Opinion
Don’t trust the French
Giulio Meotti
Published: 14.11.11, 11:32
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61. Stupid French-Bashing
Alexandre ,   Nancy, France   (11.14.11)
I'm French and pro-Israeli but I am fed up with this anti-French garbage. I'm not proud of what Sarkosy say and do but this article is xenophobic because it puts all the French in the same bag. Of course, Vichy helped the Nazis but you forget that France has a higher percentage of surviving Jews than in other occupied countries (Poland, Greece, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Hungary). Hussein was not indeed an angel but is the Irakian actual situation better for the Jews ? I do not think so. Concerning the jokes about our army, the Ynakees are glad they have our soldiers in Afghanistan. Even today,a 76th French soldier died. But he was a Gaul so who cares ?
62. Dimona
(11.14.11)
Thanks and thanks to France only that the State of Israel has the nuclear deterrance that it requires to stay alive. Dimona is why Israel is still around today. BTW, what about the Mirage jets that the IAF used to dismantle the Arab airforces in 1967. Where is your proof about Mr. Sarkozy not using the word Shoah in textbooks...proper references please.
63. To nr 58 berlonski.
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (11.14.11)
There are several logical fallacies in your "arguments" - if you would simply get over yourself and your inflated ego and self importance. Who says that "trusting" people will make you prosper and being suspicious will not make you prosper? There is certainly no reason to trust the world since the world has a very poor record on saving Jewish lives and since Germany, France, Norway and UK are de facto anti-Semitic, why should we deny simple facts? Should we pretend that spit is rain to make you feel better? The world is what it is - no more - no less. Some people you can trust and some people you can't trust. This has always been the case in human existence. Do you sincerely believe that Europeans and Americans trust each other? Do you think that Europeans trust each other? Do you think Russia trusts anybody except for its armed forces? Do you think China trusts anyone? Do you think India and China trust each other? Do you think India and Pakistan trust each other? Do you think Arabs and Persians trust each other? Do you think Poles and Russians trust each other? Do you think Greeks and Turks trust each other? Do you think Japanese and Chinese trust each other? Do you think USA and Latin America trust each other? The answer to all these questions is a most resounding no, so why singling out the Jews as being "special" in this case? Israel has prospered and is still prospering before your very eyes, Israel's success in economic growth, the ingathering of the Jewish exiles, the revival of the Hebrew language, the military victories, the struggle against the desert and malaria swamps and the transformation of Israel into a scientific and technological powerhouse is due to Israel and only to Israel. Israel was far more isolated in the 1940s until the 1990s than today. Nations don't need to like each other nor trust each other in order to develop strong economies, well educated people and technologically and scientifically advanced nations.
64. The Frenchs and Meotti article
elzeide ,   Buenos Aires   (11.14.11)
I want to remark what you wrote and is almost never mentioned. That, in the 1967 Six-Day War, when Israel’s life was threatened, France’s President Charles de Gaulle took a pro-Arab policy and instituted a weapons embargo on the Middle East. And I still remeber his remarks characterizing the Jewish people as “an elitist and domineering people.” I didn't know it was the first time since World War II that a head of state had directed an anti-Semitic remark at Israel and the Jewish people. It's a must for Israel to win friends, but France ended up as a very bad one (they called themselves our allies before '67) . And the problem with the jewish people was there well before the muslim immigration. Do you remember Dreyfus?
65. To elzeide
Alexandre ,   Nancy, France   (11.14.11)
Some of your remarks are correct but let me give you some precisions. It's true that De Gaulle called the Israelis "domineering people" but I don't think it's completely negative from him. You see, De Gaulle used to compare us (the French) with calves so I think the term "domination" was somewhat a positive qualification. Concerning Dreyfus, it's right he was blamed just because he was a Jew. But a lot of French intellectuals stood up for him and he was absolved (he finished his life peacefully at the age of 75 years old). Let's compare with the fate of Leo Frank.
