You are an HYPOCRIT for making us believe you are a TRUE secular!YOU ARE NOT A ******TRUE******* SECULAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A TRUE secular does not have a kosher kitchen by ANY means.A TRUE secular does not have relatives nor friends who are shomer shabat.A TRUE secular have only secular friends and teach their children to follow their tradition by keeping being SECULARS;TRUE,GENUINE SECULARS!!! You are not a TRUE secular at all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You have been cheating us all this time making us believe you are a TRUE one.YOU ARE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No thanks! I've realized that as the descendant of an Orthodox convert, I may not be accepted as a Jew in Israel. Too bad because I was thinking about making Aliya. I've realized how much better things are here in the Diaspora and that's where I plan on staying. I don't need the abuse of being treated as a second class Jew or being called a goy.

let me understand .times have changed ,so we must change halacha (in this case annul conversions). WHEN DID Rabbi Metzger BECOME A CONSERVATIVE JEW

One mitzva can always call a second one...

Charles and Keren, In my opinion, based on what I know about both of you, you are both very Jewish Jews who both cherish their being Jewish. Neither of you is perfect and neither am I. We should strive to be perfect, but we aren't. Just respect each other. I think the two of you are very much alike. You are both not fully religious (Keren more, Charles less) but you are both completely committed to being a Jew. I have seen that from Charles in his discussions with Paqid, I have seen it from Keren many other times. Find some common ground and let's all be happy together! You are both real and true Masoratim, face it. I greatly respect both of you for your opinions and for who you are, based on what I know about you from what you write here. Good night now - it's 3 AM.

Charles is *NOT* a********TRUE********secular!!!!!!!! :-)

back what He has graciously bestowed, the gift of saving faith. It is true, a person can surrender eternal salvation like Moses told God he would do if God slayed the Hebrews who came out of Egypt long ago. One can lose one's salvation and/or rewards in heaven for blasphemy, the unpardonable sin. But once the seed of faith is within one, the only thing it can do is to live which leads to heaven...or die, which leads to hell. Can the seed of faith die and still be in a person? Yes, sadly, since faith without works is dead, being alone. Faith that does not provide for one's own is denying the faith which renders the seed of faith dead instead of living. But it is not Rabbis who determine if the seed of faith is dead or living: it is the Lord who determines that. Imagine Boaz marrying Ruth and then the Rabbis telling them Ruth's conversion was annuled or voided. Imagine Rahab who helped Joshua's army being told her faith was voided by a Cohanen. Imagine such nonsense it you will, Rabbi Metzger, but you are not God and cannot make that determination. Only God and the angels know for certain who has a living seed of faith and who does not.

You will see how he hates God because of the holocaust since he cannot see the connection between the sacrifices of those precious souls and the re-establishment of the State of Israel, a miracle brought about by such great sorrow one cannot imagine. When there was a slaughter Hebrew male babies in ancient Egypt, it was a prelude to the Lord leading hHs people out of Egypt and into the Promised Land. When there was a slaughter in Germany and Europe, it was a prelude to the Lord leading His people out of Europe and into the Promised Land. God only allows so much to happen to His Jews before He takes them to a better place. That does not happen often, but when it does it is the mighty hand of God that brings them home.

Annulment or Ex-communication? Israel or Iran? Islamic Fundamentalism and Haredism are the same! This is another reason that we MUST have civil marriage and Lieberman must be called to account for his betrayal of his people!

Charles - every day I like you more! Keren - as a J for J I wish you would disappear - you seem to either have a peculiar imagination or a totally perverted past. Re conversions - from what I understand, its not the ones who are true converts who need to be concerned. In my experience, they dislike the phony converts more than anyone else. Imagine the situation - I had a friend many years ago who converted outside of Israel, totally fooling the Beth Din. She then drove (on Friday night) up to her Mother's in the north of the country, and the following day - Shabbat, went out for lunch and shopping; where she ate a totaly treife meal. How do I know - because she told me and added that - "now I can be myself". Sorry - but the way I see it - if she wasn't sincere - neither her, nor her kids are Jewish.

