Jewish Scene
Polish prosecutors mull pressing charges against Holocaust researcher
Sever Plocker
Published: 14.01.08, 09:59
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
164 Talkbacks for this article
1. Now it's their turn...
bruno emanuel albano ,   lisbon;Portugal   (01.14.08)
We used till now to hear that germany had all the blame, but is that so? Hilberg, Wirtsch, Gilbert and other reference historians say that the germans would never acheived the unspeakable results without help. We cannot forget that in Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine, Moldavia, Romania and in a fairly less scale Hungary, there was an outrageous anti-semitism before and during WWII. Germany has recognized and has proved a changement of atitude, but what about them? 40 years of communism maybe have disguised some things, but now it's their turn to be called to responsibilty. i'm not seeing any Willy Brandt or Konrad Adenauer at those countries to make actions. Germany and Austria have payed for their actions, but what about them? Nothing till now. Changements will start from now on, you can be sure, belonging to Europe doesn't mean just getting money...just wait. Long Live Bulgaria, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Netherlands,the Italian People, Portugal and Spain for receiving and helping our people! May their names be blessed forever!
2. Well said, Bruno.
Kev ,   London   (01.14.08)
3. It Will Never Happen
Jose' ,   Israel   (01.14.08)
If this were brought to the attention of the Polish Minister whose picture was taken with a group of Israeli investors, the zealous prosecutor could be made to change his mind. Poland along with other eastern European countries has become a favorite target of Israeli investors.
4. They can't hide behind laws and cover up the truth
Sarah ,   Modiin, Israel   (01.14.08)
1946 was after the nazis left and before the communist turned up. So no hiding behind that one. It is no surprise that most of the Polish jews were murdered during the holocaust. They had full cooperation from the locals. Those same locals that don't want to take responsibility for their crimes. The pogrom that occured in Kielce in 1946 is infamous and just proves what hate the Poles have for Jews. No amount of "legislation" is going to stop that.
5. To Bruno
Spaniard ,   Spain   (01.14.08)
Well, Italy signed the "racial laws" and collaborated with the Nazis deporting thousands of Jews, and Franco's Spain saw Jews, communist and masons as the worst enemies of the State. We should take care of this emerging new Eastern Europe, which is quite ultra-catholic and retrograde. I wonder if the laicist values of Europe will survive amidst growing muslim stone-age migrants and this new country-side Ratzinger-like new EU members....
6. Just for the accuracy Bruno
Sarah ,   Modiin, Israel   (01.14.08)
Just to be accurate, the only two countries where the population actively did their utmost to get the Jews to a safe place was Denmark and Bulgaria. Sweden was "neutral", Norway had Quisling nazis in the government, and most of the Jews were murdered. Spain mostly protected Jews if they managed to get in; Most of the Dutch Jews were murdered. This does not negate from the individuals in many countries who risked their lives to save Jews; but it was not on the National level as it was in Denmark.
7. Want to hear a Polish joke?
Jack ,   San Diego, USA   (01.14.08)
Poland was not then, and is currently not anti-semetic!
8. to Modiin - nobody is hiding the fact.
Justine   (01.14.08)
Well, it's me again. Just wanted to add that nobody is really "hiding" anything here, independently of the idiocy of the current behavior of the prosecutor. Contrary to "Neighbours" "Fear" does not offer any new facts. All that is there is already available in other publications. The controversy is mainly about where he is going with that rather than the facts. The issue of the Kielce pogrom is widely known in Poland - Walesa issued apologies for that in 1993 I believe and now there is a monument in Kielce in memory of the event.
9. #6
Moran ,   Denmark/Israel   (01.14.08)
Dear Sarah You are talking about the time DURING WWII...The Polish are by nature anti semites..it is simply in their veins...you don´t have to go far back in history to find progromes from their side....in the 1960´s Wladyslaw Gomulka lounched a huge anti Zionist, or rather anti Jewish campain with all the nasty retoric of the past....this resulted in thousands of Jews escaping from Poland...In Denmark in the spring of 1968 the government simply opened the gates unconditionally to 3000 Polish Jewish people..........nobody could believe that history repeated parts again... I personally would NEVER set foot in Poland no matter what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10. Regarding your comments
bruno emanuel albano ,   lisbon, Portugal   (01.14.08)
I thank you all for your comments. I must also add something, regarding the countries that officially helped to protect the communities, they were: Finland (who refused to deport more people, when they heard about the killings), Bulgaria (who ignored the requests, and helped pass people to Turkey), Denmark (whose people and government helped pass all to Sweden). Regarding all the other countries, we must count the resistance movements and the society pressure to hide people. Spain was important, because they allowed the people to go by train and other ways to Portugal,not harming them, that without counting the diplomats actions in Budapest. Portugal welcomed the people and didn't allow nobody to be harmed. Italy, of course, signed the racial laws, but didn't apply them till 1943, Hitler used to curse Italy for not taking action, just look at the Italian occupation zone at France. they thought that Hitler was mad . After 1943, the pro-Nazi Salo Republic made all the damage. we must also think about Wallenberg, who made it with the swedish government support. Sweden also hidded refugees with the support of the scadinavian resistance movements. In Netherlands, the society and resistance tried to help somewhat.
