This month i was in such a bus . The first one to Jerusalem who came to Sirkin Junction . I sat in the "mens" section of the bus , with a women Soldier next to me . in the row in front of me , also a woman . Nobody said anything , and there were many charidim on this bus There are probably some more "extreme" charidim than others , they give the bad name all the charidi don't deserve to receive .

1) Have male only and female only buses. MAke the female only buses more frequent than the male or in prioportion to demand. 2) Use double decker buses. Men on top, women below b'cos women usually have strollers. for men with strollers they will have to stay with the women. 3) Use multi-carriage buses, provide sitting positions for women in the front use curtatins to seperate the male and female sections. to accomodate the fact that women may be more than men or men more than women the partioning point should be flexible, so provide curtains on each row. First come first serve. It does sound a bit inconveniencing to me but if this is what the community wants and the bus company needs the market then it neds to do it right, in spite of the trouble.

Thanks for your kind words. However you misread my comment. I said that YNet is creating a misdirection by focusing on this issue and on Katsav IN ORDER TO TAKE THE HEAT OFF OLMERT. As for the Rosa Parks wannabees who are instigating this legal action against the bus companies, I believe they are doing it for personal gain and attention and IN NO WAY DO THEY REPRESENT HAREDI WOMEN. They probably did not even ask a single haredi woman (other than my mom) if they supported their precious little campaign. The bus companies made a big mistake by introducing segregated bus lines, which are nowhere required by halacha. "Frummer than thou" gynephobes have a choice of making their own private sherutim, car service, or WALK. However some self-proclaimed "activists" making a big public demonstration for attention, personal ambition and sell books is not the way to deal with this situation, all it does is inflame emotions.

I fully agree with you that the lefties are a terrible problem...and a solution must be found. However, Haredi EXTREMISM is a problem of equal dimensions. All extremism is destructive.

Some religious groups are opposed to miltary service in any army other than the "messianic army". Its a religious principle, and everyone should have freedom of religion. I don't know if israel already does this. but if not, it should make national service compulsory and give the option of non-military national service to those whose religious beliefs or "morals" or "ethnicities" bar them from military service. Every person should be required to a put in a given number of hours over a maximum period of time. Such a person should be exempt from military service. Think of it as requiring them to pay a "dhimmi" but in "kind" and not in cash. This should stem the resentment against them. If you think about it the "dhimmi" sytem when properly applied is quite neat.

If Rosa Parks was still alive, she would join you in seconds. Rosa Parks would be very very proud of you for standing up to wrongful discrimination. Let those ultra orthodox jewish men have their own buses to keep it "anti--woman" bus.....

Ynet, Ynet, this is almost as good as Reuters and Green Helmet Man!!! Not a single one of these women would call themselves Haredi. Why are you trying to kowtow to the few sicko extremists that haunt these talkbacks in search of Anti-Haredi scarps like vultures? Feel free to pursue the case, I am Haredi and I get sick at the back of the bus, but I also have an MPV (see Sagi, my husband DOES go to work and pays taxes). Stop creating news and start reporting it!

Miriam Shear, the tourist from Detroit, who claimed she was "viciously kicked and beaten" on a haredi bus line? That story was so bogus not even YNet reported it. That is why the "Rosa Parks wannabees" had to resort to Plan B, the romance author's experience from 3 years ago.

Why is it, if a Jewish woman screams at an Arab who has been shooting bullets at her family, it's a WAR CRIME? But if a Jewish woman screams at a Jewish man over a seat on a bus, SHE IS A NATIONAL HEROINE? Just axin'

Actually, what you're saying is fairly close to the system in Israel now. Secular Jews do military service. Religous men can opt to serve in special, more religious military units, or they can opt not to even do military service if they're religious enough. Religious women can opt to not do military service at all, and they can do something called "sherut leumi" (national service), which is like volunteer work for 1-2 years. Actually, I think any girl -- whether or not she's religious -- can do that. In terms of non-Jews, they are not required to serve in the army. However, you can usually find many Bedouin and Druze volunteering to join the army. There are even Israeli Arabs who volunteer. I don't know if the Druze, Bedouin and Arabs are required to do some kind of volunteering (like national service) if they don't do the army. I also don't know what the deal is for Christians.

Point taken, and as usual, I agree with you :-)

Deal with the corrupt secular leaders of Israel. Please, ynet, don't try to detract from the serious bad stuff which is going on in Israel by blaming the hareidim. If some women do not like the mehadrin lines, let them take regular buses. Show some respect for kedusha and tahara of the Jewish people and for the sensitivities involved.

I live here and though i am not Haredi, i do work for some occassionaly. There are some extremists in the Haredi, but they are a small minority and articles like this blow the situation out of proportion every time an isolated incident occurs. I would honestly say that Haredi extremism is not a problem of equal dimensions. Olmert and his leftie backers are a much bigger threat to Israels survival than isolated haredi problems.

kosher buses?????

They're is no reason in halacha that men and women need to ride separate buses. Many poskim - including hareidi poskim - don't hold buses need to be segregated. This is an issue of dogma and hareidi social mores, not halacha.

Why are women punished by men? Isn't enough that God punished women with painful periods and painful birth? Why must all this extra baggage be added to the already heavy load women have to bear? Have you ever seen a cow or a lizard screaming in pain as they birth their child? Only human females suffer so. Those who do not believe in God have really stupid explanations as to why. Only God's explanation makes sense. Why must women cover up in public, but not men? Don't you men think that women can lust? How about homosexuals? Surely men should cover themselves up, too, just to keep the above lusting down. The same is true of this foolish busing argument. Why can't you take turns? One week, men sit in the back. A sign at the front tells which week it is. How does discriminating against women "Honor your mother" as God COMMANDS you?

