I don't see that you are disagreeing with your friend , why ? She said that she was amazed by the behaviour of brave Poles , there were [ more than 6000 Righteous ] You that you were afraid of your neighboors . Why not agree that there were good Poles , and traitors ? And the good ones were very good , they risked their ,and their family , lives You had traitors in whole of occupied Europe , and you had brave and very brave people too . In my birth country we knew also both kinds of people .

quote: eg April still doesn’t know why the Polish Army sent to prevent pogrom in Kielce, started the killing. Peter, the problem is that according to Kakolewski it was not the Polish army at all, but Soviets acting as Poles. He really presented a lot of avidence for that. Try to get that book. No one questions that there were many Jews fighting together with Poles against Germans and Soviets. We all learn about it at schools. We also learn about Bruno Schulz , Singer, and many other great Polish Jews. It is part of our history. Be assured that we all appreciate their contribution to our culture. What makes us sad is that only one side of the story is very known to most Israelis and the world. Why there is no single movie about brave Poles risking their lives for their Jewish fellows? There are 6000 proved stories. What about books? Even Polanski's Pianist is advertised as a story about a good German who helped a talented Jewish artist. Polish government introduced informational brochures for young Israelis visiting Poland, but they were rejected by Israel as apparently not political correct (instead of the word nazis, words Nazi Germans were used). It is not about forgetting Polish sins, but presenting the whole true. Do you bear the grudge to France for handing over more that 90,000 to Germans? What about Brits sinking boats full of Jewish refugees heading to Palestine? Neither Poland nor Polish people participated in institutional crimes against their fellow Jews. Just inoposite. Most cases of single crimes were punished either by Home Army or after the war by Polish courts. Rafal

"What makes us sad is that only one side of the story is very known to most Israelis and the world." What makes me said, is the dark part of Jewish history in Poland, their behaviour against their Polish neighbours completely ingnored and not told; this bad part, where Jews betrayed Poland and Poles.

You completely twisted and reversed my post to suit your needs. Intimidation, horror, 'we find you later'?! WTF? Are you sane, dude? Jews did go for a 'killing spree' and YOU know that. Once supported by Soviet invaders they started to show off. AK had a nice program? They had ONLY ONE program - defent Poland and Poles any enemy - domestic or foreign. That's the aproach of EVERY ARMY. Jews joining the communist who fought against Poland and Poland were an ENEMY, don't you get it?! Look what Jews did in Koniuchy and Naliboki! No, to na razie, means 'k, see you' that's it. Don't put words into my mouth 'comerad'. Where do you live in Poland? What Voivodship (województwo) and what was it before? Cheers,

Pogrom of Jews in Warsaw in 1940, LOL, yeah, perhaps, but by Germans. Soviet involvement in Kielce is reported constantly by various historians, now, when hidden libraries are open, hidden documents are found and Poles ARE FREE. Keep telling you: 45 years of shutting our mouths and spitting on Poland with false propaganda is OVER. You are more pathetic that I previously thought, Piotrek. And now 'went underground'. Being there, get some books and read about history, then come out from the sewers (that's where you're going, I presume) and talk with us. No, to na razie, Piotrek. Boo, don't get too scared, idiot.

Ad # 23: "Yeahh, Greg. My family was sheltering a Jewish boy in they farm during the war. " If they were sheltering a boy, than they MUST HAVE been Polish or at least Christian. Re: # 45 You know that Kondrad is not Jewish, yet you finish your post with: "I can continue if you wish clarifying this message for you... Shalom" Do you see a confict here, or do I have to draw it to you? Stop pretending to be a Pole, Charles.

1939. Stupid Polacks prepare to attack Germany in order to kill their Jews (they kept their, Polish Jews already in concentration camps) and look to attack Soviets to do to the same. German and Soviet intelligence find it out (stupid Polacks). Germany attacks first, 1 Sep 1939, all they want is freedom and happy life for their Jews and all Jews, also those in Polish concentration camps. Soviets attack soon, 17 Sept 1939, they want the same for their Jews, but they got confused with Ribbentrop-Molotov pact - could not decipher it. 1941 - stupid Polacks know the war goes wrong, they start killing Jews in KL's - they want their factories - it never occured to them they could asked Jews first, those stupid Polacks - and all Jewish property. 1945, war ends miserably for Poles, oops, stupid Polacks, they still try they luck to kill as many Jews as possible, in Kielce, but heroes from Soviet army don't allow to kill all of the Jews. After 1945 - Poland is taken prisoner by Soviets - contentration camps are restored, so Poles can ALWAYS see, what they did. The End. How do you like this version of history? Ohhh...... I am SURE you would start teaching this crap soon in IL.

