Opinion
Israel partly at fault
Amos Oz
Published: 29.04.07, 16:04
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31. right of return
Palestinian refugee   (04.30.07)
If the Arabs one would own all the world except Jaffa, I will not return any where except jaffa where my predecessors lived for thousand years before they where expelled and made refugees. So those who still have this funny argument that we should reside in the Arab world are dreaming and must know that they are racists because there is no replacement for our homes.
32. amos oz: not even close> if there were no war, no refugees
dante ,   uk   (04.30.07)
it's not as oz would have one believe: some blame on each side. if the arabs had not attacked Israel, there would have been no refugees. AND, btw: out of the tens of millions of refugees after wwII, why is it that this is the only refugee group that has not been settled in the land in which it settled? all over europe and asia, there were refugees. the people that are now called "palestinians" are the only ones who have not been permanently settled, even though they lived in arab countries.
33. OZ much be watching too much Oprah TV! Just fix the problem
Stewart ,   USA   (04.30.07)
and forget about asigning blame and guilt for something that happenned so long ago under such unclear circumstances. The Joradanians, Egyptians, and even the Saudis under it all would love to solve the problem if the radicals would let them do so.
34. Oz's naivity
Eli   (04.30.07)
Practically all his proposals for "solving the refugee problem" were tried and were rejected by the Arabs and the Arab subsidiary the UN. I remember, for example, that shortly after tje Six Day War, Moshe Dayan started a project of building new housing projects for the refugees in the "camps" in Gaza but he was vigorously rebuffed by the above. The policy of the Arabs was to precisely to keep the refugees in those camps to exert moral presure on Israel. Obviously the tactic succeeded with Oz. The Arabs dont care about the suffering of these refugees, Rich Arab countries barely contributed anything to help them. As for Israel "admitting" not only is this mostly counterfactual ,but instead of helping the peace process it will be used by the Arabs as a new stick for hammering Israel.
35. Before Oz, Lennon sang...
Takan ,   Eilat   (04.30.07)
Imagine all the people living life in peace. A beautiful dream, peace, but Lenon got shot, and Israelis are getting shot at and the poor Palestinian refugee who wants to go back fishing in Jaffa is only dreaming of a no-jew-land, a 23rd muslim dictature. No matter who did what to the Jews and when, Jews do not belong in Europe anymore, they do not belong in Cairo, Bagdad or Damascus anymore. Jews don't belong to the world anymore, they belong to Israel and Israel belongs to Them. The world is big enough for all you Israeli haters. If you don't like what you see in Israel (or Palestine or Judea, whatever one wants to nostalgically call it) look away. Drop your blind and cheap hate for Israel and get on with your life. You're only making things harder for our neighbours by feeding them fake dreams of victory and final solution. Teach them love and respect on a universal level instead and maybe we'll have peace.
36. The writer of this inglorious drivel
Dave ,   Australia   (04.30.07)
suggests ' Israeli participation in resolving the problem such as removing all the refugees from the camps in which they are rotting and providing housing', - He looks in his photo old enough to know some history. Israel tried to build houses for residents from camps, but the UN stopped them and said NO. If you make them too comfortable they will not want to defeat Israel. The UN even made them return some to the camps that had already taken possession of houses. Reporters report facts, not dreams. Research your history before you speak please and if you have to have a 'blame game' look at the august body of the UN
37. Amos Oz and refugees
Philip A. Robinson ,   Framingham, MA U.S.A   (04.30.07)
Mr. Oz is willing to talk about the problem and puncture a part of the myth that the Palestinians fled on their own and expected to return after Israel was defeated. Now if the Arab states will admit that they also do not want the Palestinian Arabs living and settling within their borders and every one agrees to pick up the tab to create housing , infrastructure and work for a Palestinian population and state.
38. Palestian Refugee: You can wait
Fortunee ,   Boston, USA   (04.30.07)
The reason you Palestinians are not advancing is that yo spend your time dreaming for something you will never get. Go on waiting, go on dreaming an d sitting on your behinds destroying yourselves.
