MUST recognize that the cooperative exchange of Jewish & Arab Middle Eastern populations during early statehood would have prevented any refugees. Thus, status & reparations of Jewish refugees from Arab countries entirely on par with "Palestinian refugees." Arab countries hold responsibility for refusing hospitality & succor to their own, & should pay reparations to them.

I have just read 50 talkbacks relating to the above article. Peace? We are all kidding ourselves. There is no extreme right and left wing. Instead, look at it as a large circle. The extreme right meet the extreme left and under their different flags each wants to annihilate the other. Peace? Sure over my right/left wing body.

You wrote: "20 years of humiliation and Areas A and B are more than enough thank you." There's that word. "Humiliation." I've been humbled much of my adult life. I see my peers out-performing me in virtually every respect. It is humbling. It is humiliating. But I don't act out in violence. I don't strap bombs on my body to redress my grievances and my humiliation. Isn't this the problem in your part of the world? A loss of honor? You feel a sense of grievance and humiliation? Because the Jews have returned to and are living in the Muslim world as equals, this constitutes a humiliation. It is humiliating. Non-Muslims (Christians and Jews) urging that you accept them on equal terms, that constitutes humiliation. Unless you are superior; unless we submit (as dhimmis), there is humiliation in Areas A and B. Am I wrong?

#46 Brian. The international community recognized fictional Palestine in 1988. That didn't make it any more real. It was a total fiasco. If "Palestinians" make another proclamation, Israel can easily turn it into an even bigger fiasco. You are one of the few Judea/Samaria Jews who fear such a proclamation. So don't call others "idiots" for not being afraid.. Likud's Danny Danon has recommended annexing much of Judea and Samaria in response to another fictional state declaration. That is only one of many ways Israel can assure Palestine remains fictional forever. Israel has enormous support in the U.S., as Bibi's recent visit illustrated, and among rightists in general. Once we seriously claim Judea and Samaria, our true friends will stand with us. Israel must stand up for her rights. Not surrender.

#48 Muyyad, You don't have to worry about "temporary borders" for fictional Palestine. It's borders will always be imaginary. Like the borders of Oz and Neverland.

The only road to Peace is through negotiations when the Palestinians and the Arab World are ready to talk. So far they continue to preach hatred and isolation of Israel with the ultimate goal of destroying the Jewish State. The US won't let that happen nor will the Israel. Never again means NEVER AGAIN.

Perhaps it would be a clever move for Israel to recognize a Palestinian State, but preserve the reality on the ground as long as it needs. So say yes we recognize you, the world recognizes you, but we will not withdrawal the IDF, the settlements on Samaria and Judea stay and the borders will be negotiated under Israeli terms. Israel will put the ball in the Pals court, because it did it's part it formally recognized the Pals their State. Remember Israel is powerful enough to, to make such a move. The big guys can play these games so can we as Jewish people. Recognize their precious state, but change nothing on the ground. I think the Pals will not know how to handle this approach, we need to surprise them, not let them surprise us. Let them run after us, not we after them.

They ask "why do the Palestinians not come and negotiate". Well they refuse to until Israel unilaterally complies with some pre-conditions for the negotiations that go beyond our red lines. They want Israel to freeze all building even in areas that Israel wants to retain in any agreement. That is their choice, but to blame Israel for the lack of negotiations without recognizing this fact only highlights the basic dishonesty of their position and sufficient evidence to disregard anything they say.

"No point in struggling against recognition that already has international support" ----- Legal advisor, do you understand that for Israel to recognize Palestinian state requires agreeing on undisputed borders. The rest of the World can indulge themselves with this recognition thing, but if Israel and Arabs will not be able to settle where borders are then this so called Palestinian state will not materialize. And unless and until Arabs are ready to meet Israeli conditions I wouldn't worry about meaningless World's recognition. ------------- Try figuring out first who are actors and who are just spectators waiting for happy end.

Two of the Netanyahu five No's are the primary reason that the Palestinians see no reason to return to talks. Netanyahu's end game includes no sovereignty nor any independence for Palestine.. That is crystal clear from his speech. Almost every other issue could be finessed. But on these two issues the Palestinians have no room. Hence the stalemate and pursuit of other avenues. Among other things: Independence means government not subject to Israeli approval or pre-screening by Israeli authorities; and Sovereignty means real borders controlled by Palestinians, without Israeli occupying troops or oversight, with a real Palestinian right to own and control personal and real property. Netanyahu's speech denies both to Palestinians even as an end goal.

Do SPECIFY the parts of Netanyahu's speech that EXACTLY match your CLAIMS. And you might as well do the SAME for the other so-called NOs.

'How is it possible to ignore those settlers when most of them in Hebron, Yitzhar, etc. are determined to use violence....'rather' than deal with the new emerging reality?' I see you are an educated person, and able to think & talk for yourself. Therefore, I hope you can see in your words above two seperate issues, which became merged into one . First, you mention acts of settler violence, which by itself can be isolated as unacceptable. However, when you linked those acts of violence to settler resistance to accepting a reality that forces them from their homes, you yourself hit the nail on the head! My original headline related to destroying settlements as being a highly provocative act. Let's face it, both sides are subject to bigots as you correctly said, and they both demand nothing short than the other's forced removal from the land. I'm presenting another vision, which was partially promted on your comments #3 which was inspiring in its frankness. I believe you that there are many of your people who prefer a way of peace, so please also accept my comment that the same holds true for settlers. Sadly, the media in general makes money reporting acts of violence and immorality. However, I hope Ynet can rise to the occasion and see in our honest exchange a chance to play a role in a more realistic bid for peace, brought on by those of us actually living here. Just one important question...should it be 'possible' for 'both sides' to curb terrorism & violence, would you personally see a healthy number of Palestinians willing to accept settlers to continue living under own government?

