Or better yet, what's your point? Regardless of this particular incident, are you defending hooligans who desecrate places of prayer? Vandals who destroy a communal and private property? Thugs who pick on defenseless people "just for fun", or "to vent their frustrations", as their lawyers advised them to claim in court? Or are you trying to say that Israel is less desirable place to live than USA or Germany? For whom? You? And you're proud of that? I had a choice, and I came to Israel. I am proud of living in a Jewish country, abiding by Jewish laws, and never to have to explain to a friendly neighbour that Passover is a rite of spring and at Rosh Hashanah we don't dance around a fire and chant... I lived in the US and I know how the Jews there live - in ghettos, unwalled, sometimes luxurious ghettos. My kids are a lot safer here, and if I don't see them for a second in a mall I don't freak out that some pervert has stolen them. I know that a friendly hand will bring them back. I also enjoy a life without fear to lose my medical coverage. I have a house just as nice here as I had in MA, I travel to Europe and Asia a lot more frequently now, and culturally I'm exposed to all there is, and not confined to what the American censorships filters through. And I get to celebrate all my holidays in full, on the streets and at home, and not to look for entertainment confined to different synagogues. America and Germany are not the answer. You would know that if you weren't so afraid to try something else. BTW, my relatives in Germany - do I pity them and their lonely, secluded existence, especially when they try hard to look like they have adjusted...

Your reply proves my point how brainwashed secular zionists are and how much you hate and lack any connection to yiddishkeit. Fortunaly many people understand and your way of writing just tells me why israelis like you are so hated in the world. Please stop the balony about this being a democracy,this place is run by global pagans and your writing is just hate speech, like Ynet. The secular zionists are deconstructing this land,because they can no longer hold on to it. And if you talk about you loving the land so much how come that more then one million israelis are living outside of israel. Simply said zionism has failed the same way as communism and facism. The principles of zionism were wrong from the beginning for this land. Herzl was right you should have moved to uganda ,that is were you belong. As long as there are torah jews there will be an israel, with only socalled israelis like yourselves we will be gone soon.

is not this or that, but that Jews, secular and religious, seem to fail to connect amongst each other. They have long laundry lists of real and perceived injustices, and they keep airing it, instead of washing and fixing it (pardon my trivial analogy). You accuse Israelis of hate speech, but re-read what you wrote - your speech isn't full of hate? think constructively. Secular Jews need religious Jews for ideological backbone and money from Brooklyn, whereas who will defend the strongholds of the orthodox if not police and IDF?

...there would be no more Israel as we wouldve been overrun by Arabs decades ago. You and your kind are a liability, not an asset with your attitude.

FYI,60-80 % of the Russians in Israel are not Jews at all but are smegma infested uncicumcised Goyim. And by the way you write you sound like one too. No real Jew spews forth such hatred for Israel as you do

It is nice to read that others are experiencing many of the benefits of living here vs. abroad. May you continue to have only happiness and success.

If the secular Lefties are so good at defending Israel, why are they so ready to give away the store without a fight? Anybody cares to explain?

The power of the words written in the book which is our history and our heritage is an auxilliary factor to our survival and to the continued triumph over our enemies, but ultimately we will prevail with the rifle and the bravery of those who hold it. With the rifle alone we can prevail, with the book alone we will fall. It is a bit like socialism which cannot survive alone, without capitalism, while capitalism can do ok on its own. I take strong exception to you calling me a "so called Israeli" What I and my family have done for this country and this people in the last 100 years would take a long time for me to tell you and you probably would not understand what I was talking about anyway. I have personally known many Israelis whose acts of bravery are the reason you can call me a "so called Israeli". Shame on you.

1. We're still clinging to the original dream our ancestors had when they first started returning here in the 1800s - that we would all somehow live together 2. Our Jewishness - in contrast to the 'projection of blame' modus operandi our internal and external enemies adore, we want to take responsibility - because we can only truly control our own, no?

I wonder why...

thank you.

I have been to Germany and Israel, and I can tell you that the quality of life in Germany is way better than in Israel. In Israel there is the continuous threat of war and terrorism, with soldiers running around with machineguns everywhere. I didn't feel safe in situation like that. Germany was certaintly much more pleasant. And when you look at the quality of life in Israel, it's just not worth all that fighting. The streets are dirty and filthy with garbage everywhere. The air, water and land are polluted, with absolutely no concern for the environment. The buildings are poorly constructed with no maintainance, and the cost of living is very expensive. If you rent an apartment in Israel, you have to pay the apartment tax. In America and Germany, the owner pays the taxes. In addition, good paying jobs are hard to come by in Israel. People are working six days a week just to pay the rent. So don't tell me how great everything is in Israel. I know many Israelis who left the country because they had no chance to make a decent living there. If wealthy Jews want Jews to come to Israel they need to get peace with the Arabs, change the political system so that there is less corruption in government, fix up the country and pay better money.