39. #31 Jaffa is as much as your home as the moon is
Ron ,   USA   (04.30.07)
Please find yourself a good psychiatrist. The Arab expulsion of Jews has demonstrated that the Arabs don't want to live with the Jews. Therefore, the Jews do not want to live in the same state with the Arabs. However, keep fantacizing. It is free of charge and you are not hurting anyone. Thanks for reading the Jewish Zionist press! Thanks for participating in the Jewish Zionist debate.
40. The reasons they want to come to Israel
Ron ,   USA   (04.30.07)
1. Welfare checks 2. Excellent health care 3. Unlimited educational opportunities 4. Unlimited professional opportunities 4. Democracy 5. Freedom 6. Israel is a modern Western-type country 7. Wonderful food 8. Superior nightlife in Tel Aviv 9. Decent roads 10. Beautiful Jewish women/handsome men. Try to compare such advantages to any Arab state and the Jewish state wins hands down. So, the Arabs are smart. They want to move to Israel. 25K Egyptians Arabs did by marrying the Israeli Arab women. No wonder the Palestinian Arabs perpetuate the myth of belonging to Jaffa, Haifa or some other Israeli town.
41. To #31
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (04.30.07)
Arabs live in Jaffa. Maybe one of them is squatting in your 6000-yr-old ancestral house. U R the racist, not to mention retard & arsehole.
42. Do away with UNWRA and Pali problem'll solve itself.
AK   (04.30.07)
Also start calling Jordan by its proper name --Palestine. Very few people realize this days that Jordan was established on the 3/4 (or is it more) of the 'Palestine' and thus is a homeland for the Palestinian Arabs. Also make public UNWRA's definition for 'Palestinian' refugees; how many know that two-year residenency would grant any Arab and his descendants claim of being a refugee, in perpetuity. You see, the problem would have been solved decades ago, if only the world wished so.
43. Political and humanitarian aspect to the problem
Sam ,   Canada   (04.30.07)
There are two aspects to the problem. One is humanitarian, the other is political. The cynical political goal is the Arabs finding enough Palestinian refugees to demographically overwhelm Israel. The humanitarian one is helping the refugees. The Arabs to date have used the refugees as political pawns and without their cooperation there is not going to be any solutions.
44. #43 The problem is the Arabs have never given up the desire
Eric ,   USA   (04.30.07)
to destroy Israel. They are fighting the Jews by proxy, via the Arab terrorists they call Palestinian freedom fighters. The Arabs kicked the Jews our of the Arab states only to attack them in the Jewish state. Their hatred of Jews is strong. The Arab states need Israel as an enemy to divert the attention from their brutality, poor economy, censorship and corruption. The Arabs claiming to be Palestinian are abused by the rest of the Arab world but they see themselves as heroes who are capable of dislodging the Jewish sovereignity. They continue fighting because they think they will succeed. The problem in this equation is not the Arabs. The Arabs are smart. They know what they want. The problem is the Jews in the form of the author of this article who are not secure about the Jews or Israel. There is nothing worse for the Jews than doubt their right to live in the Middle East. There is nothing worse for the Jews than to blame themselves for some past or present deeds. The Jews are the saints in comparison to those who surround them. Israel is not in Micronesia. It is not Iceland surrounded by water. It is in the Middle East where they blow up buses, schools, kindergartens and all kinds of buildings that are full of the innocent civilians. Those who surround the Jews and Israel have no scrupples or regard for humanity. Nobody in this world can preach to Jews their morality as there are no people in this world who are more moral than the Jews are. Had the Arabs possessed the Israeli technology or might they would not have left one Jew alive. The Arabs who like to identify themselves Palestinian are upset because their lives would have been much easier and they would have been big if the Jews had not defended themselves. They cannot get used to a strong Jew. After all the Jews were obediently marching into the gas chambers or were living for generations as the second class citizens in the Arab states. The Jews must divorce the Arabs one way or another. Good fences make good neighbors. The Jews must drop the useless guilt that only encourages the enemies.
45. faulty thinking
Ruth ,   Beer Sheva, IL   (04.30.07)
Oz thoughts are based on at least one false premise: It is not desperation that breeds extremism. On the contrary the experience that extremism works that breeds extremism. Offer the Palestinians financial help with settling the descendants of refugees without giving them the right to "return" and they will perceive it as a bribe. No confidence will be built this way only more demands will arise.
