"1946 was after the nazis left and before the communist turned up." 1946 was before the communists turned up? Come on...The communists were there since 1944 - they advanced as the Germans retreated. There is actually a rumor that the Kielce pogrom was organized by the communists in the wake of the ensuing "free" elections. Now, that's a hypothesis, and despite of what some circles in Poland pretend it has never been proven. But there were some fishy things about it and I've seen discussions of this theory in more credible sources and the fact is that Polish communist and Soviet security forces (police and the army) which were both present in Kielce did precious nothing to stop the pogrom which lasted for several hours.

The law is of course idiotic. It is quite new, and if memory serves me it was enacted on demand by two populist/far-right party present in the previous ruling coalition. They were wiped out in the election, but the dead bodies in the closet remain. The constitutional court has been notified that the law is potentially anticonstitutional and it will have to rule on the issue. In any case, it’s not like it’s going to change anything in practical terms – except for providing a terrible PR for Poland. The book is already in sale and most probably will be available on e-mule quite soon (the Polish version of Gross’ Neighbours can already be found there).

Yep, But what I am sauing is - it is not as easy as Bruno and other says. Simplifications cannot lead to anything positive. Poland changed a lot and I think most valuable is if Israelis and Jews in general can come here and see for themselves. This is not antisemic "wild east" as some may think. Poland is a land of Shoah but also land of long coexistence. I admit that there were many pogroms and other tragic events, but remember that this only part of the full picture, which is much brighter then you may have from this conversation. I learn Hebrew in Warsaw in a synagogue and it is not easy to find a free place on the course as many Poles are truly intersted in history and culture of Jews - please consider this. Good piece here: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=871497&contrassID=2&subContrassID=4&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y warm regards guys anyway.

Hungary is a beautiful place (been there a long time ago) and people are very nice :) Hope you don't mind my remarks on Hungary...it's strictly for comparative purposes ;)

Dobry wieczór, Andrzej! Let me tell you: I was in Poland some years ago for summer university in Krakow. The people I met were very friendly and open-minded, especially the young ones. At university they offered interesting lectures about jewish history in Poland. I got the feeling - that like in my country - people start to talk about this history. Anyhow - I´m German and therefore for many in this forum probably not the right person, to refer to this talkback. Czesc Gabi

bring back my 6,000,000 relatives burried somewhere in your country and we'll talk business.

Forty people killed one year after the Holocaust in Kielce. Only two years later close to two hundred people were killed in Deir Yassin massacre. Anyone in Israel wanting to take full moral responsibility for that act?

To all the "clever" people posting here: I was desperately searching all available historical material to find at least one Polish Nazi organization or at least one name of Polish Nazi collaborator who assisted Germans with extermination of Polish Jews and I could not find any. All I ask is a one name of well known Polish Nazi (other than Cukier, he was part German) and not imaginary anonymous guy like my mothers friend etc. Since Poles collaborated with the Germans on such a massive scale as many of you claim, there must be at least one well know Polish collaborator like Philippe Pétain in France, Erik Scavenius in Denmark, Leopold III of Belgium, Vidkun Quisling of Bulgaria etc, etc. There were few anti-Semitic incidents like Jedwabne or Kielce but that was all I could find. What happened to all Polish murderess that killed millions of Jews and why there is no record of it? I could easily find thousands of names of Polish people who saved Jews from the Nazis but not even one name from the "long" list of killers. Can you help me out? There must be millions of those “terrible Poles” still hiding somewhere in Warsaw. Perhaps we should ask "historian" Mr. Gross for assistance ? Your help with reputable historical references will be greatly appreciated.

And tell me, how many ppl have you killed in Palestine. Mass murders had happened there way before ww2. What about zionism? What about the ppl. who have been killed in Europe because of the zionist movement? What about the ppl, who have been killed in Palestine by the so called "settlers". What about the Irgun and the Haganah? These things happened before the WW2. If we look at the organisation level, the philosophy, zionism is much more dangerous.

Let's change the subject a bit and talk about the crimes of the Jews during WWII !!!

Hey Gabriela: You need to talk to the germans about bringing your people back. You've got the ethnicities confused. Where did you get your education ???

Several years ago I met an Israeli who asked about my origins. I told him my family came from Poland. When he said, "So, you are Polish." I responded, "A Jew can not be a Pole." and he nodded in understanding. I don't hate the Poles, I just know them for what they are. Perhaps in another few generations. I always hope. I wish I'd been Danish or Bulgarian. I might have been able to sit on a grandparent's lap.

