The core of historical Christianity is found at its beginning which we read about in the New Testament. While at times historically the "convert or die" ideology was practiced it was due to ignorance of scriptural Christianity which promotes love and peaceful coexistence and not forced conversion. So it's not the core of Christianity and doesn't even have any place in it. The core of New Testament Christianity while encouraging faith in Yeshua respects a persons free will to choose.

One of my reasons for coming to Israel was that I didn't want my (at the time "future") children subjected to missionaries and Christians trying to convert them. While I do not believe that ANYONE should be persecuted for their beliefs, I am highly offended by anyone trying to turn me away from mine. Christian Proselytizing should be prohibited.

The list includes Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham,Sarah, Issac,Jacob,Moses,Gideon, Barak, Samson,Jephthah,David,and Samuel and the prophets. Also did you know that letter X "often stands for the word Christ". btw me,this list is from chapter 11 of the book of Hebrews, also called the faith chapter. Christianity started there not in the U.S.A

israel definitely needs to stop the persecuting these jewish believers in yeshua who said he was the messiah of israel -- as a believer in yeshua i certainly dont even think of persecuting jews -- israel has many enemies, the believers in yeshua are not included ====== shalom=======augustine e johnson-usa

Read it. "Jewish State" Israel is the Jewish State. While it has some form of democracy, at the same time it grants rights to every Jew to immigrate, not just anyone who wants to, but JEWS. For this reason, Judaism enjoys protections that opposing religions do not share. If you want to be a xian, fine, you have the whole rest of the world to live in. JEWS are in Israel to be JEWS, and to be left alone by pernicious xians! And yes, one day and probably very soon, all the laws will be according to the Torah. Get out now while you still can!!

If you'll read the latest scholarship you'll find that, however slowly and begrudgingly, historians are finding no alternative to confirming what I first wrote in the 1970s (Who Are the Netzarim?) and Oxford historian James Parkes published in his dissertation well before that (The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue). Christians are defined by Christian doctrines and Christians doctrines didn't exist as a canonized religion and Church until around the 4th century C.E. Paul, whom the earliest extant Church historian documented that the Netzarim excised as an apostate for his Hellenist (proto-Christian) interpretations, "wrote the book" that prototyped the path to Hellenist apostasy that would eventually become Christianity. Thus, Paul is the father of Christianity. Before 135 C.E., Netzarim were Pharisee Jews--and they never changed. They were vanquished by the gentile Hellenist--antinomian--Roman Christian Church who vilified them as "under the law of sin and death" (meaning Torah) and enemies of the Church, therefore enemies of God and servants of Satan. THAT is the earliest Christians and they were the polar opposite of the followers of *historical* Pharisee Ribi Yehoshua. A long list of historians have documented that there was no distinct canon of defining Christian doctrine, no body of Christians and no Church until well after 135 C.E. when the gentile Roman Hellenists, having just conquered and expelled the Jews for the second time in a generation, took advantage of this expulsion to oust 15th and last Jewish Paqid of the Netzarim, Yehudah, and install in his place the first gentile and Hellenist "bishop," Markus--upon whom the Christian Church was built. Your own earliest extant Church historian documented it. The earliest Christians were gentile Hellenist Romans--the same gentile Hellenist Romans who crucified Ribi Yehoshua, destroyed the Jewish "Temple," destroyed Yerushalayim, expelled the Jews from their homeland and renamed it Aelia Palestina; enabling Arab occupiers to squat on the land and falsely claim it for themselves. THAT is your earliest Christians. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

certainly not to you, myself, or anyone else. i am exercising my rights by living here. how about you and your brazilian blood? and i personally do not care one way or the other if jews stand with christians, messianics, or whatnot. you don't have a stellar record for choosing friends/allies, so why should i care what israel does or doesn't do? become like the taliban, hizbullah, and hamas with your irrational fear of different opinions. your problem.

To Jews: Teshuvah to do your utmost to live Torah ('according to Pharisee Halakhah, as interpreted by the school of Hilleil' was implied since he was himself a Pharisee Ribi of the school of Hilleil) and to fight hypocrisy, corruption, injustice and sanctimony because the spiritual Kingdom of ha-Sheim can be realized in one's heart. The earliest extant Church historian, Eusebius, documented that his original followers, the Netzarim (Hellenized to "Nazarenes"), accepted only Hebrew Matityahu, which has been restored by today's Netzarim (see Who Are the Netzarim?; ISBN 965-7328-03-9): The Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu (NHM; ISBN 965-7328-00-4). To proselytes to Judaism: Do your utmost to learn and to live Torah as above. To other gentiles: Nothing. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