Yeah, Jack, true, but: who was the audience? Jews in Poland who already know all of this. What part of his speech will be re-printer, or wow! televised in the US, Israel or other countries? I doubt if any. If it was, I wouldn't be surprised he would be marked as an antisemite. By his own people...

Well nicely rewritten , but please stay serious , don't make your case worse .

You wrote : stop pretending to be a Pole , Charles . Is this the way you read "your" history books ? His this the way you "write" history ? Where did i pretend to be a Pole ?

Charles, Charles.... don't you really know that those Poles who murdered Jews were TOALLY NOT acting as Poles, they were acting as CAPITALISTS?! Your post is INSANE, you are INSANE. Chris from Warsaw tried to have a conversation with you, he pointed out, when you were SOOOO OVERPROTECTIVE about communists: 'Charles, swap communists with NAZIS and then look at your sentences' You were sitll defending Jewish commies then. You still don't get it, do you?

"Jack wouldn’t generalize" Oh, you, of course do NOT generalize, Charles/Peter, right? Every of your posts, even one saying 'Oh, Poles saved so many Jews' conveys an anti-Polish venom of yours, there's ALWAYS a 'BUT'. You are n.........zi zionist Charlie/Pete Boy, and your hate toward Poles probably should help you to find some nice hospital without door knobs. Take it easy, enjoy the rest of your weekend. Cheers, G

"stop pretending to be a Pole , Charles. Is this the way you read "your" history books ? His this the way you "write" history ? " I am sorry, I truly don't understand. What your alter ego Peter, hiding in Poland and spitting on Poles has anything to do with my reading history books, and GOD forbid writting the History?! "Where did i pretend to be a Pole ? " Acting as your alter ego Peter, digging a deeper hole in Poland

Oh, I am SURE you and all of Jews on this forum liked that version, and would love it to become the on-going version of history.

Don't turn around the pot , say clearly you don't like anybody but yourself . You are truely a paranoiac guy , even when i say that there were good Poles , you see something wrong in it . So why continue discussing , and waste my time . One advice , let your eyes be checked , you are becoming blind , or worse , you don't want to see what happened in your hate towards others

one last thing . This Peter tells what he lives , you in your LA can't see this , he lives it in his daily life . And this is a non Pole who writes it

Love myself? Being paranoiac? WTF? Look AROUND, dude, look what you did with Poland and Poles over the years! "Poles murdered 6 million Jews" "Poles invented holocaust" "Holocaust couldn't have happened without help of Poles" bluh, bluh, bluh, there tons of shit like that over the net, and the above nice words are quotation from THIS VERY FORUM. A Jewish youngster after visiting Auschwitz: Now I could go and murder Poles. Is THAT what you teach in Israel?! AM *I* paranoiac?! "in your LA can't see this , he lives it in his daily life" and WHAT does he live?! Half of my friends in Poland are Jewish or have Jewish roots. Do they hide?! That's the BIGGEST BULLSHIT of this forum. Give me a breake, dude. Get real.

"n your hate towards others" I don't hate YOU, I don't hate ANYBODY. But I'd rather stop reading BS on this forum, cuz I might. I am bitter about on-going LIES about Poland and Poles.

Words of Adam Michnik, a well knows Polish Jew. http://www.racematters.org/polesjewsdeepguilt.htm Do you have anything to ad Peter and Charles ? Is he also rewiting the history ?

Dear Rafal, Don’t be, please, over exited by the book of Krzysztof Kakolewski about the Kielce pogrom. Even the most anti-Semitic re-writers of the history now left only one fellow "Russian" in the Polish Army uniform )))) - the one directing the Polish troops, that went out of control and started the killing spree of the Jews in Planty 7 on their own. All these sophisticated theories blaming Soviets, aliens, Secret Police, Zionists, and God knows who else, collapse in the presence of the evidence, the witnesses account. The mob of our very Catholic countrymen, very patriotic and very demoralized by the war, didn’t spare even those on the street whose look resembled somehow Semitic race, so two of the dead victims were also ethnic Poles. Especially for you I have a reading of the murder scene in Kielce-Herbskie station: http://forum.gazeta.pl/forum/72,2.html?f=904&w=62755776&a=62755776 It’s in Polish, so you could probably better relate to the grotesque of the haunting of the Jews by the accidental Polish commuters and the merciless killing of the Jews by the ordinary people that just happened to be there. What strikes me is that the murderers didn’t know each other but in all these cases they acted together as one closely knitted group of primitive hunters. Polish anti-Semitism wasn’t murderous before the war, but Germans changed that by showing to the Poles what is legitimate to do to the Jews. Unfortunately despite the official announcement by the Home Army that acting against the Jews will be punishable by death didn’t changed much. NSZ never respected that order anyway.