A modern country needs and demands modern rabbis. Rabbis who encourage us non-ultras to serve in the army and to obtain an education that will allow us to support our families in a modern world. A 95 plus year old head honcho of the ultras forced Metzger (a non entity in the national religious society) upon us in order to force us to live according to his rules.. Perhaps we need two separate religious courts to ensure that all s treams of society will be able to live under Jjewish law.

Why can a secular not have "shomre Shabbat" family members ? You would reject them !!! I'm more open minded , i can have "shomre Shabbat" friends too , and had even Charidi friends when i lived abroad . There my kitchen was'nt kosher . I"m not hatefull as you are , i accept that people have other ideas , and respect them if they are sincere . You would reject all those who do not share your "beliefs" ! [ beliefs ? by writing Shabbat ]

But not religious at all , even with my Kosher kitchen . A Beth Knesseth is far from being my favorite place , i'm there only for very special occasions . The last time for the Bar Mitzwa of my Grand sons , and before this for the Shabbat Kalah of their mother . Regarding my discussions with this paqid , i hate fake people and missionaries . But i don't hate people who don't share my ideas if they don't try to impose their lifestyle on me . I can't be happy with hatefull people , this Keren is one of them .

Or do i again have to enumerate all your "blessings" ? beginning with your CRIPPLED brains , your pets , ,and so on .

I too knew a convert , an Orthodox one , who later became Gabbai of his Synagogue . He was a follower of the Jewish faith , 100 % . But he had'nt this Jewish feeling , he had very different reactions in our day to day discussions . To become Jewish you need some generations , a conversion certificate , even a 100 % kosher one , is not enough .

As i wrote , my kitchen is Kosher , not out of religiosuty , but to allow me to receive family and friends , who can all eat at my home . I'm open minded , respect TRUE believers , and they respect me . What i dislike are fake , deceiving people , people who try to impose their way of life and of course hatefull ones . Why did your friend convert ? To get married ? I know such a couple . He a very assimilated Jew , and she a "convert" by a very "liberal" "rabbi" , They live as non Jews , no Jewish education for their children who married non Jews ......

"One of the most important participants was one who did not show up: Sephardi Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar received an invitation to attend the conference, but it was clear to the organizers he would boycott the event this time, as he would be the target, whether implied or out in the open, of much criticism. All the main speakers came out strongly against the official government stance on conversions, and a few even personally attacked the most respected halakhic authority supporting the conversion programs, Rabbi Amar." "Who did appear was Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi Yona Metzger, who showered compliments on his hosts in general and on Rabbi Sherman in particular. He called Sherman a "man of truth, God-fearing," and expressed his support for Sherman and his views. However, Metzger's office denied yesterday that his praise related to the ruling invalidating the conversions by Rabbi Druckman's courts." "Religious-Zionist circles demanded Metzger's resignation yesterday in response to his statements, including MK Uri Orbach (Habayit Hayehudi)." Apparently contradicting himself after throwing out "thousands" of conversions unexamined, ""Every convert needs to be examined," Sherman said." Ashkenazim again slander Sepharadim. (Don't even think about the tiny minority of Teimanim--the most pristine reflection of the Bible, Mosheh, Har Sinai and the Rambam--that haven't merited any consideration.) Of course, over all of these, Charles the atheist Edomite is the Jewish pope, dismissing Orthodox documentation (available on my website) to hold court over his Christian and homosexual priesthood. It's long overdue for Jews to reject the Christian gospel that has cloaked the first-century Pharisee Ribi in begadim tzoim (Zekharyah 3.1-5). But Charles, "Dacon" and their fellow hate-mongers continue to propagate this perverted Christian gospel as if it were a central tenet of Judaism; and to smear false slanders at those who disprove Christianity. Nothing is more asinine than calling those who disprove Christianity "Christian missionaries." They cannot disprove what I write from quotations so they have no recourse except to resort to deliberate misquotes, outright lies and boundless slander to build a strawman they can attack. Their strawman is not me. The rabbis and my Orthodox friends all know that. Those outside of the b'rit Torah (not merely the b'rit milah) can't deal with the message so they attack the messenger. The more I see the no-limits feud between Ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox, and between Ashkenazi and Sepharadi, I think we need to emphasize "Torah Jews" more than "Orthodox Jews." That also firmly entrenches the b'rit Torah, not those who would spill our blood or the Esaus and Qorakhs in our midst, as the definer of Israel and Jews. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai) Advocate for Logic as Halakhic Authority Welcoming Jews & non-Jews www.netzarim.co.il