The Christian practice of attributing pre-Jewish "perfect men" and major Jewish personas as Christian isn't a surprise - Islam acts in the same manner, attributing major Jewish figures as Muslim, supposedly having held the perfect Muslim faith prior to supposed Jewish corruptions of the holy texts and faith. Both Islam and Christianity, in this sense, act as inheritor faiths - seeking to strip their precursors of any content and merit, transferring these to themselves, and thus increasing their perceptions of sole legitimacy at the cost of reducing the worth of the precursors in their eyes. So my question is - why should we, the lowly precursor faith whose sole role was to pave the way to Christ, or Mohammed, or whatever, bother taking your attempts to steal the pillars of our faith, our patriarchs and matriarchs, our prophets and judges and kings, seriously? We don't share your beliefs about our past, or about the supposed corruption of our beliefs, or about how we should have really disappeared by now to pave the way to your majestic Golden Age... We wouldn't even care about your beliefs one way or another if you didn't constantly shove them down our throats.

the problem is that if you apply that same scholarship he so loves to judaism, there is less credibility both textually and historically than christianity by far. sure, he will quote historical items favorably that support his screed, even jesus himself from the new testament, as mere uncritical cherry-picking. i'm sure he's agree that moses wrote torah, but don't ask him to refer any anachronistic oxford scholars, or even modern ones for that matter. "logic" - maybe someone can explain how he does it since we gentiles are deprived of the gentile paqid's self-important bloviations. on second thought, it'd be a waste of time to try to explain this trekkie.

To all of you who think you can be Jewish and believe in Jesus, you obviosuly have no knowledge about the Messianic movement or it's history. The Messianic movement is a very recent development. It isn't ancient and it certainly isn't an outgrowth of the Nazarenes or Ebionites of the first and second centuries C.E. This is very simple to prove. The Nazarenes and Ebionites saw themselves as the only legititimate successors to the early church. They both demanded conversion of Gentiles to Judaism and observance of mitzvot unlike the early Pauline church who allowed Gentiles to join without conversion to Judaism. The Nazarene and Ebionite communities ceased to exist in the second century due to persocution by the Gentile church and the lack of new converts. Messianic "Judaism" is a recently founded movement which branched out of the Hebrew Christian movement of the 19th century. It became strikinly more "Jewish" in the 70s and 80s in order to make Jews feel comfortable enough to convert. Messianic "Judaism" is a Christian missionary movement and not a legitimate Judaism. Jews for Jesus and the Southern Baptist Convention have the exact same theology as does the MJAA and the Missouri Synod of the Lutheran Church. Every resolution the Church passes, these Messianic "Jews" support. One more thing, to all of you whining "I thought Israel is a democratic free country!", guess what? It is! But, first and foremost, it is a Jewish country and measures to protect its Jewish status must be taken in to consideration BEFORE democratic values. Catholics, Orthodox Christians and Anglicans worship freely and happily in Israel. The difference? They aren't deceptive. They don't pretned to be Jews to win converts. These Messianic Christians MUST GO!

Inteligent beings explain what they mean,and I am asking you to explain what did you mean in your comment,since this is a forum where people expose what they think and generaly explain what they mean. Nu?Are you going to explain to all of us what do you mean in "but NO discussions about what the bible means if it differs from the rabbis. is the glass house of judaism that fragile? apparently so" Let's discuss then.Start ,please.

His christian one ! And he also dares to write : orhodox Israeli Jew . This is dishonest , and it's that that people hate : deceive people by calling yourself what you are'nt . Why don't you tell the truth , that you are not Jewish? This would make an honest person from you , and nobody could say something then .

the very fact that i explain myself is what this article is about: if a christian is a christian and tells others, say jews here in israel, that jesus is your messiah according to what the tanakh teaches, then i'm guilty of being a "missionary" and the intolerant venom, bombs, etc. jesus IS your messiah, despite what the rabbis say because the bible teaches it. messianic jews ARE jews, possessing the true faith god intended for those who receive his forgiveness and eternal life. that's the truth and i really don't concern myself with what the consensus of israelis is on the matter. so, just the fact i said this makes me hated and worthy of being bombed, just like ami ortiz. why? because this goes against the tradition of rabbinic judaism and religious as well as secular are enraged when it happens. don't believe me? just read the talkbacks.

and we'll settle it in court. Then everyone will know. You want that don't you??? Whatsa matter slanderer? Don't you want to expose the liar... or lying slanderer? Afraid to ID yourself. You're right, you'd be in jail for slander. As for the other gentile Palistan sympathizer (married to an Arab Christian), Mike, the late Oxford Professor, James Parkes, confirms my position in his dissertation, The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue, Prof. Barrie Wilson has just published a new book that gives the same essentials (How Jesus Became Christian) and Orthodox Rabbi of Jews for Judaism, R. Michael Skoback has written a book setting forth these essentials (The Da Vinci Code: A Jewish Perspective). Seems only the Arabs, Christians and homosexuals slander me. "Bar" shouldn't pretend to be so pious. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

old habits are hard to break, eh? btw, is it possible for you to be any less obscure with your claims? besides, i notice your silence on what your modern scholarship has to say about judaism. nano nano.

they, above all, criticize you, my fellow gentile.

