah' to Israel as a result of rising anti-semitism in the world which is largely due to Israeli policy in the 1st place (not that i condone anti-semitism at all). A recent study has already suggested that a high percentage of these settlements are built on privately owned Palestinian land (though wasnt that obvious?). We cannot allow this to continue. I am a muslim but i thoroughly support the Jews and their right to exist in Israel but Israel to me is Israel and not the West Bank, Samaria, Golan Heights, Shebba Farms, Gaza Stip, East Jerusalam or the Sina or what some extremists claim "the nile to the euphrates". If these insane ideologies exist amongst jews in Israel today and moreover in the Government of Israel then there is truely no hope. Hamas: Recognise Israel, stop Qassams! Palestinians: Unrecognise Hamas! Fatah & Hamas: merge and be peaceful! IDF: Stop the devastating attacks! Israelis: Stop building settlements! Iranians: Stop interfering you trouble makers! International Community: Continue to condemn Israel for her gross actions when commited! World: Continue Aid to the Palestinian people! Politicians: Quit your islamic and jewish extreme ideologies! Mahmous Abbas: Keep up the good work and please dont resign! Olmert: Try that extra bit harder, you have most of the power and backing so you need to make that extra push. The 2 state solution is the ONLY viable and plausible answer. Until there are decent politicians on both sides who truely want peace then this wont be achieved. Currently, this is not the case. If the Unity Government in Palestine doesnt fall through then the only way this is going to work is for direct talking between Hamas and Israel, as crazy as it sounds.

Oops guess I didn't have to repost after all..... so it goes... spaced repetition? I really do wonder who will break the cycle of retaliation, revenge, "punishment" in Israel/Palestine? I heard the father of the assassinated Lebanese minister Pierre Gemayel, urge for calm, stating that "We don't want reactions and revenge." Perhaps that's what meant by Jesus' message about "turning the other cheek" -- just not resorting to retaliation. "He who seeks revenge should remember to dig two graves." says a Chinese proverb. How many graves will need to be dug in Israel/Palestine before the "suicide murders" stop? I mean, doesn't an "eye for an eye" really mean you murder someone and then they murder you - sounds suicidal to me! What insanity!

there are some interesting talkbacks on here regardless if unbalanced or biased. I look at it two ways: If i was living in the Gaza strip then i wouldnt wish for peace with Israel, and i would fight for my land till death. If i was living in a Israeli town near the Gaza and had to encounter regular rocket fire i would wish my govenment to go in to the Strip and root them up. What we have is a very very bad situation. In my native Cyprus from which i observe the Israel-Palestine issue i think back to the Turkish invasion. As a greek i can only have sympathy with the Palestinians as i know what it is like to have invading armies come into your home and destroy it causing mayhem. It is my honest belief that Israel as the fully soverign and independant state should not be allowed to get away with its campaigns and should be held accountable under interntational law as should Turkey for its crimes in Cyprus. I heard recently of an Israeli minister speaking of a cyprus style divide in the region as this was succesful. Well it wasnt. The Turkish north is illegaly occupied as are (and in the past) many neighboring states of Israel, the Golan etc. Israel should respect the international law and observe UN resolutions. What is the future? It must be hard living in a country with every day security and welfare fears. However look at the situation. You have resurgent Hezbollah to the north, the iranian-loved syrians to the north east, west bank militants in the east, and Hamas in an enclave practically within the borders of Israel. Military is NOT the way. DIPLOMACY is the way. Ray in this article speaks of a palestinian “shame” of compromise however the Israelis need to start speaking to their enemies on all sides otherwise they will be closed in and in a very dangerous situation. You cant fight your neighbors for ever. And there are many many arabs and muslims who are increasingly turning to the extreme resistance armies so the battle cant go on for ever. There is no peace until Israel withdraws from Palestine and until she observes the law. And wars like the lebanon one in the summer where Israel acted so bad are examples at how both parties are not ready to act. In Greece and in Cyprus we objected utterly to this war and the hundreds of killed lebanese. This isnt about religious or ethnicity. This is about humanity. Live and let live. No Double Standards. My thoughts are with both sides who suffer. You dont have to suffer. Elect people who actually want to see some progress. Stay away from America they are bad influence as have their own agenda which is not jewish. Yisrael for peace. Filistine for Peace!