For the sake of argument, let us suppose that the chief ayatollah of Iran made the same statement regarding Ahmadinejad. Would that be less threatening, less divisive to the masses of Iranian rallying in the streets of Teheran against the radical president of the republic? Sherman circumvented authority in his guerilla attack on the conversion court president, Rabbi Druckman. He and his two cohorts acted illegally, abused the trust of the secular state which, for crass political motives allows to function and pays the salaries of this institution. The decision of then prime minister Olmert to cave to haredi pressure and legitimize the Sherman coup (Rabbi Druckman was at retirement age; as if that was reasonable since at the time he was asked to stay on he was already beyond that age) was perhaps politically expedient; it was also the most recent example of deligitimizing the secular character of the state, a betrayal of Diaspora Jewry who see themselves increasingly marginalized by a state of the Jews turned Jewish State. The more the State of Israel becomes identified with one branch of Judaism, the more it grows distant not just from the Jewish people, but a betrayal of its Zionist purpose, its reason for being. Israel was never intended to be a state of the Israelis but a refuge for the people. With all due respect, rabbis Metzger, Sherman, et al do not have the best interests of the Jewish people at heart, merely their own self-interest as guardians of their true faith. That is anti-Zionism.

A basic tenet of law in a democracy is no ex post facto law, that is to say you cannot make retroactive laws & rules. Not to mention the untold injury and human suffering this edict forces on people. I believe an extensive study of halachic literature and rulings will show it is not permitted to annul a conversion. This looks like a show of “who’s the boss”

Ex-post facto law is not the correct analogy, since the people who undergo conversion know in advance that their conversion will be judged by a Torah standard which has not changed in thousands of years. The correct analogy is to compare the invalidation of conversions in Judaism to the invalidation of agreements in contract law: 1. In contract law, fraud in the inception of a contract voids the agreement. In Judaism, if the person who underwent conversion never had the intention of fulfilling the terms of the conversion (i.e. observing the full Torah), then his conversion is fraudulent. Since we can never know a person's heart, this can be determined by post-conversion performance of fulfilling the full Torah in the period immediately after the conversion. 2. In contract law, another reason a contract can be voided is for procedural errors. In Judaism, if the witnesses in the conversion were not competent or if the person who underwent the conversion was not asked if he/she would observe the full Torah, then the conversion is invalid. You may ask, "What about the human element?" What if a person really in his heart believes he/she is Jewish and fulfills the full Torah. Here is a brillant analogy gleaned from the website BeingJewish.com: "Imagine that there was a member of the Iraqi underground (if there had been such a thing). He lives in Iraq, but he always resented Saddam Hussein. He considered and considers himself an American at heart. He fought valiantly against the Iraqi army on behalf of the United States. He planted American flags at every place he conquers. He dispersed tracts about the American form of government throughout Iraq. "One day, after the war ends, and he takes an aiplane flight to America. He arrives triumphantly on the shores of the U.S., and loudly demands to be given a mansion and free room and board, like any good American. "Understandably, people try to put some water on his fire. There is no mansion waiting for him, despite whatever he was told about Americans. He is also told that he is not yet a citizen. He must first fill out the forms, he must wait on line, he must get approved and accepted, he must swear or affirm an oath, he must actually find a job, and he must -- gasp -- pay taxes! " 'But how can you do this to me?!' he shouts. 'I am an American war hero! I am a citizen! It is my right! I have killed and put my life in danger for this country! How dare you tell me I have no right to call myself an American! And pay taxes? It's an outrage!' "There can be little doubt of his sincerity. There can be no doubt of his desire to be an American, under HIS terms. But regardless of his sincerity, he has to follow the rules. If he does not file the forms, or take the oath, he cannot become an American citizen, regardless of his sincerity. "And if he refuses to pay taxes, he just might go to jail, or even get deported, regardless of his heroism. "The American ideal involves all the more difficult aspects of American life as well as the supposed freedom and liberty it touts. We must pay taxes, to keep the government we consider the bastion of freedom. We must keep within the speed limits when driving, because that is the price of republican government. And so on and so forth. "Above all, we must work for a living, because the American dream does not mean being supported by the government, but striking it rich through hard work and ingenuity. "Judaism has its rules as well. Not everyone who wants to be called Jewish is automatically called Jewish, just because s/he 'feels Jewish.' They might even be a true hero -- for which they are guaranteed to be rewarded -- but they are not Jewish if they do not follow the procedure. And they are not exempt from obeying the Laws, regardless of their war record. They may be righteous Gentiles, and they may even be more righteous than some Jews, but that does not make them Jews. (Nor does it make them lesser people in any way.)"

