Opinion
Don't pity the Palestinians
Adi Dvir
Published: 04.01.09, 02:48
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31. #12 fact-check, please!
tom ,   toronto, canada   (01.04.09)
"disproportionate force": the legal definition of allowable force is not based on the marksmanship of the criminal or how many victims he has already killed. (or how many leftists support him.) it is whatever is required to stop the threat to your life and property. hamas is still shooting 50-60 rockets a day - clearly israel has not yet used sufficient force. 40 years of occupation: from 1967 to 1987 (before the plo was allowed back into the territories at the insistence of the arab league and the united states), there was peace and prosperity, and very few terrorist attacks. israeli businesses employed workers from the territories, and tourism flowed freely across the borders. i know, because I WAS THERE. not perfect harmony, but a better life for the palestinians than the stinking refugee camps that the arab countries had built for them before the occupation, and far better than the economic wastelands of fatahland and hamastan today. apartheid: wtf? apartheid was a system of discrimination against south africa's CITIZENS. arab palestinians are FOREIGNERS under military occupation. or have you already forgotten your previous point?!! why is it "apartheid" to require hostile aliens to carry identity cards (all israelis do), and to go through security checkpoints (all israelis do), in order to prevent attacks, which are a regular feature of israeli life? what rights do you in america give to "aliens", after just one attack (9/11)? arab israelis, on the other hand, (there are almost 2 million), are not aliens and have full equal rights, and at last count, 4 political parties in the parliament. how many black or latino parties are there in your congress? and you call israel an apartheid state? dispossession of property: the arab understanding of "dispossession" is to covet what someone else owns. the british divided palestine in 1923, and "stole" 78% to create a separate state FOR THE ARABS. the arab state of palestine, which the arabs conveniently forget, is today called "jordan". but being good negotiators, they have set their sights on the remaining 22%, because that's the part the jews built into a modern country. victimizers: this is just your excuse for voicing your hatred of jews. hamas has fired 4,000 rockets aimed at israeli civilians in the three years since the last israeli left gaza. they fired 2,000 in 2008, in spite of a 6-month ceasefire. to label israel "victimizers" is just old wine in new bottles - it just makes you fell better to blame the jews. these palestinian "victims" manufactured 4,000 rockets, instead of feeding their own people. and they fired those rockets at innocent civilians (a war crime), even though israel was not attacking them in way, or even closing the border crossings (until they were fired upon). those "victims" have a charter calling for the murder of all israelis (i.e. "genocide"), and teach their children to hate and murder jews. may you have such neighbours. american aid: like most american jew-haters, you whine about american aid going to israel. but it doesn't go to just israel. far more aid goes to arab countries. (egypt alone receives almost as much, and why does saudi arabia need aid from america?) but you are also ignorant of the real beneficiaries of american aid: american industry and american workers! it's all tied to buying american products, which gives americans jobs and pays american taxes. without "aid", companies like boeing and general dynamics would go broke. the irony of your whining is that israel would enjoy a huge strategic advantage if america stopped ALL its military aid to the middle east - israel is the only country that can manufacture its own tanks, planes and warships! if anything, american aid is PREVENTING israel from competing in the arms market. pity? i pity poor fools like you, who believe all the antisemitic crap they have been fed.
32. dont pity the palestinians
debbie ,   israel   (01.04.09)
Just read in the newspaper this morning that recently Hamas people have broken the hands, and shot in the legs of Fatah activitists, so that they will be sure not to oppose Hamas in this war. Heard any outcries yet? And talkbacks condemning Hamas? Any un condemnations? Any moslem protests in the street? Anyone calling for boycotts of Arabs? Does anyone even know about this? I guess like all other moslem outrages, it will pass in silence. Imagine if Israeli soldiers did a thing like this?
33. Don't pity the Palestinians, they are on track to win.
David ,   Canberra Australia   (01.04.09)
Starved and subjugated by a bunch of DSM 4 Cluster B European immigrants (each adult Israeli being a member of the Israeli armed forces), and now stuck within a small strip of land while vast stores of American made and supplied weapons of mass destruction are pored on their heads, the Palestinian people face this onslaught with abject terror, but with resolve to fight back. What should they do - stop their resistance and vote the will of their oppressors, or vote freely for their government, people who will represent thir values and their view of history? The Lebanese were seen to win the last war incursion by Israel in 2006, maybe this will be seen as the last gasp of methane gas in the bowel of the dead cow of israeli expansionism. International Law is on Palestines side.