I know what Leon (Pafos) means when he talks of anti-israeli sentiment in Cyprus and Greece. Here in France it was the same. In response to Israeli actions in the Lebanon in the summer, lots of people were so angry they got all the maps and atlas and scribbled Israel off the map in shock that a country could do this to many innocent civillians. This however was foolish and immature. To wipe Israel off the map is to say that all Israelis are guilty which is not true. In France we are educated so we do not blame ordinary people for the actions of the shameful Govenment or military. I wish this could be said for Israelis though. I watched a documentary on Israelis views on the situation and it was quite dismal with lots even saying "all arabs should be killed" and with no respect for their neigbours including the Egyptians and Jordanians who they have peace treaties with.. Since we have used our common sense in saying that all Israelis arent bad because of Israels bad actions it is time for Israelis to start defending the poor palestinians who are subject to Israels ignorant attacks on Gaza. Have a heart and dont rejoice when you see a nation of people without electricity or running water or basic rights. It is the cliché case of oppressed becoming oppresor and everyone knows that. The US are only supporting Israel as part of their greater War on Terror and ambitions in Iraq etc. Israel is gratful as it recieves its weapons of mass destruction from the US. As a jew myself i dont know what to say anymore. I have been critisized for speaking out against Israel but what choice do i have? Fact is Fact. And i dont entirely agree with what Tamar (66) said about Aliyah. People move for various reasons. I am an open Jew living in France and i havent been subject to anti-semitism because i have a brain and understanding and i dont say ridiculus things or been brainwashed. It is though wrong for every Jew to move to Israel fro two reasons. 1) there isnt enough room and this means more settlements = less chance of 2 state solution. 2) to have all jews in one place is naturally for obvious reasons dangerous (considering Irans goals) and also because this means less jews in the west so less dialogue and intergration and ultimate success which is what our ancestors did to such great levels. I am traveling to Israel for first time in new year so i will see for my self. Some peoples views here are quite scary and it makes me ashamed to be what i am. There was once a time when jew and muslim lived together and we flourished. Israel is living in a fantasy and needs to wake up before its too late. The situation for Israel is getting worse isnt it? A two nation solution is needed before our motherland is destroyed altogethr Hamas terrorist are just illusion there is no real threat. they have nothing. Israel does the damage. shalom

I find that quite offensive actually. And i have no desire to live in Saudi Arabia, even if i was allowed. Im just grateful i was given an honest and truthful education. People like you are clearly in denial; you only have to take a look at your screen name to see that. How anyone can take you seriously or even listen to your comments in the first place is beyond my imagination. Thank G-D your not in Israeli politics thats all i say. I am going to go and read my Tanakh now and think about what being a real jew is all about. Shalom

Thank goodness authors of Ray's "Talkbacks" are not ambasadors for the Jewish community. If anyone saw how some Jews express themselves in these columns, they may conclude any of the following: 1: We're the most arrogant people on the planet. 2: We are constantly arguing with ourselves and can't agree on anything except our own survival (except for our overly intellectual, secular Jews who can even rationalize Israel away). 3: We are even more emotional that a mad Itallian when it comes to expressing ourselves. (My appologies to my Italian friends who I'm sure understand and are probably laughing their heads off.) Those who have disagreed with Ray have some good points. Ray tends to see this conflict in its more recent form. He has no emotional ties to Israel or Judaism so he has not been very invested in getting all the facts and history balanced. BUT, and this is a very big BUT, he makes fool of all you hot heads. It is sooooo easy to provoke you guys just by presenting the Palestinian perception and the perception of those who do not agree with Jews or Israel. LIKE IT OR NOT PERCEPTION IS REALITY. . . to most people in the world and especially those in the radical, Muslim Mideast. Facts rarely matter in any world conflict. Might often makes right. Terrorism is just the most recent twist on this time honored reality. So to those who love to use this column to vent your feelings, I strongly recommend that unless you have mastered the art of sarcasm and the humor is obvious, confine your rantings to Ray's talkbacks so no one else gets any more wrong ideas about us Jews and decides to tune all of us out. Those of you with more diplomatic skills, please keep up the good work and continue to support and defend Israel in all venues. WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, EVERY JEW IS AN AMBASADOR FOR ISRAEL AND OTHER JEWS. At least that's how I see it.

So now we finally see that extremists on both sides have been preventing a solution since 1947. One part I see missing is the following. After partition, two thirds of the land was given to the Palestinians. Much of this is now Jordan. They didn't really want them either. It was too risky for their kingdom. So what do you think Ray? What is the Arab's responsibility in providing land for a Palestinian state? Egypt needs the Gaza like a hole in the head. They may want to consider securing that area from terrorism and eventually letting the Palestinians police themselves someday. All this providing the Israeli's could actually count on the Egyptians to enthusiastically police the Gaza. As far as Jordan is concerned, could they play a role in stabilizing and demilitarizing the West Bank? I believe a Jordanian/Egyptian solution to the Palestinian crisis is far preferable to anything offered by Hamas, Hizbolla, or that Amedidajan whatever lunatic, "twelver" from Iran.