"so, just the fact i said this makes me hated and worthy of being bombed, just like ami ortiz. why? because this goes against the tradition of rabbinic judaism and religious as well as secular are enraged when it happens. don't believe me? just read the talkbacks. " No, obviously it does not - and of course it does not justify violence. But here's the thing - regardless of what *you* believe about Jews or Jesus, what remains is that we, the vast majority of Jews for the past 2000 years, are the ones who define who gets to call himself Jewish - and we don't consider belief in Jesus as the Messiah to be Jewish. What a Christian believes on the matter is irrelevant to us - as are the contents of the so-called New Testament. We couldn't care less about Jesus or the New Testament, but it seems that some Christians are obsessed with telling us about it in some self-reaffirmation ceremony that builds personal faith upon the external effect its spread has on others. Well, we're really not interested in the efforts of an inheritor faith on its path to "dethrone" the precursor fair, claiming that our beliefs are centered around some kind of Rabbinical Plot to keep us in the dark about the True Faith - Pfeh to that. We've heard it all for the past 2000 years now, and we're sick of it - and we don't want this obsessive and calculated "soul harvest" and insults to our faith and intellect in the one country we have come to in order to avoid this crap (among other reasons). And we saw where this single-minded fanatical arrogance leads to - when we "no than you", eventually someone comes along to hit us on the head to convince us harder - and then we get forced conversion and death. Look, we don't go around to Christian houses to tell *them* how their faith is just a bunch of misguided rubbish spread by a man building a personality cult around him, right? So how about it if Christians don't go around to *our* home to tell us how much our religion is just a Talmudic Plot, eh? Thank you kindly.

That was funny. nano nano. Isn't that from Star Wars. Anyways Mike, live long and prosper :-)

I pray with Orthodox Jews every Shabbat at Beit K'nesset Moreshet Avot in Ra'anana. I've been praying there as an Orthodox Jew in good standing for more than a decade. My seat has my name on it. Check with the rabbinate and you'll find the Beit K'nesset is Orthodox and Yemenite Jews. A Palistani propagandist is trying to tell Orthodox Jews who is and isn't a Jew. That's uproarious. Anyone deceived by such a blatant propagandist and enemy of Israel and Jews deserves to be deceived. Facts mean nothing to Mustafa and slanderers (who, BTW, slander rabbis, Chief rabbis, etc. as well). But other readers may have integrity and be more discerning. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim Israeli Orthodox Jew Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews

Please do show me that you are more jewish than they are. They most probably more devoted to Al-mighty G-d than most people who call themselves "Jews" and go to a synagogue only on yom Kipur if that. I would accept a critisism of "Mesianics" from the Haredim, not from the secular. Talk is cheap, you know

maybe it was from "mork and mindy", i forget. paqid the orkan, can't you just hear him : "uproarious" - that's humor, ar ar ar.

Your hate-filled comments appall me. firstly, christianity is not a 'cult' - it is a following with 100s of millions of followers, many of whom have had personal exper. with Jesus (me included). 2ndly - as for 'pagan' - if you want to follow that 'argument' - then we can argue that there are pagan parallels in the Old Testament. As for 'goyim' - that is an offensive term. how about if i call you a 'greedy kike' then? You hate christians yet jews insist on living in christian countries. if that has been your attitude, then 'anti-semitism' is beginning to make more and more sense i'm sorry.

I guess if anyone here has a consistent perception of what it means to be a "Jew" at all. Seems nobody except those who are "like me". I am not a Jew, as far as I know, but I have learned all the time that a "Jew" is he who has a jewish mother, isn't he? Maybe even a grandmother suffices, but i am not sure. This is what the Rabbinate in Israel says. So how come there are people who are of jewish origin and have been accepted as jewish and granted citizenship by the Rabbinate and State of Israel, who serve in the army, risk the lives of their children also for you, but some of you dismiss and reject them just because they don't share YOUR special religious opinion, and they dare to use their freedom of speech and religion, whic h is a basic human right, also in Israel!, to speak about their faith, as most of you do permanently, and rightfully so. Many comments here against "messianic jews" sound like the antisemitic prejudices spread in europe for centuries against minorities, especially the "Jews", which had dramatic consequences for all of us. Beware of this! For me, from a country which has a burdened past of persecuting people for their religion and race, which I am deeply ashamed for, many comments here sound like what the HAMAS and JIHADis tell their fellows who dare to maintain "normal" relations with their jewish or christian neighbours. Its puzzling. its a pogrom atmosphere. I know that there are aggressive missionaries, who come with lot of money to Israel and try to proselytize. Most of my christian brethren would distance themselves from those. But we have learned a lot from so called "messianic Jews" about the jewish origins and foundations of our belief in Jesus, who was a jewish man and didn't hesitate to accept the title of messiah, who even confessed in the face of the High Priests to that end. Observe your religion, as you understand it (I guess as with me, also your understanding and practice will change with time, as you learn more and experience more in life), and don't fear people who do the same. Withstand those who try to press or to lure others, but compete freely by the example of your life and by the stringent explanation of G'ds words, refrain from intimidation and harassment.