66. sandro italy no 53
LION OF JUDAH   (11.14.11)
Most important is the Israeli pilots. In 1967 the Mirage came famous because of the war & the Israeli pilots. now IAF not using French Mirage but American fighters. G D BLESS ALL THE ISRAELI PILOTS
67. #63 One of the best talkback I have read on the subject
Yossef   (11.15.11)
68. to Alexander, Tel Aviv #60,63
citizen   (11.15.11)
You write extremely well. I appreciate your comments.
69. #63 Alexander
Fluffi ,   Germany   (11.15.11)
Yes, "trust" is not a precondition for prosperity, but it is for peace. Maybe that's the problem.
70. To # 29
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (11.15.11)
Denmark DID (and Bulgaria).
71. French Aid
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (11.15.11)
If I am not mistaken, Israel bought a couple of planes from France!! Shame on you for not buying American items with all the aid Israel gets from the US!!!
72. To # 53
Ameridane ,   Aarhus, Denmark   (11.15.11)
Is that so? The only reason that Israel bought French Mirage, Fouga Magister and other planes was that no other country wanted French war materiel (including the AMX 13 tanks ( one drives, thirteen push) . At that time you either bought Russian, American or British. After the 6-days war, many countries went for French materiel, but Israel, that promoted the value of the French arms, had its supply of spares cut off by De Gaulle. It might make you feel better to jnow that Marcel Dassult was sent to a concentration camp as he was a Jew by the same people who later sold his "wares"
73. PARIS OR PARISTAN?
BUTSeriously ,   Sydney   (11.15.11)
It appears the same weapons France planned for Israel has made a U-Turn.
74. To: No. 71
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.15.11)
Not until following the Six Day War, when the French cut Israel off and the United States recognized the value of a democratic ally in that region of the world. Moreover, please make no mistake of how United States foreign aid to Israel is structured (I am getting really tired of repeating myself): 1. A small amount takes the form of interest-bearing cash loans. There are only two countries which have a perfect repayment record. Finland is one. Israel is the other. 2. A somewhat larger amount takes the form of military credits. These credits must be spent in the United States (keeps people employed, I guess, in these tough economic times), and carry a back-end provision requiring Israel to make available to the manufacturers any and all improvements made. These improvements have been legion, and have always been shared. 3. By far and away the largest amount of foreign aid to Israel takes the form of joint-venture investment capital. Do you carry a mobile phone? Thank Israel. Are you grateful for facial recognition software installed at airports and major rail stations? Thank Israel. Need an MRI? Thank Israel. The list is endless, and includes well over one-half of all the chemotherapy protocols in use in the world today. Do you know a breast cancer survivor whose life was saved by Dose Dense AC and Taxol? Thank Israel. On the other hand, the United States throws billions of dollars into Jordan, the ersatz "Palestine" Authority, Iraq, Egypt and a whole host of other countries. Care to describe the benefit that the United States -- or the West -- has reaped? The fact is, you cannot, because there hasn't been any benefit. It's like throwing money into the deep blue sea. Oh -- and by the way -- wasn't it a Danish cartoonist who was threatened because the Islamofascists took great offense at a very gentle cartoon? Get an education. You are in dire need of one.
75. To: No. 69
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.15.11)
Care to suggest how to make "peace" with individuals bent on your destruction?
76. European leadership, in general, stinks.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.15.11)
This article is on target. However, many of the comments in it apply equally to most European nations. Not just France. While there are many Europeans who are friends of Israel; particularly on the political right and among Fundamentalist Christians; European leadership, in general, stinks.
77. Reply to Jenny at #8
Texana ,   Austin TEXAS   (11.15.11)
Jenny, this is not about emotion; it's about absolute facts. Undeniable, indisputable facts ---facts and the behavior of Sarkozy recently (documented) show an ugliness and hatred not at all complimentary of France. It unfortunately looks like a pattern that is continuing, when I hoped that France was different.
78. Reply to Norman, France @ 14
Texana ,   Austin TEXAS   (11.15.11)
Thank you for your support of Israel and what is right and just. (I'm not Jewish either, but concerned with what is right.)