46. "Flinching" & Cringing: What Oz Does Best
Friedman ,   NYC USA   (04.30.07)
"Each time we Israelis hear the words "the 1948 refugee problem," our stomachs flinch..." Speak for yourself, little girl.
47. ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINE
ISHMAEL ISHMAEL ,   TORONTO   (04.30.07)
Mr. Oz, Perhaps Israeli media should serialize Ilan Pappe's "The Ethnic Cleansing of palestine" and the Ministry of Lies/Education could make it immediately mandatory for its school system. Mr. Pappe makes your point without youd hedging. Israel is like Turkey with regard to its genocide of Armenians or America/Canada and its First People, or Belgium or ... Confession could give Israel a soul and heal the Palestinian Survivors. Meanwhile, israel and Olmert share one factor in common: the percentage of approval by the world community, excluding the Islamophobes.
48. #47 Ishmael
Softwalker ,   Ottawa Canada   (04.30.07)
Are you referring to the Ilan Pappe whose byline is that "history doesn't need to be based on fact"? The facts are that this pseudo-historian has been disowned even by his former friends, and his writing discredited for being fiction.
49. Ismael #47. Arabs Ethnically Cleansed Its Jews
Sami ,   Geneva, Switzerland   (04.30.07)
#47. The Arabs ethnically cleansed 1 million of their Jews. It may be a good idea to teach that to all their citizens and to apologise. The Arabs attacked Israel and in war, there are refugees. The Palestinians are not the only refugees. The Hindus in Pakistan, Moslems in India, French, Germans, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Chinese and on and on and on.
50. ISHMAEL, israel murdered 1 million Arabs? Prove it.
AK   (04.30.07)
Otherwise stop libeling israelis. Turkey committed genocide, against Armenians; Israeli Jews did not commit genocide against Arabs. Israelis didn't murder any Arabs; as a matter of fact all the murdering was done by the Arabs, like the murder of the nurses and doctors in Jerusalem. here is no equivalecy between Turkey and Israel. Stop inventing history.
51. accepting no blame
James Michael Price ,   Herndon, VA, USA   (04.30.07)
No, Mr. Oz, Jews are NOT to blame for the Nakba. The people who, in 1947, were handed unconditionally full sovereignty over “The Occupied Territories” and recognition as an independent people are the ones to blame. The Arab war of rejection of the two-states compromise produced the refugees, not an indigenous people, the Jews, reclaiming a part of their land. The Palestinian Arabs sat passively for the 18 subsequent years in the face of Egyptian and Jordanian occupation, while launching cross-border attacks against Israel. The Arab tragedy is a tragedy of their own making --- 100%. If you really don’t see this, how about demanding that Jimmy Carter make restitution to Native Americans for his peanut farm in occupied Georgia.
52. Question to Palestinian refugee
Omri ,   Yehud, Israel   (04.30.07)
I have had Arab neighbors and was happy to have such great neighbors. I do not require nor do I want a "purely Jewish state". I want a state for the Jews that we are safe in. I have no issue with you as an individual moving back to Jaffa. I have a problem with 1 million Palestinians moving back.. How can you guarantee that we will all live in harmony and this won't turn into another Yugoslavia?
53. not precise enough, Mr OZ
Nicolas from Paris ,   Paris, France   (05.01.07)
Pals don't just ask for Israel's recognition of its partial "fault", but they DO ask for a right of return IN ISRAEL. If such a right is recognized, then no one will have the ability to refuse any Pal refugee to try to settle in Israel ; therefore, such a "right" may give a "lawful" base to an eternal war. Moreover, Israel is not even partly at fault, because as Arab nationalists refused any land sharing with the Jews -even the rediculous and shameful UN proposals-, Jews had no choice but to prepare the war in order to win it. This was their choice, and they still don't accept Israel...except the lonely Mahmoud Abbas, lol !