The Rambam decreed that the commandment to settle and live in the land of Israel weighs in the balance as equal to all the other commandments together. You have fulfilled this commandment and proud you should be. The Rambam was a devout Jew, a learned Rabbi and doctor who all his life prayed and loved his people and the Torah but he also gave willingly to all and sundry. Unfortunately Israel today has a growing number of ultra radical orthodox whose conception of being Jewish and living in Israel is a one way street, take all and give nothing. Life and reality must be looked at squarely in the eyes and one must face the challenges and not opt for a cop out. If you wish to eat an apple from the tree you must climb the tree or shake it, if you wait till the apple falls it will be over ripe or rotten. Effort is required, miracles do not happen, men make miracles happen.

Of our 4000+ year history, we survived 2000 years with the Book alone. Not one nanosecond of our history have we EVER survived with weapons alone. The secularist argument that Israel wouldn't exist if it weren't for the seculars is pure crap. There is no one who cannot be replaced; not in business, not in the military and, most assuredly, no one is irreplaceable before the Creator of this universe. That's unparalleled arrogance. Our Book records that Sedom would have been spared for 10 just men. Learn the lesson of how the Creator values a minyan. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Erev Shabbat and Erev Khag in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

If you actually read what I wrote, it said that is was "reported" that means it was in the media that this happened. I wasnt there, it didnt happen to me and the facts can only be substantiated by the report. So the fact that you think it was because I was a 'week' (and its weak actually) Englishman is not really relevant...and even if I was there your comment did not make sense in English anyway... By the way for your comment in #56 if you actually know your history and your current affairs, you know that Russia is a breeding ground for anti-Semitism. If it wasnt for WWII and the German's Final Solution then it would probably be known as the most anti-Semitic country ever! By the way, in case you didnt know, Stalin, before his death in 1953, was planning a purge of Jews called the 'Doctors Plot'. This would have wiped out millions of Soviet Jewry on the same scale as the Nazi attrocities... (The old psychopathic, paranoid, mass murderer died before he could implement thank goodness). The Russians are just supersticious, anti-Semitic, bunch of peasants. I am sorry but its true. If it is so good over there, why are you in the West? When are you planning to move back to mother Russia? When Moscow decides to sort its decaying plumbing system out, which means you have to boil your brown tap water during July and August whilst the engineers do necessary repairs...? Sounds lovely(!)

So you couldn't cut it here? So your "stuff" & laziness means more to you than faith & culture? So you have to comfort yourself with relentless, ignorant demagoguery? Thank G_d I don't have to call you my neighbor .

Six million going to the gas chambers with a book and no rifle. This is what you call survival ? I do not doubt for one moment the importance of the book and the power of the words, but the rifle speaks louder, especially when the enemy is hovering over you day and night with one declared intention, destruction.

how can you say they´re no Jews? How come they were persecuted in the Russian empire and had only limited opportunities in the former Soviet Union? You´re talking crap. For me for example the Ethiopian "Jews" are no Jews. That´s the key problem and therefore the "all Jews unite" stuff doesn´t work! Who told you that I hate Israel? critisising Israeli policy doesn´t mean to hate the country! Being a supporter of peace instead of war is hatred? dude, you´re one of the brainwashed zionists David was talking about. Zionism actually promotes hatred like all the other "isms".

right on! true. Although Germany is not the only one country which has a much higher living standard and safety standard in the world. Take Canada, Australia, the US, the Scandinavian countries, the Czech Republic (which is becoming richer every year and has a great Jewish quarter in the center of Prague!). that´s true, most of my friends and relatives in Israel earn approx. 5000 - 7000 Shekels which is nothing compared to Germany/US/Canada.

actually the most antisemitic country in the world was Poland, where the Poles started to kill the Jews even before the Nazis had arrived.

Eretz Israel belongs to Hashem and He gives it to the Righteous. The Bible does not say anything about G-d giving the Land to secular Zionists. And don't think for a minute that Hashem needs your gun power to give the Land to Jews. If we kept Torah, we would have an Israel 10 times the size of this secular state, and without any fighting. It will be just like it says in the Torah, "Stand still and see the salvation of Hashem..." Now that's power that money and guns can't obtain. There is no salvation in a secular Zionist state.

Secular Zionists trangressing the laws of Torah is the reason why six million were killed in the Holocaust. The hatred in your heart nor the gun in your hand will not be enough to save my soul. So as soon as you start practicing some Yiddishkeit over there in Israel, the safer we are all going to be.