In the end of the day you will not be able to stand on your feet from the number and size of tragedies Poles have inflicted on Jews, with no resistance on Jews part., prior to WW2 alone

I AM MARRIED FOR 48 YEARS TO A POLISH BORN HAULOCAUST SURVIVOR, AND EVERY NIGHT FOR GOING ON 48 YEAR, MY HUSBAND RELIVES THE TORTURE OF THE CAMPS, THE HATRED, AND THE SLAUGHTER DEATH TRAIN AFTER THE WORLD WAR 11 WAS OVER FOR NINE MONTHS. THE MURDERERS WHO DRAGGED THE REMNANT OF THE CAMP'S SURVIVORS OFF THESE TRAINS WERE GOD DAMN POLES. THEY DIDN'T WANT EVEN THE RENMNANTS OF THE WAR TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMES, FARMS AND BUSINESSES. ANY ONE WHO HAS ANY DOUBTS ABOUT POLISH COMPLICITY BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER WORLD WAR 11, CAN SPEAK WITH MY HUSBAND. ALL POLISH JEWISH SURVIVORS, I HAVE SPOKEN WITH HAVE ALL SAID THE POLES WERE WORSE THAN THE GERMANS. AND AT LEAST GERMANY PAID REPARATION TO THEIR SURVIVORS, AND THEIR HEIRS. WHAT ABOUT POLAND PAYING THE HEIRS OF THEIR MURDERERS AND LIARS, REPARATION OWED THEM? MY HUSBAND'S FAMILY OWNED PROPERTY, FARMS , THEATERS, MOVIE STUDIOS. WHERE IS THEIR REPARATION? THE WORLD DOESN'T EVEN KNOWN ONE IOTA OF HOW DISGUSTING THE POLES WERE, AND STILL ARE, AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED..

And as many Poles. These were two most demolished nations. Almost obliterated. Both. Don't hate Polish people. This can be THE big mistake of your life, you see.

#toti 29//First of all what kind of name is Toti?Are you Toth or Toty,but never mind.You are writing that speaking about antisemitizm induces you to sleep.Two thousend year and you and all the magyars don't es all the keresztenyek can't forget.and don't want to cease to speak about a jewish boy who was killed,not by jews,but the romans and it doesn't induces you to sleep but to kill and opress the jewish people.Please don't be so impatient it is only 65 years what went away,please ebredj fel!!! Andi mi hakfar

Antisemitism became a problem in Russian-occupied Poland in the 19th century, when the Tsar hit on the idea of expelling all Russian Jews (actually they were mostly Caucasian Khazars who'd once embraced Judaism for political reasons) to Poland -- partly because the Jews weren't particularly popular with the Russians and partly just to make life that more difficult for the recalcitrant Poles. Unlike the "old" Jews, who'd been given refuge in Poland in the 14th century by Casimir the Great and who became a fully integrated section of Polish Society (though not assimilated -- they also kept their Yiddish) and who became "part of the landscape", as it were, the "new" Jews from the east had no intention of ever integrating with what they saw as just another subjugated nation. Let's not forget that the first Zionist idea for a "Jewish Homeland" (at the beginning of the 20th century) was not Palestine but what they then called "Judeopolonia", i.e. a huge chunk of what was eastern Poland! Fortunately Poland regained its independence in 1918 and nothing came of this. But the planned treachery left a bitter aftertaste during the inter-war years, as did the inordinate involvement of Jews in the communist movement and in the Russian revolution itself. From a purely political point of view (i.e. leaving aside the Jewish monopoly of trade etc.) Jews in Poland were then as "accepted" and "trusted" as Muslims are in post 07/07 Britain today. Things were made much worse at the beginning of World War II, when -- in Soviet-occupied Poland -- Jews (Polish citizens) collaborated on a truly massive scale with the Soviet secret police, giving them lists of Poles to arrest and deport to Siberia. It goes without saying that: (a) this is still a taboo subject for many Jews, and (b) after World War II the communist regime installed by the Soviets in Poland was largely run by Jews, who'd served the communist cause so well. The wave of "antisemitism" of 1968 was nothing more than an internal squabble in the Polish communist party. The Jews who were kicked out of Poland were all long-serving communist party activists like Mrs. Brus-Wolinska (now living in Oxford -- Poland is still demanding her extradition on murder charges) and Mr. Michnik's brother Stefan (also wanted by Polish courts for murders he committed in the 1950's). Since the beginning of the 1970's many of these Jews have been actively engaged in re-writing Polish history, telling the "West" how badly Jews have been treated by the Poles down the centuries and that Auschwitz was really a Polish invention. And, of course, there were Jews like Jerzy Kosinski (the author of "The Painted Bird"), whose lives had actually been saved by Poles and who'd been brought up in Polish foster families and had everything going for them, who suddenly took it upon themselves to tell English readers how badly they'd been treated in Poland because of their Jewishness. This publicity campaign only really came to an end when Poland became an ally of Britain and America in Iraq. Is it possible to lie so much? Well may you ask. From a Polish perspective, Jews have a lot to answer for. As Yehudi Menuhin once said, their trouble is that they always want to be on the winning side. The Kielce "pogrom" of 1947 you mention was a Russian provocation designed to blacken Poland's name in the West and to "justify" the Russian postwar occupation. It was also designed to encourage Jews to move to Palestine. Stalin himself secretly supported the Zionists in Palestine in order to cause trouble for the Brits and to keep a finger in the regional pie.