11. About Bruno
Freddy S. Glatt ,   Rio de Janeiro-Braz.   (01.14.08)
You forgot Belgium where many Jews were deported to the extermination camps, among them my two older brothers and my grandparents. I was hidden the last seven months by the JOC, Jeunesse Ouvriere Chretiene. Even so, 4 Jewish boys were taken by the SS 3 months before our liberation by the US Army. Two didn't return, two did, one on a stretcher and one without a leg he lost after a beating in camp. Freddy - Rio de Janeiro
12. Reminds of the bully who beat up his victim
Chaim ,   Canada   (01.14.08)
because he called him a bully.
13. Poland
Eve ,   USA   (01.14.08)
I wish my father, a holocaust survivor would be alive to tell you about Poles. They cooperated with the Nazies, pointed out to them where to find the Jews, killed in cold blood with knifes. They continued to do this during the war and after the Holocaust. My father's brothers that survived the terrible war were killed by Poles after liberation. My mother escaped the Kielce pogrom. People lets get REAL.
14. To Moran: It is not about Poles but about Catholic Church!
Spaniard ,   Spain   (01.14.08)
Come on, nobody is born with hatred in their veins! It is just a matter of education.
15. Poland-Jan Gross
khader herzallah ,   DH S.A   (01.14.08)
Re # 1 I am amazed how can countries like Lithuania,Poland,Slovakia,Ukrania, Moldovia,Romania,Hungary, be wrong in their feelings towards jews. You believe that you are as pure as crystal while other nations are full of sins.When those countries took anti-semetic attitude towards you they took it because they lived that era and felt the damage you are causing to them.No one hates any one for nay reason,You must realize that not all jews or christians or muslims are angels.There are lot of bad guys in every religion but it seems that your share was and is bigger than others.Be realistic.
16. @Bruno no.1
Andrzej ,   Warsaw, Poland   (01.14.08)
Bruno and All, Before writing such bullsh&%t please DO COUNT trees planted in Yad Vashem by country. PLEASE, PLEASE DO!!! Then pls read this website: http://www.zyciezazycie.pl/ it has English version also. Please.
17. @Moran no. 6
Andrzej ,   Warsaw, Poland   (01.14.08)
Moran, Please tell me: why so many Jews were living in Poland before WW II? Why there and not in Denmark, Norway, Englad and so on. Why they choose country where everybody "hated them? WHY?!?!? BTW The Polish are by nature anti semites..it is simply in their veins." I am sick hearing this as you would be while reading something like "Jews are by nature evil. The have hatred in their veins"? Sound nice for you? Or sounds like bloody, stupid stereotype? Tell me.
18. ending comment
bruno emanuel albano ,   lisbon, portugal   (01.14.08)
You're right, i 've forgotten Belgium. speaking about the Shoa it's not easy, it's difficult and it touched me closely. im descendant of the Marranos. Honestly, i dont hate neither despise these countries, i just dont give them consideration, but i have hope that maybe they will change. Einstein was right: it's more easy to break an atom than prejudice. to conclude: "the priests said: you don't have the right to live as jews. The princes said: you don't have the right to live within us. the nazis said: you don't have the right to live" Raul Hilberg: the destruction of the european jews, 1961 Learn, learn, try to learn the signs and fight to be human. read hannah arendt: "origins of totalitarism"
19. Poles and WWII
Eve ,   USA   (01.14.08)
For those of you that are interested you can read many testimonies of survivors. One of them was my wonderful mother. The ONLY ONE survivor of thousands of member of her family (most were murdered by Poles). She came from a city that was near to Jedwabne (I also had family members there that were slaughtered there). Here is her testimony immediately after liberation. http://www.szczuczyn.com/grajewoYB-document.htm
20. Poles and WWII
Eve ,   USA   (01.14.08)
For those of you that would like more information on the role of Poles and Poland in the destruction of the Jewsih Community.... you can find it on: http://www.jewishgen.org/yizkor/ and http://www1.yadvashem.org/remembrance/names/site/home_names.html
21. #1
mark ,   ca   (01.14.08)
Bravo,Bruno!