I VERY much agree with you Stewart Miller! Ther are some right planks writing talkbacks on this page. All jews are representing Israel whethere we like it or not. Cant we have the return to some logic. I can expect some of these comments from the people living near Sderot or near as they are frustrated with the terrorism they face daily. But people living in Amerika or other places no excuse for idiocy. Jews here need to learn to start expressing themselves more eloquenlty. Otherwise nobody will take us seriously.

move in mansions of being and shacks of existence. love is all that life is. the sweeper is here now.

Hard to manage behavior of militants and radicals, is it not? Show the Arabs how to do it because they need help. Teach by example if your able ha ha haa

Stewart, you raise a good point and in a very courteous and respectful manner. I wish all Arabs and Jews, Israelis and Palestinians could conduct themselves this way ... we both fail sometimes as people. I don't believe the Arabs have a responsibility to provide land for the Palestinians separate from Israel's responsibility to compromise and return 67 land. Those are just my beliefs. Should Palestinians who live in the West Bank simply leave? I don't think so. Jordan stabalize the West Bank and create a partnership to help build a Palestinian State. Jordan stepped away from this process out of arrogance and anger, I think, when the issue was taken from them by the Arab League. Anyway, Jordan was never "given" to the Palestinians. It was defined as a Jordanian Arab state the same way the Allies carved out Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, etc. Arguing that Jordan is Palestine still misses the point. I'm Palestinian. I own land in Palestine and we owned homes and property in West Jerusalem. Simply packing us up and sending us to Jordan doesn't work. We can argue that but I think the better answer is to focus on two-states. We don't have to agree on how we view the past, but we should accept that each side has a right to define the past their own way. But, if we both wish to see a genuine end to the conflict, we have to learn from the past but define the future in a new way without using the past as an obstacle to ending this conflict. It requires real compromise on both sides. That's just my view. I think in the end, there are two possible outcomes: a two-state solution, or endless conflict. I don't believe Israel can defeat the Arabs or the growing Islamic movement. And I do believe that if the conflict is not resolved soon, Israel's risks continue to increase. I think the Israleis need to count on themselves and insure that a compromise results in security. The US would back it with money and arms. And then giving Palestinians a state would put the burden on moderates like me and (I believe there are many others like me) to fight the battle in our own community to help defeat the fanatics and extremists who use violence and who reject compromise and two-states. But it also means that you and other Israelis and Jews must stand up to those in your community who oppose compromise. Otherwise, this whole issue escapes our influence and continues unending, with more suffering, fear, terrorism, violence and conflict forever. I don't want that. I'm willing to set aside what I believe the Palestinians deserve and compromise, accept 1948, accept Israel, accept the need to resolve this without violence. Some may focus on my "narrative" as a problem, but I say we should focus on the ability to redefine the future for both sides. that's tough, not easy, but worth trying thanks Ray Hanania www.hanania.com

Neither has "Palestinian land. Answer my questions from post #42. I'm still waiting for your answers. What a liar and fraud you are.

Sometimes your own talkbacks are even better than the article.

you wait for the time needed, for terrorism to force the return of Palestinian land? Imagine if the indians were screwing up your neighborhood for land in Chicago. I could write about two state solutions to end the violence. Just give em back their land Ray....please. It's the right thing to do. But the Indians are all but forgotten by the same Palestinians terrorizing the Middle East. Welcome to my neighborhood. Like the city? We used to own it. We don't run around blowing up shopping centers to get it back though. You are justifying their bad behaviour Ray. Work on their behaviour.....then come back and get what you believe is rightfully theirs. It's funny you don't fight for American Indian land. Or any other land stolen by others. That's why you end up justifing their bad behaviour. You don't want to deal with the bad behaviour until the Palestinians get their land back. This condones the bad behaviour to achieve the goal of getting Palestinian land back. But you sit on American Indian land without a second thought to their plight, their loss. This shows an agenda for your group...only your group. A Palestinian bias of bad behavior(terrorism) to trade for land. Let's be real....would you fight for others whom had land taken just as fervently, if you weren't only looking out for only Palestinian causes. How about land stolen from Jews in Europe. How about land taken in Muslim countries from Jews? It's a lot easier to wait until the land is given back....then settle down the savages once the bad behaviour gets them what they wanted in the first place. It's hypocritical to whine about a little sliver of land in the Middle East, when you sit in a country stolen from Native Americans. But I'm only coming from a Choctaw perspective. I had to buy my 140 acres. No one gave me a damn thing back.