54. To Omry
Palestinian refugee   (05.01.07)
Dear Omri, who told you that 1 million Palestinians, would return to Palestine. Aren’t all the Jews in the world have the right to go to Israel because they are Jews? How many of them still outside? Millions. We only want to have that right. Because we belong to that land exactly as you belong to it now. Let's, both people of the holy land, build a sample for peace. The Idea of one-person one-vote is applied in many places of the world and minorities have more rights than majorities. I know how it feels to fear another persecution but we are in different world and for sure, your experience with your neighbors is a proof that we are different from the Europeans or the Nazis. See you in the Holy land in Jaffa my beautiful town.
55. Amos you're wrong
daniel ,   Amsterdam   (05.01.07)
Admitting part of the guilt will mean that the entire Arab world including the Palestinians will claim we accepted all of the blame. It must come from both sides. If that doesn't happen and we accept part of the blame, without the Arabs accepting the other half, we in effect accept all of the blame. There won't be any support for Israel left in the world after such an admission. We simply would have agreed to the Palestinian version of events deeming our own country illegitimate. We will loose all and gain nothing.
56. To Palestinian refugee
Frenchgirl ,   France   (05.01.07)
I have been reading your contributions and I wanted to say that I understand your grief and anger.What happened to your family is awful and I hope you'll find the strengh to reconstruct a new life with new hopes of happiness for you and yours in the future Palestinian state.You have been the victim of an injustice who is at fault is another matter.The Jewish People needs a state too.I don't think the right of return within the borders of Israel will be possible and when witing this I realize how terrible this sound to normal persons like you who suffered.The two states solution is the only viable solution.Two states for two Peoples.Once again, I hope you'll find the strengh to make a new life for you and yours.God Bless all the innocents who have been suffering whether Arab or Jewish.All the sides have to recognize their responsability and Oz has it right when saying Israel has a part of this responsability.Now a compromise must be found, this is the only chance for peace.
57. To Palestinian refugee
Aaron Levitt ,   New York City, USA   (05.01.07)
Thank you for your compelling posts. The expulsion of the Palestinian people from Israel was, and remains, a great crime, and a terrible blot on the honor of my people. I, too, look forward to the day when you and your family can return from exile to your home in Jaffa. May it come in speedily, and in both our lifetimes!
58. Refugees are entitled to opt for retu
rayberau ,   Brisbane, Australia   (05.02.07)
Refugees (both Arab and Jewish) are entitled to opt for return because it is their full human and political right and because the international community has established these rights in international law. Israeli Jews should want the Palestinian refugees to return because otherwise they will continue to live in a state where the value of ethnic superiority and supremacy overrides any other human and civil value.
59. Palestinian refugee, the world is unjust, I'm trully sorry
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (05.02.07)
In a perfect world you and all other Palestinians coul have a state of your own beside ours. In a perfect woorld you would even be able to return home and share our country with us. In a perfect world the Egyptians and Jordainians would have never occupied Gaza and the West Bank and you would have set up a state for yourselves there in 49. In a perfect world You would not have attacked in in '48 to begin with and would still b e living in Jaffa with us at the partition borders. In a perfect world perhaps we would never have decided to by the land from the British and return there, or perhaps the Romans would never have expelled us to start with. But the world isn't perfect; people have dreams and ideologies, baises and hatreds, and sometimes we have to pay for the ideologies of others. My people had to pay with their homes for the idology of the Jewish Zelots and with their lives for those of the Marxists and the Nazis. Your people had to pay with their homes for that of the Mufti of Jerusalem and the Arab League, and many have had to pay with their lives for the ideologies of Fatah and Hamas, ideologies which still, unfortunately, rule the Palestinian People and which cause them to murder as as brutally and fanatically as the zelots murdered the Romans and even other Jews two thousand years ago. It took centuries of exile for that radical strain to be weeded out general population; I can only hope the same would not be required for the Palestinians to be rid of their radical ideology.
60. refugees #1
BeeSting ,   Ottawa Canada   (05.02.07)
Wrong. Palestinian refugees are the only ones who have a specific UN resolution just for them, on top of international law instrument guaanteeing that right to all refugees. 194 gives them the right to ther homes. It has been renewed ever year. Just as families were able to return home in the Balkans after the war, all refugees who want to return to their homeland must be able to do so. And that includes Arab Jews who left their homes and who want to return.
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