22. Andrej # 16
charles ,   petach tikva   (01.14.08)
You are right , there are many Names of righteous Poles at Yad Vashem , but proportionally to the number of Jews in Poland , much less than in other countries . You can say , and i know it , that by hiding Jews in Poland , you risked your , and your family lives . But Kielce was AFTER this period , there were'nt nazi troops there anymore . And don'y come with the anti polish Jewish communists who supported the Russian invasion before the outbreak of WWII , it's not kielce related .
23. vat you do to niggeh vat retartsed?
tadeuz kojowski ,   krak polind   (01.14.08)
sendes hem to polan to be head proffesr
24. The poles
bachrach Andres ,   kfarsaba il.   (01.14.08)
The poles are the most heartless materialistic people what I have known.I am not a pole I am a hungarian born jew.After the russians reached the Karpat mountains,where we were laborcamp worker amid the hungarian soldier's,they the russians took us as prisoners as well.In wain we told them that we are jewish.After thay took us we begin to march to some camp via Poland.In the evening we were to remain by the barn of a polish peasant,who were not ashamed to buy, by giving the russians some wodka,many of our shues.Even knowing that the next day these young boys have to march shueless and barefoot. Andy mi hakfar.
25. Eve, my heart goes to you, your mom, and family
chanan ,   USA   (01.14.08)
I've read everything Jan Gross wrote that I could get my hands on including his latest book and he is a wonderful scholar in tackling these horrible events. Another interesting book is "Neighbors respond" to Jan Gross's "Neighbors" in which many articles published in Poland are reproduced that reflect the mood in today's Polish society which basically is a confirmation by Poles themselves of the atmosphere Gross describes in "Fear." One of the most telling pieces in "Neighbors respond" is by a Polish Professor who was born in Jedwabne after WW2. She knows from home about the events there and experienced first hand how Poles in that town still deny to outsiders that anything has ever been done by Poles there, it is solely the German's fault they say. I want to apologize to you for not finding the courage yet to read your source, it is so hard to do that, I have a book over 1000 pages with stories about the communities in Poland before WW2 I bought several years ago and what happened to them and I still cannot get myself to read it.
26. The 'real' Poland comes to light!
David ,   Hartford USA   (01.14.08)
In one of Hilberg's books, The Boys, he tells of Jewish slave labor camp inmates that were allowed to eat the unwanted remains of the Polish worker's meals. Those meals, as meager as they were, were enhanced by the Polish workers putting out their cigarettes in the watery mush and adding dirt from the floor and whatever else the workers could find. Krackow's DA must be an idiot or, dare I say it, an anti-semite. As for 'slandering Poland' - when it comes to its WWII behavior, that's impossible. The DA sounds like he's trying to imitate those Muslim states that imprison and behead people for 'slandering' (telling the truth) their 'great' countries. In this case, DA stands for Dumb Ass.
27. I have to agree with #15
chanan ,   USA   (01.14.08)
The "Nakba", daily assassinations of terrorists in Gaza, restrictions on trade, movement of people, food, employment and denying Arabs a 23rd State is right since they must have done something wrong and do not deserve it. When you want to apply a general principle please try to apply it universally when it is happening to your UMMMMMMAH too, not only when it applies to others. But of course only sons and pigs and monkeys can be blamed, the vastly superior and terribly advanced Muslims are angels, they never do any wrongdoing. No matter if 90% of all the violent conflicts in the world are at least with one side being Muslim, however even when both sides of the conflict are Muslims it is still someone else's fault like in Darfur, right?
28. to #15
bruno emanuel albano ,   lisbon, portugal   (01.14.08)
Dear Sir: please check my inital and ending commentary. if you look carefully, what i'm writing, is: recognize your past, not as a humiliation, but something that you must recover from. hate is as bad for the one who suffer as for who causes it. im descendt from survivors of the inquisition, and i've lived close to the deportation place. 500 years ago there was a terrible massacre in Lisbon that killed 3000 jews, and we had to recognize it, otherwise it will haunt you. every religion have their fanatics. the damage that i've caused? which damage? when you're a foreigner, you have to work twice your image, specially if you have another religion and that one fills the angers and fears of other religion, that say you were the old one, no more need for it.
29. Poland rocks
toti ,   Hungary   (01.14.08)
Poles are nice guys, Germans are too, and this talking bout anti-semitism is pretty sleep-inducting. You jews shoult read the book from Herzl - Der Judenstaat. He wrote that way before ww2.
30. to Bruno - Hungary during and after WWII
Justine   (01.14.08)
Well, the first posts I sent were not posted, so let me try again: Institutional collaboration in Hungary was much more extensive than in Poland. And after WWII, there were some events there that mirrored those in Poland. They were not as bloody - in terms of the number of victims, but some Jews were lynched in 1946. You can read about it here: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-76026452.html
Next talkbacks
Back to article