I'm glad that you are acknowledging that there has never been an Arab Palestinian state. Now that we have that cleared up, it is also factually clear that there have been several Jewish states called Israel or Judea located right here, and that the Jews were overrun, occupied and turned into refugees. That is a real fact. So, unless you're telling us that there is a statute of limitations on refugee status, then you are forced to admit that the Jews have a right to live in their homeland. And if not, of course, then simply tell us how long your statute of limitations is on refugee status, and we'll wait for it to run out on the Arabs who claim that they are "Palestinians".

What kind of baloney are you trying to push that "a real Palestinian right to own and control personal and real property"?? You clearly have never spent any time in the area you pretend to have so much knowledge about. Palestinians have always had the right to own and control their property. The absolute vast majority of them do just that. In fact the majority of them are beholden to the Palestinian Authority, not Israel. Go to Ramalla or Nablus or Jenin, you phony, and find out who owns what land. It's crackpots like you who pretend they know what they're talking about who mix fiction and propaganda and pretend that it's fact. Crikey, if you have nothing intelligent to say at least don't show us your ignorance.

#71. Nobody has ever produced a rational answer to the simplest question of all regarding "peace talks" with the P.A. Israel has ____ to gain by talking to the P.A.? Can anybody fill in the blank? Didn't think so. What does Israel have to lose by talking to the P.A.? Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, defensible borders, freedom from constant rocket attacks, freedom from inundation by hostile Arabs... In short, EVERYTHING.

"should it be 'possible' for 'both sides' to curb terrorism & violence, would you personally see a healthy number of Palestinians willing to accept settlers to continue living under own government? " The answer is a resounding YES. Palestinians don't hate settlers because they are settlers. They hate them because they represent the occupation, are armed, uproot trees, burn fields, take over their private land to build Jewish-only roads, etc. Generally they are also regarded as recent immigrants who lack respect towards the indigenous Arab population. Consult MAAN news agency for regular reports and evidence of regular hit and runs, mosque burning, and other ungodly acts. If by "own government" above you meant the settlers would continue living in the West Bank under a settler government, that would be unacceptable, besides creating a dangerous precedent. Sovereignty implies spreading and applying one law over a territory. I don't see a problem with some degree of municipal autonomy for the settlement blocks that stay, but their own political and fiscal autonomy? I don't see that is possible. Would you accept a similar request from Palestinians living in Israel"?

It was published on Y-Net Netanyahu wants to station troops and Israeli cities permanently inside Palestine. Netanyahu also reserves the right to determine who can and cannot be in the Palestinian government. READ his speech.

I recognize Israel as a jewish state, make Hamas accept the three quartet principles, allow Israel to build settlements, start peace talks fresh and not from where Olmert left off, not use the 1967 border line as a starting point, and not attach any time frame to peace talks. Will accept abu dis as capital of Palestine, not allow refugees to return to Israel but to a new palestine state. Will this be enought to bring peace?

And under any realistic peace agreement these areas, as well as other places of critical strategic and national importance, will be incorporated into the final borders of Israel. . . .n any real peace agreement, in any peace agreement that ends the conflict, some settlements will end up beyond Israel’s borders. o if Israel simply walked out of the territories, the flow of weapons into a future Palestinian state would be unchecked. And missiles fired from it could reach virtually every home in Israel in less than a minute. And it’s vital, absolutely vital, that Israel maintain a long-term military presence along the Jordan River. Solid security arrangements on the ground are necessary not only to protect the peace, they’re necessary to protect Israel in case the peace unravels. But Israel will not negotiate with a Palestinian government backed by the Palestinian version of Al Qaida. That we will not do. So I say to President Abbas, “Tear up your pact with Hamas, sit down and negotiate, make peace with the Jewish state. And if you do, I promise you this: Israel will not be the last country to welcome a Palestinian state as the new member of the United Nations. It will be the first to do so.” ______ No independence or sovereignty for Palestine

Sovereignty does also mean to work for your living instead of relying on international welfare.

A frank exchange I have not seen on these boards for some time. I hope to see more. David, you state your location as Shiloh, we call the same place Silwan. I have a close college friend that lives in Silwan and he tells me about the difficulties the Palestinian population goes through there. The same reminds me of the difficult situation in Hebron, my hope city where settlers have virtually turned the Arab old city into a ghost town with there demand for security. I fear the same is happening in Silwan. Since you live there and know the people that call this place Shiloh, what do they seek to do? Is it true they seek to settle and create a large Jewish presence?

I'm curious why you made such an offer? Do you really think it's fair or just fair to a people that lost a war? What of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Jerusalem?

to include all tyhe major settlement blocks, jordon valley and the golan. the palis lie through their teeth and a weak and leaderless world believes. remember what happened to the native indians, the aboriginies and the maories. we must stay united and strong, and finally arm all the settlements.

The right-wing are the true enemy of the state, they will destroy Israel with their fanatism and political pressure using religion as their tool.

Mark SELECTS sections of Netayanhu's speech but is UNABLE to correlate to his CLAIMS, .e.g No independence or sovereignty. Also, Mark DELIBERATELY omits the parts that provide the CONTEXT to his "proof". In other words, he is trying to pass off his own OPINION to what has been said as solid FACTS! Laughable.

as per the picture Former is the correct word- and as per diplomats- nobody and i mean nobody heard about them

and the lefties will give Israel away piece by piece. it's better to fight for what you own than loose it all.

kudos again to you Brian, your post is music to my ears.