34. Dont use tanks to kill fly
KAZ ,   UK MANCHESTER   (01.04.09)
No comparison with Hammas guns and Israeli tanks. first give same weapon to Hammas then fight, Israel will eliminate withindays or just behave palestinian people like europeon behave to thier animals, it will bring peace in Gaza. All sensible people are with Gaza people not with israel. All world is victim of Zoinist who is responsible to crashing the ecnonomy of the world.
35. Pity for the devil?
Adrian ,   Solomon Islands   (01.04.09)
The Hamas is responsible for the current situation in Gaza. I do not pity the Hamas....may the wrath of the IDF come down upon them as a repayment for 8 years of rocket attacks against Israeli civilians and many more years of suicide bombings. The Hamas, Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Hizzbullah etc. have hijacked the Muslim faith. To the Palestinian people and Muslim moderates around the world: EJECT these demons, this satan that sits within you! Do not stand idle.
36. they elected them...they have to fact the consequences
no sympathy ,   israel   (01.04.09)
none of them are innocent in my opinion. they had the opportunity to NOT vote them into power but they DID, and now there are consequences to face. They are too afraid to stand up for themselves and bring about a revolution that will ensure the safety of their children and homes but they continue to let themselves be ruled by terrorism. They have NO ONE to blame but THEMSELVES!!! Only in ISRAEL can the muslims of Sachnin have daily protests and voice their opinion and NOT be persecuted. It's time to wake up and realize that the Muslims in Israel live BETTER, and with more rights than in any other Arab country in the WORLD. I HAVE NO SYMPATHY!!!
37. Lets be honest
Al KHITYAR ,   GAZA   (01.04.09)
Hams is there because we, the paletanians, want that, we elected hamas, we believe in hamas, most of us ARE HAMAS, this is the truth, dont pity us, we dont need it, Why Hamas? 1- They know very well the only languae you understand, FORCE 2- We tried to follow your stuped paletinian - modorate- followers, for 20 years of dif talks with you, NO RESULTS .... Madrid,Oslo,Camp David, Sharm al Shaick, Anapolice,,,,,,Road show ( map),,,,, THEN? 3- We wanted to take our case in our hands, we need the only powerfull supporter, God 4- We know its a long tough way, BUT IT IS THE ONLY FRUITFUL WAY 5- We also know very well that YOU will suffer like us,,, We believe that we can sacrefy to loose 10 wares, but for you its only once,,,, you loose , you are gone, finished, no more,,, and it will come,,, we are soooooooo patient,,,,
38. response to 37
no sympathy ,   israel   (01.04.09)
If this is how you feel then you deserve everything you get. HAMAS is not a government – it is a TERRORIST organization. And in case you haven't noticed, the WORLD is on a mission to eliminate terrorist organizations – yours gets no special treatment. Are you so ignorant to realize that when there is calm and a ceasefire the borders are open, more money and supplies come in, your children are safer and you don't have any military operations??? It was YOUR 'leaders' decision not to continue the ceasefire. and you began firing missiles at Israel - but you don't want a response. No ceasefire means no ceasefire and that works BOTH WAYS. Did you erase from your memory that we forced our OWN citizens to destroy their homes and livelihoods and relocate from Gaza only to be taken advantage of once again and give you a closer range to fire rockets on Israel. When you fire against us we have no reason and you and no justification to demand we open borders or give any 'extras'. You are getting aid from Israel (what other country will provide aid to the same terrorists trying to destroy them..) and from many other countries year round only your 'leaders' keep the money for themselves and keep you in poverty brainwashing you that Israel is to blame. Wake up and see the reality you live in. I think we should build luxury beachfront condos for all those Israeli residents evacuated from their homes. (which obviously was a mistake)
39. To number 3 and all the others...
Reasonable man   (01.04.09)
You and your fellows keep ignoring the fact that Hamas is aggressive to Israel. Hamas is attacking civilians everyday. above 1 million israelis don't have normal lives either. but why don't you state your opinion about this fact? because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Your excuse for saying that the civilians in Gaza suffer, is only in order to give legitimacy to the Hamas aggressive, this is your only purpose. So please, don't play games with us, we have learned on our people's blood that you are beasts.
40. Very important principle!
Rina   (01.04.09)
Israelis fight out of love for their people, not out of hate for the enemy.