Hopefully, we learn from history and try NOT to repeat horrific mistakes, like attempted genocide and illegal colonization. In Canada, while not all treaties have been settled, there is negotiation and recompense for past injustices ... never sufficient of course. Native peoples have choices and rights in a way that Palestinians do NOT. There is a theory that we all originate in Africa so there's been a lot of movement of peoples around the world. And does land REALLY belong to anyone? Yet we all deserve to live somewhere and according to modern international law it is illegal what Israel is doing to Palestinians right now in the 21st century. Why haven't we learnt from history that such an attempt, as Israel's, to take another people's land is WRONG! As Hamas needs to acknowledge that Israel has a right to exist, so too must the militant zionists accept the right of Palestinians to exist in a sovereign Palestine side by side with Israel.

everyone has to have a place to live in this ever more crowded earth. Tensions are only raised between us when we label eachother in angry and inciteful ways. We fight over "homelands", over misinterpretations of our histories, over land and resources. If we don't begin to de-escalate and start treating eachother with respect as human beings, then all is lost. Punish eachother if you must, but bear the consequences. For they are truly devastating. The people called, loosely, Palestinians, if treated with respect will gain self-respect from it, the benefit exists for all to enjoy. Only the powerful can empower the weak and downtrodden. The choice, it seems, lies with Israel and her people.

The writer of the article In his sagacious analysis didn't factor in all the usurpation that has been taking place in the Palestinian occupied territories since June 1967. If he adds up all of the Israeli settlements blocks, the Jewish settlers only roads, the areas taken by the apartheid wall, and the newly planned additional housing units slated for expanding the existing settlements, it will leave him with only 45% of the land existed prior to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank in 1967.The residual land represents only about 10 to 12% of the historical Palestinian land. In addition, the realities on the ground nowadays tells a different story, Israel already has a total and complete control of all of the Palestinian territories, the three noncontiguous Palestinian enclaves as well as Gaza Strip are cut off from the outside world. In order for a viable two state solution to be implemented a complete reversal of everything that took place in the occupied territories need to be taken into consideration, a tall order that is impossible to achieve given the current circumstances. So yes a two state solution is equally as bad as one binational state solution. The only solution that is doable and achievable is the one that tells Israel to comply with the international resolutions spelled out in the United Nation Security council resolutions 242, and 338. While this demand may sound like a broken record since it usually falls on deaf ears, it remains to be the most powerful & the most widely recognized solution. Advocates of the one state and the two states may continue their dialogue in the coming months and years, unless Israel comes to the realization that the Palestinian people must be given their independence, we will continue with our futile haggling over one binational state and two state solution until dooms day. Hatem Abunimeh habunimeh@yahoo.com

I think Hanania has personal issues with Ali Abunimeh which makes his criticism of the book weak. Why did he have to bring his personal issues and make himself look like the victim of Abunimeh's "racism" in an article like this? He didn't even address the cornerstone of Abunimeh's article, which like you mentioned, is that the facts on the ground do not bode well for a 2-state solution. It is nearly impossible to remove the settlements and the separation barrier that exist on occupied 1967 Palestinian land. There is no way a contiguous Palestinian state could be established today unless major geographical changes are made which Israel is not even considering. Ray Hanania doesn't even address the apartheid issue seriously. He just brushes it aside by saying that Israel and SA have differences and similarities (what the heck is that supposed to mean?!). He needs to read Abunimeh's book and give it an honest critique, not a personal, emotionally-charged piece such as this one.

My people (jewish) have lived in the mid-east for ages & we will remain despite the Arabic hatred! So no,despite what your Immans say,we are as much as true mid-easteners as you.. Shalom,Lea

The point of having a Jewish state is that there needs to be one state on the planet where Jews can control their own destiny. I can live in America because Israel exists. The anti-Zionists and the Israeli Zionists both forget this fact. Given the hate I see on the Palestinian side. I think that a bi-national state would have a majority Arab population and it would be a disaster for Jews. I think that people who call for a one state solution are either in denial or know what they are asking for, but won't admit it.

Other states have always given citizenship to those living on conqured territory. Only Israel refuses to do this forcing the two state option.

US indian have citizenship and don't need to ask for land they already have rights to as citizens. The Palestinians have no citizenship of any kind. The option then is either Israeli citizenship or the two state solution.