Short of the extremes of enforcement, something about this article sounds like a Jewish version of Das Gesetz zum Schutz des Deutschen Blutes of 1935. Regardless as to which side of the family it applied, if there was a Jew anywhere in your present or past - whether documented or sometimes only rumored - it was off to some “Arbeit Macht Frei” camp, unless, of course, somebody found it expedient to “aryanize” you, or you managed to run or hide long enough. I’m simply happy to be the offspring of a long line of reasonably decent human beings, whose religions, ethnic backgrounds, and countries of origin really don’t matter. Looking around my bunch, inbreeding has definitely not been an issue. I’ve been called everything from Nazi to Jesus Killer, with amusing variations on both themes. Rather than get upset, I just smile and remember what my mother drilled into my head so long ago, albeit in German and without me knowing its exact meaning until much later: “Until they stand you against the wall and shoot you, what others think, say, and do has no bearing on what and who you know you are.” Just in case circumcision is proof that someone is Jewish, I have to call my son immediately, tell him to pack up his sons, make sure everybody’s wearing clean underwear, head for the nearest synagogue and have that situation clarified Heaven forbid #1 son should miss Judaism as another religion du jour with which he'd be bored by next year! Not only that, but OMG, I was married to a Jew all these years, and didn’t know it. No wonder he was such a lousy Baptist. Not only did he like to dance, but he would, also, drink beer now and then; both "sins" a definite express ticket to Baptist hell. Maybe his penchant for those ridiculous baseball caps was really a hidden desire to sport kippot…… In my opinion and except as it relates to citizenship, being born Jewish is no more “special” and something one has earned than being born any other way. Let me see how you live your life and how you treat your fellow human beings and I'll tell you whether or not I consider you special. I always thought that marriage was a solemn promise of two people to each other, witnessed by a couple of other people for the sake of temporal bureaucracy. Oh, it's a good excuse, too, to really dress up, for throwing great parties, for dancing like demented dorks, for collecting start-up funds, kitchen appliances, and high-priced china. Why let religions put the kibosh on all of that?

1. the guy is not an Israeli citizen he is a resident. 2. they planned the wedding only 2 weeks ago! and they are getting married at the rabbinuit = no money was invested in this for halls or bands or meals or photograopher. 3. the girl is 10 years older than the guy. 4. there is no proof he is Jewish except his undocumented claim he studied at some Chabad school in Russia no one can find. It is really easy to locate people in Chabad, they are quite organized. He cannot find them because he doesnt want to find them o because they will say they let anyone claiming to be a Jew attend. 5. the Israeli Rabbinical officials who are charged under Israeli law to verify these matters concluded he presented fraudulent records. That is Israeli law - deal with it. 6. he and his "besheret" should be arrested for perpetrating a fraud and trying to pollute the Jewish gene pool.

they try to figuer out something that have logic, very hard for them to figuer, you can hear the wheels in their brain cricking and much like a sound of broken cofee machin the blur out nonsense.

Birdi, I understand this and I know about it- my question was: what do people do who lost all the papers (WWII for instance) ? Are they still not accepted as Jews? They practice their religion, they believe etc... and they are OUTCASTS? Sounds rather cruel to me. I know there are rules, but to shun people, make them 'persona non grata' even thought they WANT to be Jewish..?????. Charles: yes there have to be rules...and there is no talk about the MOTHER of this young man- all they do is talk about his father? in this article there are many tentative expressions, the papers 'might be forged'. So what happens to the couple now? They will live in sin- is that better in the rabbi's mind? They are going to get married in a civil marriage, their children will be outcasts... does anyone expect these two young people to have positive feelings for the Jewish religion and the Rabbinate? They have practically been rejected- they are nothing. Instead of encouraging people to be practicing Jews and part of the community, when reading the recent articles on annulled conversions, and now this- I am seriously wondering about the longterm survival of Judaism- a few thousand orthodox and ultra-orthodox people, and a few million non-practicing Israeli citizens- ? Looks pretty touch and go to me....

They should do a DNA test if they are so sure and if he is not adopted the Rabbinate should foot the bill and pay for a wedding for them.

Once upon a time there lived a talented jewish boy called Moishe. He was very popular among his peers. Some even say that if the Lord were to chose one person to give His commandments to, it would be this boy. Some even whispered that his destiny is to lead the jews from Egyptian slavery and into the Promised Land. But he threw it all away by marrying a non-Jewish medianite girl. He was ostracized and cast out of the jewish community. His unforgivable crime of polluting the Jewish gene pool outweighed any good deeds he might have achieved. Good jews still spit when they hear somebody mention his name and only bad Jews like me for some weird reason call him Moshe Rabeynu...

Living in "sin" ? i don't think that living together without the rabbinicall autorisation is sin . Problem for their children ? i don't think it , the mother is Jewish . If the birth certificate is forged , it's very possible that he had'nt a Jewish mother , so not Jewish . Regarding the future . I'm secular , my sisters are , but all our children had an Orthodox wedding , we have 100 % Jewish grandchildren , so don't warry , there are many so . Your Obsession with Jewish and Israeli problems ......And please , hold your christian discussions with this rivka for a christian site

The only threat to the Jewish people is the Rabbies, it's time for a house cleaning , out with the Rabbi mumsers

I agree with #64, Mighty Moe. Many people here have false papers, especially from the FSU. Better to be careful now, than sorry later on.