41. very funny
Bassam ,   Saudi   (01.04.09)
If this is the case, then the Americans should be responsible of all deaths in Iraq as Bush admitted that the infos on WMD are false!! Should they be killed too? should the wolrd launch a war againts US?! come on... grow up...
42. THERE IS NO OCCUPATION OF GAZA!
Dan ,   USA   (01.04.09)
Israel has not occupied Gaza in 3 years!! I repeat there is no occupation in Gaza!! People need to understand that the word "occupation" is a made up word used constantly by Hamas to fool dumb liberals into thinking they are some kind of victim. Yes, there are some settlements in the West Bank. But the West Bank is not fighting Israel! Hamas is lying and the world doesn't care!
43. #33 international law?
tom ,   toronto, canada   (01.04.09)
international law? as imagined by hamas, or as portrayed by palliwood, perhaps? dhimmitude is not enshrined in international law just yet. "genocide" is still illegal, even though the destruction of israel and killing of all the jews is part of the hamas charter (because it is central to radical isalmic belief) and hamas refuses to remove it. the deliberate targeting of civilians, as hamas has done, is a war crime, and illegal under international law. (it may even be a crime under sharia law, but hamas doesn't seem to mind this one.) locating your military facilities in the midst of civilian populations is a war crime, and makes it hamas' responsibility, under international law, for the resulting civilian casualties. hiding behind civilians even if they "volunteer", is a crime. (islam doesn't allow this either.) under the geneva conventions, hamas is also required to provide red cross access to prisoners - it is a war crime to prevent inspections, as they have done to gilad shalit, and it is also illegal to use prisoners for propaganda purposes, as they have done, and to threaten to execute them, and so on... israel has the right to self-defence under international law. and it has the right to use force to stop the aggression (hamas has not stopped firing in spite of everything) and to deter future aggression. killing enemy combatants is not illegal, nor are you required to maintain some sort of crazy "balanced body-count". (here's where sharia really differs - it is a "humiliation" for infidels to surpass believers at anything. dhimmis have no right to self-defence. the infidels must die.) israel is not required to warn civilians of its attacks (that should be hamas' responsibility). and hamas, not israel, are responsible for civilian casualties (100 so far, according to the un, the rest are all fighters), because of the location of their installations. and israel is not required to respect mosques that are being used to store explosives. what does international law have to say about this on YOUR planet?
44. #34 "KAZ"
tom ,   toronto, canada   (01.04.09)
i think you are slightly misinformed on a few issues. first, hamas declared war on israel. not because israel is on hamas' land (the last israeli left gaza three years ago), but because they believe the koran commands them to kill the jews. and in three years, they have shot over 4,000 rockets at innocent israeli civilians. you may think that it's okay to kill "zionists" or "jews", but the civilized world calls that a war crime. war is not like television, or like rugby. it's about killing the other guy before he kills you. and hamas has been preaching hatred and murder, even to their schoolchildren, for generations. if your neighbour started shooting at you, every day, for three years, would you wait to defend yourself until he killed a few people? that would only be fair. or would you get him a bigger gun, so that you could be more evenly matched? or are you just venting your antisemitism, because jews (and other dhimmis) should not be allowed to defeat moslems? has it ever occurred to you that if the infidels succeed, then maybe it is because you are doing evil, and even your god is against you? "sensible people", as you put it, understand a little bit more about the economy, and realize that it crashed because millions of people bought homes with money that they didn't have. only "idiots like you" cling to conspiracy theories and antisemitic canards about how the jews control everything. scapegoating keeps your mind, and your society, from dealing with reality. hamas started the war, and israel is likely to finish it for them. if you feel the need to join in, i think "heroic" hamas is looking for more human shields.
45. Pity
Talula ,   Israel   (01.04.09)
I don't pity them, I feel sorry for those that put an X on the ballot paper that was not next to Hamas. The ones that voted for Hamas, actually voted for this - they indirectly voted for the death of Palestinians who thought they could take on Israel. They were wearing rose colour glasses, issued by Hamas. They were fooled then and are being fooled now. Most people learn from their own personal mistakes in life - the mistake for voting Hamas is one that many will probably not live to correct. They made a choice, now they have to suffer the consequences of that choice. I feel sad for the children, the innocent ones that have not been brainwashed, and I feel sad for the average Palestinian family man who just wants to work and live in peace. But I'm not sure there are any.