Toti is just a nickname i use in this topic. It could have been cucu, topi, whatever. I don't exactly understand what you're talkin bout. You're writing bad English mixed with some even worse written Hungarian words, first of all you should choose the language Hungarian or English. But we can speak German too:))). Here the talk is always bout the so called holocaust, the alleged number of 6 million ppl. I recognize all these things as the business of yours. It's not really about the ppl, it's all about money you can take from us, Europeans, just to buy weapons and kill more Palestinians. You killed the Palestinians all the time from the late 19th century. Just because some jerk called Teodor Herzl has written a book called Der Judenstaat (The jewish state). It was published in 1896. The jerk, you the zionists have sponsored, Hitler, was only 7 years old that time. So don't speak about the nazis, about Poles, Hungarians etc, because you were those who has made an international movement called zionism, you were those, who shot the Palestinians into the sea, you were those, who killed Palestinians by the village and you are those who are always in the headlines.

Chanan, my dear, It's not a game of numbers. It's a question of attitudes. Yours directs you to accuse Poles (preferably, Germans were OK) of any possible war atrocity, but, simultaneously, allows you to exonerate yourself from responsibility for scores of massacres similar to Deir Yassin. Commited a couple of years after the Holocaust - by some of its victims. And, well, speaking of the "tragedies Poles have inflicted on Jews [...], prior to WW2 alone", I'd be glad to hear more about it. Pass on me some of your extensive and impeccable historical knowledge, please.

Then it can go to court and the truth about POlish anti-semitism can be revealed once again to a world that needs little convincing but could use the reminder.

You wanna hear a joke? Jack can spell!

Justine, you know that your word isprecious to me, but don't, please DON'T! apologize too quickly for Kielce. There are more, and more, and more evidents showing that Soviets were involved in this manipulation and that the whole thing was entirely orchestrated by NKVD.

"The Polish are by nature anti semites." Oh, is this because the FACT that Poles offered to Jews the ONLY asylum in Europe, where they could BE save? And they could pray to their gods and speak their langauge WITHOUT being killed or expelled as in ANY OTHER country in Europe? Or maybe this is because a fact that JEWS THEMSELVES called Poland 'A Jewish Paradise'??!?!?!? Boy?!?! Will you answer me THIS?! Geeezzz... one would think we live in XXI (to those idtiots who don't know what this means: TWENTY ONE) centruy, where accesss to ANY document is pretty common..............

Eve... you also forgot to mention that the Poles deliberately started the Second World War, invited the German Nazi troops to kill 3 millions of Polish citizens and destroy 80% of Poland, only, and ONLY to be able to kill those Jews. YOU ARE SICK..

Yo, Specialist of the Faith. If not for those people of Faith, Christian Faith, those Christians who decided to risk their lives to save Jews in Poland, HALF OF YOU wouldn't survive. More respect!

You are wrong , Poland was certainly chosen by the nazis because of logistical reasons , there were three million future victims in the vicinity .

Tom -did I say I hate the polish people??????? I said- Polish court shut up, you have a nerve!

And one of those logistical reasons was the locals' craving- cooperative antisemitisim. After the war was over they skill looked and killed Jews by the knife (fist hand testimony)

Hi Charles, I understand your reply was to Gabriela #36, ( we have quite a few Gabies here). As you probably remember, not long ago I infuriated few of my countrymen by writing on this forum on the issues of the Polish-Jewish history and relationship. I’ve been correcting the historical facts they had them wrong and I tried to convince them to change their point of view. I believe that I managed somehow, at least, to soften some of the hearths ))) Now in this discussion I found quite shocking statements of some Jewish people that, I’m sorry to say, abuse the basic human decency, but more surprising for me is that it is only you ALONE from the huge population of the Jewish people tried to correct at least one stupid point of view. My deepest appreciation for that. I have no doubt, that many Jewish intellectualls that regard themselves highly educated and truly moral, read this discussion, but somehow, for no apparent reason, they are not promted to CORRECT the outrageous statements of their countrymen. Isn't a bad reflection on the Jewish people? How we could comprehend that? SHALOM