79. The French
Jack Hoffman ,   NY NY   (11.15.11)
Please do not bash the French. The French they are a wonderful race...They fight with their feet and F--K with their face!
80. What's with the sudden French-bashing?
French dude ,   Paris, France   (11.16.11)
The author of this..."piece" just puts together isolated facts, some of them several decades apart, and tries to make them look like some kind of consistent anti-semitic policy. Petain is not a national hero, he's a national shame. And need I remind you that a number of French actively resisted German occupation and secretely sheltered Jews during the war. I could come up with an exhaustive list of every pro-israeli stance taken by France, but unlike some of the talkbackers here I don't have that much time to spare. Besides, that would be giving the article much more credit than it deserves. Oh, and our military is conidered one of the most potent in the world, and I believe we are the 3rd largest contributors of soldiers in Afghanistan, after the US and the UK. In conclusion, I would advise all you French-haters to refrain from generalizing. Saying "all French are anti-semitic" is a bit like saying "all Jews are [insert adjective here]", isn't it? I would have thought Israelis, of all people, would understand the dangers of prejudice. Ah, well. I guess even the chosen people have their share of idiots...
81. @80
Steve ,   WA, USA   (11.16.11)
Your lecture on bigotry ends with...?? Bigotry?? LOL
82. French dude #80 if the shoe fits
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (11.16.11)
France has been bashing us for many decades and guess what you are getting just a tiny piece back. The French government aids and abets terrorists that attack us - that is called an act of war. They send money to subvert our government - another act of war. How many acts of war will you put up with? France aided the Nazis rounding up Jews MORE than any other Western European government, that is an absolute fact. Your military is better know for surrender than combat. Your country OCCUPIES territories all over the world. As for all French being anti-Semitic no, but a majority sure as hell are.
83. #80 Nothing sudden
A Jew ,   ex-France, now in US   (11.16.11)
Monsieur le "French dude", you are willingly overlooking the consistent pattern of deadly antisemitism that is prevalent and endemic in France and has been so for well over a thousand years. That is why several hundred thousand native French Jews (including myself; my family was already in France in the 8th Cent. CE ) have fled France since WWII. Oh, yes there were a few (very few) decent, righteous and humane French people who even paid with their lives to protect Jews, their sacrifice still burn brightly (et dans mon ame ils brule encore, comme chantait G. Brassens) and deserve our everlasting thanks viz. the Chambon-sur-Lignon massacre and others. But...let's face today's reality: France's petro-based economic needs trump everything, including the Jews' and Israel's survival. These very same considerations led de Gaulle in the 1960's to renege on the French government's obligations to Israel. Never mind the more-than-willing WWII collaboration of the French with the Nazis' extermination program and the subsequent whitewash of the Vichy perps. e.g. Papon, Mitterand et al. As to French military prowess, the less said the better (the French military record in Dinquerke (WWII), Algeria, Indochina, Madagascar, West and Central Africa etc. speaks for itself particularly in terms of the death toll of unarmed victims). Yes, France has the 3rd largest contingent of troops in Afghanistan... so what? What exactly have these soldiers accomplished over there? Peace? Heck no! The potency of the French military is and has been the laughing-stock of the world ever since the end of WWI (la risee du monde militaire). Don't get into a high-dudgeon (ne montez pas sur vos ergots) just because Jews and others publicize France's unending moral failings... As to idiots, you take the cake...look closely in the mirror and you'll see a prime example of one (un con incurable!) in your own reflection and you are not even one of the "Chosen People". Before you try to post more inanities, think carefully...maybe you'll desist thus lessening your exposure to well-earned derision!