Who had always his Yeshua in his mouth ? You . Who can't give any name of an TRUE Orthodox Rabbi who confirms your "conversion" ? You . Who was deceiving people by his heading "ministry of Absorption" omn his website ? You . Who told that the Then head Rabbi send him his blessings , while it was a polite formula of his secretaqry ? You . All this is TRUE . And then you call a TRUE Jews as i am , Edomite or by other names ? As the deceiving guy # 1 , not a wonder that you dare . But we all know that you are a Christian missionary . And you can have a seat at a Synagogue , i also can buy one if i want .

answer the longstanding questions of who the prominent/reputable jewish leader(s) who endorse your teachings. simple. avoiding the question and playing the martyr is stale because victimhood is a loser's position to take. it's a free country, though, and you are free to choose to be a loser.

Is it possible for Judaism to sink any lower? I’m not sure which is more despicable: The fact that a rabbinic judge can call into question thousands of conversions with a casual wave of his hand, or The fact that so many eminent “Torah Sages” and other lesser mortals leap to his defence on the national stage, and in feedback forums such as this.

So the conversion is invalidated...that does not mean that one cannot become Jewish. People who really want to become Jewish become Jewish no matter the obstacles. I'm sure it's shocking, it's ok to be upset about it too... Perhaps instead of fighting about it, find out what one needs to do to. It might just be a lot easier that you thought. Life if full of challenges, you know that. This is just one of them, and thank G-d it's not about your health!

Maybe some insults , nothing more i think . Have you noticed ? he is an "advocate" now . As he changes some things , maybe that one day he become an honest person ? Who knows ?

Shalom has disclosed it : you are a J for j . Probably that i did'nt read all your tb's , not interesting enough . Well if it's so i understand a little bit more . A poor favella inhabitant that was brainwashed , given some hatefull ideas and send to Israel to spread this perverted belief here .

The real problem is that the Rabbis would like to close the doors to conversion because their racist, self-righteous attitude about their own lineage and halacha has deluded them to the point of no return. Luckily, time is on our side. They are slowly making themselves irrelevant by appealing to the fringe.

with all of the "logic" talk paqid does, it sure seems to shut him up when it comes to simple facts about his alleged identity. he freely bloviates his unsolicited opinions, but when there are direct questions about this credibility, he goes silent. his silence speaks volumes. and notice how he gives himself all those titles (advocate, jew, orthodox, whatever). he can do whatever he wants but notice that no one else does. only silence. that silence also speaks volumes.

my feelings were hurt because paqid didn't mention me as one of those who makes fun of him. i'm feeling neglected and left out.