I am not obsessed with Jewish anything, problems or otherwise- I simply want to know- and some of the arguments here are definitely not rational- and just countering with accusations of anti-semitism does not answer a question- it just stops the conversation- because the person does not want to admit they don't know? re Christian discussions- ? I noticed many of the TBs have not the faintest idea what they are talking about when they mention anything Christian. They heard or read something and they quote- wrong most of the time- but acording to them it is the truth and nothing but.... a bit of understanding about what the other person's religion is about would go a long way towards world peace. The Pope's visit was a prime example- there was so much wrong and hateful TBs- what exactly did it achieve? Most persecutions in the past were about intolerance andignorance- not knowing and understanding - do we want to keep on making the same mistakes?

We all have to know something about other people , SOMETHING . But , to discuss every theme becomes an "insane" curiosity . At least you , contrary to others , are not promoting your [ non ] belief . This rivkah does it , and others too . Those discussions here areonly "details" of the Jewish religion . The base is : love your neighboor as yoursel" , all the rest are only comments a Great Jewish Sage said . PS : to tell that tb's were not published is a lie . When i have such a case , i write a second , 3td . [ for what this rivka said ]

I never, ever promote my own believes- at the most I add something more personal to explain a point- the readers are free to take it or leave it. Maybe I do have an 'insane' curiosity- to know things, to learn- you are right, LOL. it would be nice if or people in the world had this curiosity instead of repeating everything they see and hear...

While I am for the freedom of being allowed to marry in a civil ceremony - as one wishes -, in Israel, if you want to be married by the rabbinate you must be Jewish and be able to prove it. Simple. This story does not add up. The emphasis on the father when Jewish law only cares about the mother in this regard. The details #64 provides further says something is a miss. By all means marry if you will, they can go to Prague, or wherever, it would still be legal but marrying through the rabbinate requires documentation of Jewishness for everyone, not just them. They did not need to go this route.

Resident , age and so .

Do you have other interests too ? or only Israel and Judaism ? I wrote that you , CONTRARY to others , DON'T promote your [ non ] belief .

I understood what you wrote- thank you for the compliment..... I like to think it was, LOL. I do have OTHER INTERESTS...in case you are thinking I am the obsessive kind... LOL.. Photography, politics, history, related to Europe and North America..... Israel foremost for geography and history, it's interpretation of democracy compared to other democratic countries.. Judaism because of friendships, but also because I have always been interested in religions and how they develop- or not, LOL. I speak 5 languages most of them fluently- and I have never signed a mail with anonymous.

Lisa, all the Jews who survived world war 11 & the Holocaust had numbers tatooed on their arms.I guess this was enough evidence, at the time, that they were Jews.Of course they were/are accepted as Jews. as are their children & grandchildren. If the woman in this cival marriage is Jewish, her children will be Jewish.

Birdi, I knew about the tattoos- you say 'of course'- I suppose it had to serve as proof at the time- compared to the rather complicated and involved procedure of today, this was very inconclusive- all the other people who were in the camps for political reason, or because they were gay..... they must have had tattoos too. I was just wondering why now there is such a strict and complicated selection process- this must be something fairly recent- . I could imagine there still being people, like refugees without papers- how do they ever proof they are Jewish? Refugees asking for asylum in a country do get new ID papers- . How can a Jewish refugee ever be accepted as Jewish without any certificates or ID papers etc...?

Not all Shoa survivors had a number on their arm , only those who survived a death camp .

You can evven be a tourist and get married . They had gone to the Rabbanut only two weeks ahead of their wedding ? Was it in time , or not ? She is older than him ? so what ? Are there laws against this ? Those were irrelevant arguments . What was wrong : his birth certificate was'nt "kosher" . Now the Rabbanut can always prosecute him if his birth certificate was a fake

... in Cyprus, Italy or anywhere else in Europe.

Listen , i understand your interests , but , and you probably noticed it , most views exprimed here are "extreme" ones . There are not many people , exept Roman of Lod who gives sometimes nice explanations , who will explain things in a serious way . My interests ? Modern History , geopolitics , but most of all the Tremendeous Jewish contribution to Humanity . As a Spanish Journalist wrote : "Not only the Jews lost in the Shoa , but Europe too lost . Who knows how many future Einstein's were'nt murdered" .

Yes, I noticed the impulsive TBs- and I do understand that people often react in less than professional ways, especially on topics that are close to their hearts. I can identify with the feelings...what I do not appreciate is people getting abusive and insulting. There is no need for it- without moderators it is often impossible to keep the discussions on topic and polite. One of my current 'projects' would fit in well with your interests: The Life of Menahem Ben Saruk , who lived in my town, not my home town, but my place of residence at the moment- world traveler, you know, LOL. I am sure you can figure out where this is......

I forgot to add : Jewish contribution in the last 150-200 years , and not specially the religious field . Has'nt a Great Jewish thinker a statue in the town where you live today ? And people say that Jews are the wandering ones ! LOL

there is a beautiful small plaza in the Call (old Jewish quarters) named after M. Ben Saruq- I love going there- it is thinking place, LOL

just wanted to check this to make sure I was correct: The Maimonides statue is in Cordoba- Menahem Ben Saruq was from Tortosa, but went to Cordoba to study- he wrote the first Hebrew dictionary.

As Ben Saruk only was born in Tortosa , but worked in Cordoba , my idea was that you lived there . And of course , it was to the statue of Maimonides that i was refering . I have a post card from this place .