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Shas seeks harsher punishment for missionaries
Neta Sela
Published: 14.03.07, 00:21
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61. report about messianic "converts" on arutz 2
Tobias   (03.14.07)
For those of you who understand hebrew, this video (broadcastet on arutz2 about a month ago) could be interesting: http://www.keshet-tv.com/VideoPage.aspx?MediaID=13086&CatID=250&CurrentCatID=330
62. You Xtian try converting the Arab Muslims..
ben ,   singapore   (03.14.07)
....for sure you'll will get dead sentence on the ROAD.THINK ! You'll are GUILTY OF PROSELYTISM ! I would recommend 6 years imprisonment in the same cell with the Palestinian Prisoners.:)))))
63. To put it all into perspective....
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (03.14.07)
A priest and a rabbi were discussing jobs and promotion possibilities Rabbi: "Where can you go from here?" Priest: "Well, I can be biship." Rabbi: "Then what?" Priest: "If I apply myself, I can become arch biship." Rabbi: " Ok, then what?" Priiest, slightly irritated: "If I work real hard, I can become cardinal." Rabbi: "Oh, that's nice, but then what?" Priest, now getting major pissed: "Well, if I figure out the politics in Rome and play my cards just right, I may get elected pope." Rabbi: " Mazel tov, but then what?" Priest now screams: "Well, what do you expect me to become next? God?" Rabbi, smiling and with twinkle in his eye: "Well, you've been knocking yourself out for nearly 2000 years, trying to convince the world that one of our boys made it."
64. Good, go for it, you got my vote!
Avraham ,   Netivot   (03.14.07)
65. The Whole Western world could have been Jewish if
Andrew ,   Miami,FL   (03.14.07)
we didnt listen to guys like this and gave judaism to the world yeah - thats what 12 Jews and their followers did do they gave judaism to the romans - and look what happened
66. great i support the rabbi.
susan ,   israel   (03.14.07)
gentiles wants the nation of israel gone from the face of this earth. they dont accept us as the chosen people of god. they want to take our place. they are fighting us in many fronts.
67. conversions
bob ,   Mechanicsburg PA   (03.14.07)
When are they going to enact this law in the USA? Hurry please!
68. Xian missionaries need to clean up their own messes
Yacov ,   Ashkelon   (03.14.07)
Xian missionaries should be cleaning up their own messes rather than trying to steal Jewish souls. The Xian countries of Europe, Scandinavia, and the U.S. are plagued by violent crime, substance abuse, illegitimate births, abortion and a mass of other messes. Xian missionaries should be working on these fallen away Xians and their messes rather than harassing Jews in Israel.
69. #60 Tobias: Myth of "Messianic" Jews
Yacov ,   Ashkelon   (03.14.07)
There are no such people as "messianic" Jews. There are fallen away Jews who have converted to Xianity and are no longer Jewish. They are apostates who fraudulently misrepresent themselves as Jews. There so-called celebration of Jewish holidays, holding services on Saturday and similar practices are just fraudulent marketing practices to convert Jews to Xianity.
70. # 68 Yacov...Agree with you and tell them one more time :)
ben ,   singapore   (03.14.07)
In the diaspora the xtian's harrasment is HORRIBLE TOO !
71. Democracy?
to #9 Pumpkin pie ,   Beirut/Lebanon   (03.14.07)
"Not from a democracy like "Israel") Are you serious!?
72. Paqid, does your halachot include the toaster and TV?
David ,   Israel   (03.14.07)
You shall know them by their works? How does one advocate Halachah when one freely flicks the lights on shabbat, uses the toaster to make toast on shabbat, turns on the tv on shabbat. Don't advocate one thing and do the opposite in your private home. That's the ultimate hypocrit. Do you teach your students one thing and do the opposite, maybe the 3 tweety birds told you it's ok to do this too. We have plenty of issues in Judaism and yes, we have to educate,but we have no one currently to do so, therefore they are attempting to stop the bleeding. I wanted to know, when the rabbi's converted you, did you say you where waiting for the messiah as in the 13 statements of faith, or lie about that too? If you lied, well, what can we say. This law would affect you and your 1 man show, this is why you are so upset. I truly hope it does. Take a humility pill and come back to earth, then you will have a little more success.
73. Iro # 63: That should be b i s h o p; not biship
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (03.14.07)
Sorry! And the last time I looked, priests had only one "i." Religion gets me all bumfuzzled :-)
74. Not a question of conversion!
Hardi J. Niclasen ,   Denmark   (03.14.07)
I surely can't see what this fuss is all about! Let me put it straight: 1. Judaism is believing in the coming of a Jewish Messiah. 2. Yeshu'a claimed to be that Jewish Messiah, amply backing up His claims referring to the Jewish Scriptures. There is no question of converting to another religion, only to embrace our own Messiah. If any "missionary" is proclaiming anything apart from this simple fact, then don't listen to that missionary, but have a look for yourself in the Old - and the New Testament!