84. As a matter of fact, I am...
French dude ,   Paris, France   (11.16.11)
...part of the "chosen people" my friend. Why else would i be reading an israeli newspaper? Believe it or not, most non-jewish French are neither anti-israeli nor anti-semitic, they simply could not care less about Israel. You left France after WW2, you say; your bitterness about my country is understandable, as is your agressivity. You're so far away that all you ever read about us is random acts of antisemitism blown out of proportion by your media. So, sorry if your lige in France didn't wirk out. But that's too bad for you. I, along with many other French Jews, feel perfectly at home where I am, and i completely identify to French culture and values. Your picture of a bleak, hateful country exists only in your head. Petain was French, yeah. So were Voltaire, Rousseau, Zola, and countless other writers and philosophers. This debate really is silly. And yeah, our past governments made deals with the devil. Duh. Did you just discover there was no morality in politics? Why don't you examine the past politics of your buddy the US. How many corrupt and dictatorial regimes did they prop up in order to further their interests, during and after the Cold War? Ever heard of IranGate? But by all means, continue to indulge in your French-bashing if it makes you guys feel better.
85. Sarkozy is not France
Alextd ,   Paris, France   (11.16.11)
You denonce Sarkozy's behaviour to Israel and talk about Vichy's collaboration during WW2 but fortunately for our country, all french people are not anti-semitic. We have a high muslim population in France which give to France a picture of a pro-Palestinian country who ban Israel. But don't forget that we are more than 600 000 jews in France and certainly the one in Europe with so much schuls, kosher restaurants, beth habad. France and Israel are not ennemies
86. grand nation
chantalle.ezer ,   Frankfurt Germany   (11.16.11)
The French still consider themselves as international players en par with the USA , Russia or China. In 'old Europe' we shrug our shoulders and laugh about them. Anti-Israel and antisemitic sentiments will rise when the French economy is further declining. Good for Israel: many well-trained and well-educated people will immigrate. Chantalle Ezer
87. France did win the first battle!
Sean M ,   Fredericksburg   (11.17.11)
Let us not forget that France (the French army lead by Charles Martel) won the first great battle of Muslim Aggression in 732, in the great Battle of Tours. The French were outnumbered more than 2 to 1. And the Muslims had been ravaging Spain and traveling eastward unchecked for 20 years. Until Martel courageously kicked their arses and sent them packing! Viva la France!! (At least the brave, down-to-earth, blue-collar Frenchman)
88. Sean M #87 pretty bad
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (11.17.11)
If one has to go back 1,300 years to find a French Army that could fight. Not many of them left.
89. #87 LOL a kindergartner's class in "bad" History?
ex-France   (11.17.11)
Yup, Charles Martel did a good job in Poitiers in repelling the Moorish invaders; and later on Charlemagne was shrewd enough to use the Jews' noted intelligence for the benefit of the new empire....but their joint legacy was quickly whittled away (all within a couple of centuries) with the malicious help of the Popes and lesser clergy. The Frankish tribal groups and other local tribes, all at the behest of the Catholic Church soon started anti-Jewish persecutions which NEVER EVER stopped (even unto this day), the empire was nicely "balkanized" and eventually...many centuries later the French imported Muslims "en masse" to do menial work (imitated later by the Germans with their beloved Turks) etc. The results speak for themselves; France (read the EU aka "Festung Europa") as much as it hates/fears Muslims, panders to their insect-like multitudes and tolerates them because it hates Jews even more... Sarkozy and Juppe are NOT the embodiment of France's lofty but never fulfilled revolutionary & pompous ideals, they are just notorious individual representations of the incurable anti-Jewish mindset of the French and their fellow european antisemites (oh...let's not forget to include the truly ultra philo-semitic Slavs, Swiss, Turks, Hungarians etc.).
90. Sarkozy can't hates jews because
Adde ,   France   (11.18.11)
He is a french-hungarian jew .... His mother is from an important sepharade jewish family, the Mallah first based in Thessaloniki (Greece) during the Ottoman Empire. Also the wife of his son Jean Sarkozy, named Jessica Sebaoun Darty is jew. So to the author of this column, you just bashed the french people as a whole because a jewish-french criticized a jewish-israeli. This article is a disgrace.
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