Adam- you sound like a very thoughtful guy, but I think you have things confused. People you are referring to are not russian Jews. They are immigrants from FSU with some Jewish backrounds, generally far removed from russian Jewry. It is an important distinction one must make. They came to Israel primarily due to very unwise policy of Israeli government and Jewish agency who in mid 1990s were more concerned with numbers of immigrants and not with quality. These russians terrorize russian Jews who are actually Jewish. The absolute majority of Russian Jews are highly committed to Israel. Look at the proportion of Russian Jews wounded and dying in combat units, and you will see a clear pattern. Russian alia has also transformed Israeli society for the better in unimaginable extent-giving it tremendous economic growth in mid 1990s. The basic issue with all these thugs is that the Law of Return must be amended to get rid of grandfather clause. Moreover, Sokhnut must be reformed to actually promote Jewish immigration to Israel. Hopefully, one day there will be a Russian Nefesh bNefesh. Regarding the choices of where to live for Russian Jews. My family had an opportunity to live in Israel, yet it chose the US. It is a well known thing that had the majority of Russian Jews had a choice to come to the US, they would have done so. In fact, until 1989 this was exactly the pattern. It only stopped because Shamir government pressured the US to limit refugee status to those Russain Jews in the US with direct family ties. The reason is that Israel as a country had failed to provide them with the same level of normal life as the US does. THIS IS A FAILURE OF ISRAELI POLITICAL SYSTEM, NOT AN IDEOLOGICAL ISSUE. I am almost absolutely certain that my parents would have to sweep the floors in Israel, but not work as engineers. They would feel foreever humiliated, and would be eternally depressed, to say the least, Maybe after 10 or so years, they would have gotten somewhere. In the US, they both got decent jobs within first couple of years. Ignoring this issue is stupid. Israeli government knows it. It is ultimately not about ideology. I know quite a few committed religious Jews in America who, upon making aliah, had to come back to the US because they cannot make ends meet in Israel. and I am not even talking about 800,000 former Israelis that live in the US.

What does Yiddishkeit have to do with Israel or authentic Judaism, for that matter? Eastern Euro shtetl existence is the very antithesis of real Judaism.

one or the other should suffice if not both!

I am sorry that I was not clear with my distinction. I was course I was referring to a lot of people with some 'Jewish Ancestry' who abuse the system and whose feelings may actually be anti-Semitic. I was not referring to genuine Russian Jewry who come to Israel and are trying to escape this scum.

I'm not advocating abandoning our defenses. I'm certainly not defending the Khareidim. I served in Tzahal with distinction and my daughter serves in Tzahal right now. I agree completely that our enemy hovers over us with the sole intention of our destruction. If you can find a dictionary that will define survival non-circularly, you'll find it means to endure, persist, remain, be left -- be a remnant. Scripture describes exactly that: after a major straying by Israel as a kindred, only a שארית (sh'eirit; remnant) will survive the consequences. The Shoah directly followed the formation of the Reform Movement in Europe -- the consequence of abandoning the Book, not the rifle. They didn't have rifles (meaning military superiority) to abandon. The numbers of my previous message are indisputable. We not only can, we HAVE survived without the rifle for thousands of years. The rifle is important but neither primary nor indispensable. By contrast, there is NO empirical evidence whatsoever that we could survive for a moment without Torah -- despite the arrogant and foolish claims of seculars. The point is not that the rifle is unimportant, the point is that the Torah is more important than the rifle. With solely the rifle you MAY (?) cling to a piece of the land a few more years but, having no rightful claim, the Arabs, Muslims and world will soon kick you off the land to which you offer no rightful claim other than, perhaps, racism (which would validate Haman-dinejad's argument - Why punish the recent inhabitants of this land for the Shoah?). With solely the rifle, it could not be Israel or Jew anyway; merely some vaguely western-satellite hedonocracy. Without Torah, you couldn't even claim to be as Semitic as the Arabs. How far do you think DNA would take you to achieving sovereignty over this land? Who will buy conspicuous racism? Only with Torah can you have a rightful historical claim to the land as well as the indispensable original and authoritative definition of Israel and the Jew. There is neither Israel nor Jew without the defining and authoritative ancient documentation: Torah. Despite their denials, both Christians and Muslims recognize that authority for denying it eliminates the very foundations of their Displacement Theologies. What's needed is doing one's utmost to keep Torah first and rifles second. PS: the most popular Israeli Jewish newspaper not publishing candlelighting times on Erev Shabbat and Erev Khag in its on-line counterpart is a disservice to Jewish readers and a disgrace to Israel. Even ha-Aretz publishes candlelighting times. Paqid Yirmeyahu Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

I made aliyah from the States and am very happy here. Maybe my family and I have less money here than we would have had in the States, but so what!!! We have been here for 35 years and never want to leave. Whoever really loves Eretz Yisroel comes to live here. Those who don't, love the Galut more. Hashem gave us this land, so here is where we belong. If more caring Jews from all over the world would come, many of our problems would be solved. We may yet lose this Land because not enough Jews will give up their luxuries in the Galut (G-d forbid). If there are not enough Jews here, then the Arabs will inherit the Land.

"Secular Zionists transgressing the laws of Torah is the reason why six million were killed in the Holocaust" Wow... I thought it was Hitler's fault. My mistake...