75. Re: 45
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
Quote: Missionaries say they love you, but they are liars - they will only love and respect you if you convert. ============ To make a blanket statement is irresponable....yes in the past there were problems in that realm ...but by large today most christian missionary groups share the message and let the listeners make thier own choice....if that choice is a rejection of the message ...so be it ! many christian organizations go out into areas that nobody else wants to go and raises the living standard of starving and dying communities ( darfur ) and if asked they share thier faith.... Jesus never ask us to force anyone ...but to share his message...
76. Re:52
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington   (03.14.07)
Quote :Jews were barred from universities, from various government and private sector jobs, from high ranks in the army, from schools, from social clubs, and more. ==================== some of your points are true ...however recently that trend has deminished ...the recent administrations of the US gov has included many Jew in High positions in the Government including the presidents cabinet ( IE - Kissenger- in nixons; cohen in clintons ) you tend to lump the good apples with the bad....
77. Re 63
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
Nice story Quote : Rabbi, smiling and with twinkle in his eye: "Well, you've been knocking yourself out for nearly 2000 years, trying to convince the world that one of our boys made it." ========== God sent his son to be a little lower than the angels ...to be the sacrificial lamb for his people....
78. Re 68
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
That is a on going project in america
79. Re 69 Tobias: Myth of "Messianic" Jews
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
The orginal proponants were Jews whether or not you wish to recognise it and the leader of that group claimed to be the messiah.and was rejected by the jewish leadership at that time.... the Jews of that time could have simply produced the body of Jesus and Christianity would have died on the vine....they never produced it... if it was a lie most people would have recanted rather than continue to proclaim a lie....virtualy all but one disciples died a horrble death.... human nature is extremly interesting perdicable witness
80. #75 Roy: So share your message anywhere but Israel
Yacov ,   Ashkelon   (03.14.07)
We have had enough of the pistol-packing preacher creatures coming to Israel trying to pick off Jews. Share your "message" anywhere but Israel. Israel was created as a homeland where Jews could come to escape Xians and their tyranny. We don't need them following us to Israel to destroy us.
81. Re : 80 Yacov , Ashkelon
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
I will Share the message to whomever is willing to concider it....I will not force anyone to accept Jesus as thier savior...Its is thier right to reject in the eyes of Jesus... The Chances of me going to Israel is very slim ...I will share the message thru forms like this one..
82. Why do so many people here fail to understand democracy?
Daniel ,   United States   (03.14.07)
Every word in support of this bill is from people who have no understanding of democracy, and as a response to #31If Israel decides to stop being a democracy the rest of the Western Worl will stop caring about it, you know the 2.5 billion $ of weapons Israel gets for FREE from the United States every year? Well if you guys turn your backs on us we will do the same to you, and you can fight your next war without those weapons. Fortunately though I have been to Israel before, and know for a fact that fanatics like the people on this board are a small minority in Israel and am very happy to say that Israel will not abandon democracy, but it is disturbing nonetheless that a major Israeli Political Party wants to do so.
83. Daniel US # 82
charles ,   petach tikva   (03.14.07)
Israel was , is , and will be a democracy . You will always have freedom of exercising your religion . To defend weak people is also a task for a democratic state . The state defends the weaker on different fronts , it's his obligation . One of those fronts is proselytism exerced by some religious groups , mainly christians and jews for jesus . They always attack very vulnerable people , sane and religious people not . And this is the purpose of this proposal . This is not antidemocratic to defend weaker people , it's the contrary .
84. Why do missionaries fail to understand democracy?
JPS ,   Efrat   (03.14.07)
Democracy means freedom of religion. Correct me if I'm wrong, Daniel, but missionairies by definition are out to tell you about their religion and to try and get you to adopt it. That means, by definition, bhat missionariies are intolerant of other religions. Tolerance of religion is one of the cornerstones of democracy. Missionaries have to end goal of converting everybody to their religion. That, my dear Daniel, is so not only undemocratic (small d), but also un-American. It is a constant embarassment to the United States that nmissionaries fail to understand that democracy means that you have to tolerate people of other religions and leave them alone. We are not turning our backs on America, because America is not missionaries. We're only rejecting missionairies and their goal of religious genocide.