Recently, after she died, I read that in fact, Rosa Parks was not just a random woman who refused to back down but an activist who sat on that bus and refused to give up her seat as part of a plan (by whichever group she was working with, don't remember) to challenge segregation. For decades beforehand the NAACP had been trying to fight segregation with lawsuits. This was likely to be one of them and it ballooned into a whole movement. Therefore, people criticising Naomi Ragen for this being a publicity stunt are misguided. She is likely just adding some activism to her already well-known Orthodox feminist repertoire.

Martin, you are correct about Rosa Parks. She was working with the ACLU. The feminists have also been planning for many years with various activities against the segregated bus lines, because of the romantic association with the "Joan of Arc" Rosa Parks. As for your comment that Naomi Regan is just enhancing her image as an anti-Orthodox feminist, her alleged "bus horror" occurred THREE YEARS AGO. She is taking up the standard now for these reasons: 1. The previous planned incident with Miriam Shear turned out to be bogus. 2. Naomi's readership of her Orthodox-bashing novels took a dive with her secular leftist fans after she came out against disengagement, and she has to regain her fan base and get back into their good graces. 3. Naomi's life dream to be on Oprah.

Recently, my wife travelled to Israel by El Al. As she was travelling alone, and after being checked in and given her seat number, was asked to move 6 times in order to accomodate haredim that just refused to move or sit next to a woman. Their behavior is simply despicable, and finds a sympathetic ear from El AL, but not from other airlines. On those times that we flew to Israel on other airlines, the Haredim just had to sit wherever their seat was allocated, and no amount of their moaning/groaning helped. I would ask what do these guys do outside Israel? Obviously, nobody is going to cater to their demands of "Kosher" buses. Absolutely ridiculous !!!!

You don't have to be charedi to be disgusted by the behavior of the charedim. In a secular demoacracy, which we aspire to be, any person has to either accept that he/she must find their "religious solutions" outside the framework of civil law. Segregating buses for whatever reason is despicable, whether it's gender, racial, or religious segregation. I agree that any charedi man who can't accept that he may have to sit next to a woman should find his own alternative- the bus company does not have to provide him with one. There are a number of "kosher" bus lines in Jerusalem that serve both charedi and non-charedi neighborhoods, and this is called "religious coercion" (and there are laws here against that). Ask why these problems don't exist in Bnei Brak. Answer: there are no lines that service Bnei Brak exclusively, and the Dan management has given the demand a take-it-or-leave-it response: "this is the way it is, if you don't like it, don't ride". Emotions will be inflamed under any circumstances, because many people, both religious and secular, go to extremes where religion is concerned. Before you make any comments about my political leanings, understand that I have nothing but the greatest contempt for Shulamit Aloni, who is an opportunist of the first degree and always has been. Only on rare occasions have her actions been in the same direction as mine. If she's so concerned about the welfare and safety of people, why does she have a long-standing injunction against the completion of the Ayalon Freeway from Kfar Shmaryahu to Rishpon on the Coastal Road? Simple-- it would go past her house. That doesn't mean she's wrong in this instance, though. I wonder how you would feel if you were forced to sitin the back of the bus because you were male, white or Jewish... I'm sure you'd sing a different tune...

I'm a haredi woman, and I have difficult time to sit in the back of the bus and the youngsters in the front. As far as I understand[ that according to the halacha] I pay the same price for the bus ticket and can choose where I want to sit. When I show my S.O.S. bracelet they leave me alone. But does someone has to prove that she is sick or will be sick when she travels in the back of the bus? By behaving this way as some men or the bochrim do is a chilul Hashem. It is a pity. Judaisme has a lot to give. Instead of mekarev[ bring the others closer] we push them away

Let the buses be women only and let the Taliban chara-dim men walk

that there are more extreme haredim than others. Your story only proves that the only wackos here was that girl because I guarantee you if it was your wife nobody would say peep. Ragen the non haredi was probably just a piss off like other idiotic seculars who do things in spite to the Haredim to piss them off and write about how horrible they are.

The solution is very simple. If the dosim can not control their sexual desires, they should walk and stay off the public buses. No wonder Katsav was so popular with the religious. Another self righteous hypocrite.

Religion is a beautiful thing Culture is a beautiful thing but never above any Human dignity

I've never ridden on one of the buses that are being discussed, but I often ride the 417 (not separate seating) to Beit Shemesh. Living & visiting in Beit Shemesh are Hareidim, Dati Leumi, traditional, Secular, foreign workers, and who knows what else. When I board the bus there are usually a lot of people sitting one person to a seat, often with a package in the other half of the seat. I search for a woman with whom to share a seat even if I have to ask her to move a package. Other men and women do the same. Sometimes someone asks a man (or woman) to change seats to sit with someone of the same sex in order to avoid sharing a seat with someone of the opposite sex. Last week for the first time in years , a man sat down next to me. I didn't say anything, but I was very uncomfortable. I didn't realize how much I appreciated the separation and not having to share a seat with a man (with the inevitable touching as the bus turns corners.) Secular people out there may think I'm oversensitive, but to me, and many others (not only religious), it's a real issue. Men have more problems with this. When many people are standing, there's a big problem. I don't know what the solution is. I just thought I'd write how it works on the bus that I ride.

Here is my mom's proposed solution for desegregating the bus lines: 1. Women can sit in the front. 2. Men can sit in the back. 3. If there is not space for the women to sit, men must give up their seats. 4. Soldiers sit where ever they want. 5. Every day, move the men's section back one row. 6. Import a bunch of cab drivers from Minneapolis to drive the men who do not want to ride.

B"H It works at the Kotel. It can work on a bus also.