46. we will survive
Sam ,   Palestine   (01.04.09)
you are a foriegn body, look at your faces people, you dont resemble any in the reigon, go back to your countries... russian , polish, and africans....
47. To #37 lets be honest
Ze'ev ,   Haifa   (01.04.09)
Gaza is no existential danger to Israel. If it were the 1.4 millions would run to Egypt as your brothers did in 1948 to escape the carpet bombing. Think about it!
48. don' pity the Pal-s
Eugene ,   Germany   (01.04.09)
A very good, sane material. What is positive for Israel, the international understanding of the reasons, which led to the operation min Gaza, and of Israeli motives to complete the op successfully, has been growing worldwide, even in such countries as Russia, who had not been supportive of Israel in the past. I feel the world is fed up with the existance of the handful of blood-thisty fanatics, who prove to be cowards in real fighting and, while sending others to die, themselves are not going to part with their lives at all! Israel, see the thing through, the truth is on Your side!!!
49. Hamas Manifesto
Nik ,   London   (01.04.09)
Vote for us: We have no idea how to run a country and none of our members have ever been to school. We wil bring you 3 years of poverty, starvation, power cuts and 90% unemployment. We will never recognise the country which could help you live prosporously but instead we will send homemade rockets which will terrorize innocent civillians who have done nothing to us. And when the biggest millitary might of the middle East has finally had a gutful of these rockets hopefully they will unleash deadly airstrikes and hundreds of you will die, thousands maimed. After all this you wil still support us as none of you are clever enough to realise why things are so bad. If you thrive on misery and crying to the world for sympathy and then we are the party for you!
50. To # 3
Lioness ,   Israel   (01.04.09)
Is it only ethical to kill Jewish children and Jewish civilians with rockets from Gaza which has gone on for the last eight years? Is it only ethical to send sucide bombers to kill Jewsh people in shopping malls, cafe, pizza bars and bus stops? Hamas and the Palestinians who voted for them have asked for this Israeli retaliation. They can go and hide in one of the many bunkers that their leaders have built for their protection and to hide the katusha rockets from Iran. Oh I forgot all the money that the EU, USA and Russia have given to the Gazans was spent on bunker making and buying rockets and explosives. Try and eat your rockets.
51. Ignorance-
ann ,   tel aviv   (01.04.09)
Great article and refreshing perspective. Palestinians, pre-hamas, received the MOST financial aid per capitia of any refugees, anywhere in the world, including Africa. What do they have to show for this? Poverty, lack of basic utilities, staggering rates of unemployment, lack of health care, etc...... Clearly, Palestinians have lacked dignified leadership for decades. Their leadership has always been self-interested, too tied up in the hatred and contempt of the "Zionists" to focus on building a functional economic and social infrastructure and hence, a better life for their citizens. With the take over of hamas, this has all gotten worse. Hamas' platform is fundamentally based on the destruction of Israel, not the salvation or protection of citizens of Gaza Sullivan USA, as a gay man, you should be a great protector of democracy, normalization, and freedom. You would be killed if you dared to live as openly gay in Gaza and most regions in the Middle East! As an American citizen, whose country fights proxy wars, you have no right to judge Israel. Israel is a SOVEREIGN country with the RIGHT to defend herself and her citizens from a daily bombardment (note spelling) of Iranian made missiles, sent over from Gaza. It's time for the world to stop judging Israel and begin to investigate the true nature and threat of terror brewing in the Gaza strip.
52. For real?
danny ,   Italy   (01.04.09)
Hamas has broken through the IDF communication devices and they state that the IDF is concealing losses
53. Excellent but tell this to CNN, SkyNews and the BBC!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (01.04.09)
Again, as in virtually every conflict with the Arabs we lose the "Propaganda War". Many maintain that we have failed to put our side of the story in other languages. Israel Channel 33, which is an established satellite TV channel, could be used as our answer to Al Jezeera and the anti-Israel Western media. However, you can take our point of view to the TV screens but you cannot make people watch our TV. The only way is for Jewish leaders in the Diaspora to get of their butts and use their clout to bring CNN, FOXNews, SkyNews, France 24, the BBC and the others to a stage where they examine the Arab propaganda before the broadcast it. A good example was the manipulated videos of the hundreds killed in the 2nd Lebanon War which were broadcast, caused huge damage to Israel, and then Reuters admitted that the videos were fabricated. Money talks! This morning CNN treated us to a scene in a hospital in Gaza where a young boy is lying on the ground with no visible signs of injuries. Suddenly a doctor appears and started applying half-hearted CPR obviously because the TV cameras were turned on. No other medical personnel were present, no air bag for resuscitation, no intubation, no IV, just one man in a doctor's coat! That is what the world sees and until Mayor Blumberg and the other Jewish leaders in the USA do their thing, we cannot win in the eyes of the world. As for the UK Jews, well they just seem to bury their heads in the sand while Prime Minster Brown and his puppy Milleband condemn us. They still have that Holocaust mentality of "don't annoy the Goyim"! When Jews are in distress we send help, supplies, rescue teams and El Al Airliners. When Israel is in distress they turn and look after themselves. I am sure this view will not be popular but prove me wrong!