85. Yaacov of Ashkelon
charles ,   petach tikva   (03.14.07)
Do you think that this handful of missionaries can destroy us ? They can maybe pick one or some more weak people in their nets , but this is not destroying us . I'm also against true Jewish proselytism [ chabad ] , they have also to be punished .
86. To Roy in America
JPS ,   Efrat   (03.14.07)
Roy, in your own words "many christian organizations go out into areas that nobody else wants to go and raises the living standard of starving and dying communities " Here in Israel our standard of living is very high, thank you. We're not starving and we're not dying. So by your own words, missionaries have nothing to do here in Israel except try to convert Jews to Christianity. Go to Darfur, go to other places, but keep your intolerant hateful souls out of Israel. If you love us as people, then respect our wishes to not push your religion on us., If you insist on trying to preach to us, then you're nothing but a hateful soul who has no respect for his fellow human beings. You'll probably never understand it until somebody tries to convert your kid to some other religion (but not Judaism, because we don't go out fishing for souls).
87. Re:84
Roy Galut ,   Selah Washington USA   (03.14.07)
Tolerance of religion is one of the cornerstones of democracy. The corner stone of the american Democracy was a christian faith Christian services was even held in the Capital building in the early 1800s Thomas Jefferson ,who authered many of the Laws of our Democracy ...promoted a cut down version of the New Testament for the Indian tribes using Government funds... Yes in our Democracy We must Tolerate other faiths .....but that does not include freedom from exposure (speech) of Ideas...it just means that once I have shared my faith...I must accept what ever decision the person I shared it with made......and make no attempt to force it on him.
88. Conversion
David ,   Jerusalem   (03.14.07)
The problem is that Yeshua was a Jew, all of his disciples were and the Church in Jerusalem were Jews. Anyone who is only intelectually honest will admit that the so called Christian movement was and is a Jewish sect that went and converted the Goyim. Now you claim that the Goyim who are members of a Jewish sect are trying to convert us. If this is a problem then we should take ownership of what we created and stop projecting. Projection is a mental illness and it is a function of denial. Now comes along this Rabbi and because he supposedly has access to some hidden (oral) tradition that was supposed to be kept separate from the written (Torah) he now is the only one in charge of interpretation of something that wasn't supposed to be written in the first place. Starting to sound a little twisted and confusing to me!!!!! Now he is in charge of putting someone into prison and next he may be asking for someone to build crosses of one form or another for those who disagree of blashpeme what he believes. This is called Judaism. Wanna lock someone up? Start by locking up all the "thought police" who wanna lock up people. Maybe we should require all Christians to wear a yellow cross on their sleeves so we know who they are. Then we can run across the street when we see them or build somewhere for them to live separate from us. Let's see what started this problem. Where is the Temple and why did it get removed? Oh yeah that was another messian, Bar Kochba who did us all a favour by revolting under the direction of another Rabbi Akiva. I for one believe in the fact that people can make up their own minds when people talk with them about what they believe. I have a little more faith in the Jewish people I guess than these thought police who want to make the rules for everyone but do what they want in the dark when no one sees them. Let's try some freedom and see if God is big enough to maintain it.
89. A Game of Monopoly
David R. ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (03.14.07)
I have to wonder why the Christian faith is not afraid to compete with other religions (such as Judaism), but Judaism is obviously worried about the strength of competition put forth by Christianity. Why is that? If Christianity has enough faith in itself to compete with other religions (as opposed to establishing a monopoly by illegalizing the competition), what is it about Christianity that Judaism is so worried about that they have to imprison its proponents? It sounds to me as if Christianity must have something the others don't want their followers to hear about, for fear it may contain a greater measure of truth. Eliminating the competition is not only an indication of fear of substance in someone else's faith - it also indicates uncertainty of faith or confidence in one's own religion. Perhaps even worse, such a move also decries any suggestion that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East". To the contrary, it shouts to the world it is not a democracy at all.
90. To #84, 85, 86
Daniel ,   United States   (03.15.07)
To #84 1.It is never the business of a government to keep people in their religion. People who convert out of their faith simply have changed their views on the supernatural, and that is not weakness. 2.Missionaries simply spread the word of their faith, that is covered under free speech, and people who agree or want to give it a try pick up on the word and convert. So lets pretend baning missionary work doesn't limit freedom of religion (a point I do not by any means concede) then you still have freedom of speech. 3. If a Jew doesn't believe in Judaism what do you care if he then picks up the beliefs of another faith? Faith is a personal not a communal decision. #85 Don't you think that if someone has lost faith in their current religion should be given options other then athiesm? #86 The only intolerant person is you. If you are so weak in your faith that you can not tolerate people peacefully telling you about theirs then you are not only intolerant but Godless as well. To # 87, 88, and 89 very well said.
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