Dear Charles, There is no such a Polish Jew who wouldn’t experience acts of hostility from the Poles before, during and/or after the war. I thought you know that… What my Jewish friend was doing in this situation, was idealizing the Poles in my presence knowing that I have many scores to settle with my compatriots. We just reversed the usual roles the Poles and Jews have in their discussions about the past. Unfortunately we cannot impose that attitude on others and have a public discussion in which the Poles would be condemning the country’s horrendous treatment of the Jews and the Jews comforting them that not everything was so bad… ))) Polish intellectual elite tries to educate the Poles about the country’s dark chapters of the history. In my opinion what has been done till know is far from enough. Someone even said that the causes of the Jedwabne massacre are still present in Poland. (“Przyczyny mordu w Jedwabnem wciaz nie ustaly”). Some reactions to my and your writings might suggest that Poles are still struggling with our past and blaming the victims is still on the agenda. Shalom

I have read this article by Adam Michnik . What does he say ? the same as i do . There were bad , very bad Poles [ this pogrom that murdered 1600 Jews and other such facts ] and there were brave Poles , more than 6000 Righteous and probably much more , anonymous people who helped and saved Jews .But he tells also about the antisemite feelings of Polish people [ not of THE Polish people ] . Regarding the extreme right who fought against the nazis , this happened in other occupied countries too , in France for example I said it in a tb some time ago . I think that the nazis choose to install their death camps in Poland for logistical reasons , there were 3 million Jews there . Gregory , my name is Charles .

There died AT MOST 300 people, not 1600 as lier Gross tries to sell, constantly. Whatever numbre died, that is sorry, but don't blame it all on Poles: there are evidences, that Germans were present there.

Charles, Peter: you are both one and beautiful person.

Dear Jack, If you want to know my opinion about the Michnik’s essay about the massacre in Jedwabne, than I need to tell you that it was one of the voices of the Polish Jews comforting us, the ethnic and Catholic Poles, telling us that despite the atrocious past we are coming back on the international stage as a great nation, because we were able to confront the past and learn from it. The essay was written 6 years ago during the great debate that, we were hoping, would change the nation. Unfortunately, again, as it has already happened many times in the Polish history, during these 6 years the Poles lost their chance to be promoted to the group of civilized nations that, as other European nations, have been able to come to grips with the past. It is an absolute disgrace that the investigation to even more horrific murderers of Jews than in Jedwabne that happened in Radzilow and Wasosz in July 1941 still wasn’t finished and the results published. It a shame to the nation that this subject just disappeared from the Polish media and one of the best Polish journalists that had the guts to talk about it had to express her frustration about the whole situation in… Bulgarian paper, because the Polish editors were too scared to reveal to the public the unwanted truths: http://www.jewish.org.pl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=395&Itemid=62 Shalom

Jack asked me to read this essay by Michnik , for him a reference , a Jewish view , for him a non biaised writer i suppose . If you don't like this , tell it to Jack . Thank's for the beautiful person , but Peter is not Charles , we are two different persons . You will maybe not believe it , but you don't believe many things .

In some countries people have apologised for the behaviour of those authorities during the Shoah . President Chirac in 1995 , the mayor of Antwerp [ Belgium ] this year . This was helping a certain reconciliation . As i said it more than once , there were all sorts of people , in the whole of occupied Europe . I don't think that Greg and Jack represent the ideas of the Poles in general , the same as your and my ideas don't represent the whole other side . PS Polish is "chinese" for me , i don't understand .

Thank you for your respond which is again, very bias and misleading. Peter, mine reason to even respond to your post is not to convince you because I DON"T care about you. There is plenty of "anti" people on this planet....anti- Semites, anti-Black, anti-Arab, anti-Gay, anti-Globalization etc, etc, etc.... You are just happen to be anti Polish and I’m here not to change that. I'm here to get the historical truth out to the broad public. Some time ago when Poland was still under communist oppression with Polish history being written by the Soviets and before the internet, people like you could freely "spit in Polish face" with lies such as "Poles build concentration camps and were guards in Auschwitz" or "Poles were worse that the Germans” nonsense. I saw posts like this with mine own eyes.... Poland is free now, access to information in fantastic and people like you are loosing the ground. Your posts are more moderate now. There is no more "Poles collaborated with the Germans in the Holocaust" absurd and I'm HAPPY about it. Shalom if you are an Israeli and Pozdrawiam if you are Polish.

Yes Jack, My lack of attachment to the “Polish patriotism and the Christian values” runs in the family. In very “unpatriotic” act they hide a Jewish boy from their neighbours who were “ethnically clearing “ the forest from the remnants of Jews. You are absolutely right. Our countrymen hardly often collaborated with Germans in the murder of Jews. They preferred rather to do it on their own, like in Wasosz in July 1941, for example. Cheers