54. #46 Yes, Israel will survive
Menachem ,   Israel   (01.04.09)
Your "Palestine" is nothing else than a land theft and Arab neo-colonialism who by the way are more mixed than most people in the region. The reestablishment of the ancestral Jewish homeland is permanent and neither you or any other pathetic Jew-hater can do anything about it.
55. Adi Dvir's error
Steve   (01.04.09)
This piece has much to commend it. Did the Allies pity German civilians as they deliberately firebomed Hamburg, Dresden, Dusseldorf, Berlin and other German civilian targets? No. The Allies knew the German people supported the war effort just as the Palestinain people support their leader's war effort against the Jews. The error in this piece in my view? Even should the Palestinian Muslim Arabs all become saints, they do not deserve a state in the land of Israel. The land of Israel belongs to the Jews. Period!
56. Makes a change from whining Israelis
Chanalau, Tova ,   London, UK   (01.04.09)
Hopefully the EU will suspend agreements with Israel; for good.
57. Are you sure that you are a human being?
Maria ,   UK   (01.04.09)
If Killing and injuring more than 3000people isn't something we should pity in your opinion, then I am 100% sure that are not a human being.
58. No one ever pittied the Jews. That's why we are strong today
Thanks   (01.04.09)
Keep up the hatred towards Israel, keep pitying the Palestinians, and keep giving them more and more money, that'll sure get them on their feet, won't it Europe? Keep bashing Israel, we are strong and resilient and can take it. Pals, no, they are weak and needy and pathetic. Poor poor poor little things. No one is more poor than them on the face of the earth. It is because of this attitude that they are where they are today. No one expects anything from them, Just give, give, give and pity them. Is that good education? They will never be able to run a country because that's too hard and has too many responsibilities. They are poor little things so they can't do it. And if anyone says it's because of the occupation, I ask is there Israeli occupation in Jordan or Egypt? so why are their economies in shambles? No road blocks no Idf, just arabs. So stop blaming Israel for arabs faliures. They need to take a hard and uncomfortable look at themselves.
59. Were the jews whining about the holocaust?
ihab ,   Lebanon   (01.04.09)
It is amazing how bold this author is. Anyway, people like him constitue the biggest motivations for the arab resistants. Israel is massacring the palestinians. It is not for the author to tell the arabs what to do. It is his opinion. having said that, when the jews vopiced out the massacres of the holocaust, were they whining? should not have the world pity them? They were subject to ferocious treatment, so, we should blame them for not fighting and defeating Hitler on their own? if the allies did not join forces, could the holocaust have ended? Adi Dvir, your pity was never sollicited, and times have proved that our way out is simply to rely on ourselves and our weapons and our will. Times are changing, and the Arab masses are undeerstanding further the nature of Israel. Sayyed Hassan is the product of your oppression, and Hamas is also so. Your deterrrent forces got a big slap in Lebanon. In a week i will be back to this site and let us see what will hapen. the so called political objective is to stop the rockets. the rockets will not stop, may be further civilians would die, but one thing is usre. The army would retreat. Those who have nothing to lose are the most dangerous to face. think about it....
60. As a gay Irish Catholic...
David   (01.04.09)
Dear Yaakov, If you and your partner were in Gaza, you would be thrown from the nearest high rise building or your throats would be slit. You wouldn't fare any better in Iran or most other Muslim countries. In Tel Aviv you would be treated as any other person. Don't you think that says something about the overall tolerance of the societies? The reason we are having one war after another is not because Israel does or doesn't do something, but because of Arab intolerance toward Jews.
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