This is getting annoying.

While Hezbollah are busy training to harm our boys in the next bout, the IDF is busy arguing over a bunch of shtuyot! All women can sing but you can't force anyone to listen, this is a no brainier. Get back to training the IDF and prepare them all, whether religious or secular, to fight together to defeat our enemies!

women and her voice and it has to do with "I don't like this type of music." then what? Must the soldier still listen against his or her will? Perhaps even female soldiers may not like to hear a female singer because of the type of music she sings. Do we always have to find something to fight over? We have enough enemies all around us. Making 'Gender' our enemy makes no sense. Yalla chamuda - sing.

It is obvious that Jewish Law doesn't allow a man to listen to a woman singing besides his wife , mother and daughter. Likewise a woman should not sing in front of men unless her husband, sons or her father. So if any individual Woman wants to sing anyhow in front of me, and for whatever reason the IDF wants to allow it, what is the justificAtion to force on religious soldiers to follow their religion and just walk out in something that it is not vital to the army? Barvibai and glantz you are completely absolutely wrong. Nobody is taking away the women free choice, (nobody at this point is fighting for women not to sing in public) but obviously you want to take away the religious soldiers free choice by forcing it on them.

It isn't 'modest' for a man to hear a woman singing??? But it's okay for a man to physically force a woman to move to the back of the bus??? And it's okay for men to call little girls whores??? That's okay??? The more I read about this, the more I am being pushed further and further away from Judaism. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that a man cannot hear a woman's voice!!!

Second comandment - " Thou shallt love thy Neighbour as Thyself " !. Anybodys Freedom cant stand against anybody elses Freedom, and anybodys Right can stand against anybody elses. This as such but, When it comes to action in a Task/Mission, there is something called Authoritarian Position, where Higher Ranks has bigger Rights/Responsibilities, than Lower ones, as we can call The Right of Command. Arn.Sweden.

not vaudeville. Why in the world does an army have singers in the first place? It is one of the stupidest ideas ever. If you can't shoot a gun, stop taking my tax money and get out of the army.

It's about the rights of religious practices of others. Changing religious practices belong to the religious sector, not to the IDF. If there were Muslims or Christians who weren't allowed to hear the women, they would be allowed to walk out. These practices were in force long before the IDF. Since when is the IDF going to be anti-semitic?

Unfortunately in a secular Israel, this is a big issue. So we should force the soldiers to eat not kosher and become members of a cult. Come on people! And religion is not a disease, i feel so sorry for this comment. Everyone that has a difficulty turns out to G-d being jewish, christian, atheist whatever... Beezrat Hashem you wont find any troubles in your life.

All those who are defending haredi demands and asking to be excluded from listening to girls singing, please explain my following queries:- 1) According haredi customs men-woman can not sit together. So in next stage will you ask woman to be shifted in back rows in all idf functions? 2) According to haredi customs, man should not talk to strange woman, so in next stage will you ask not to serve under a lady senior officer? 3) According to your alacha, you should not touch other woman. Now if you have orders to search a woman suspect or arrest her - what will you do? 4) According to alacha one should not touch anything which is not kosher. Do you know that most of our tanks, weapons and planes are manufactured out of this country. May be they are also built on Saturdays. Now will you deny to climb on them and use them ? You see, if we go according to alacha, then these demands will have no end and idf will turn into another lazy yashiva. If you want to join idf and serve your duty and take your responsibility then you also you have to liscen to woman singing.

HUMAN RIGHTS POLICY HAS BEEN MEANT FOR EVERY PEOPLE EVERYWHERE AND ALWAYS.

...please see my earlier post #8. It was realistic and absent the sarcasm of your query.

The word "perform" implies this is something other than military customs and courtesies. If someone walked out on the US National Anthem, as long as that singer demonstrated respect for what he or she was singing, then regardless of who the singer was, I would consider that a response not to the singer but on the song. And therefore to the concept behind that song being included in that military formation. Perhaps Israelis feel the same way about their national anthem or other songs sung in an official gathering. Singing in a military ceremony is never a performance; it is part of the ceremony.

This thread seems more emotive than the other one. Perhaps all of us, including myself, can discuss it more rationally. The issue at hand is the priority assigned to religious values and mission accomplishment. I have met not a few people who sincerely followed the Bible, including this verse: "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence" (1 Tim. 2:11-12). These people have refused to attend religious study classes taught by women, and the rest of their lives matched this; they were not simply using faith as an excuse. So too the Haredi in question: they are not simply trying to "get over", but rather they are trying to live their faith. Nevertheless, in the US military, you will learn from whoever teaches, regardless of race, color, religion, ethnicity or gender. Despite any deeply held beliefs. The paradigm is that the mission comes first. If the mission is the successful completion of a military ceremony or formation, it might not be as important. But if the mission involved protecting lives or property, there also is no question; the mission will come before anyone's comfort. Perhaps the solution is to allow the haredi to follow their conscience with the understanding that should the military decide the mission takes precedent, the haredi would follow the lawful orders of the officers appointed over them. This may mean remaining in formation as part of an honor guard at a ceremony in honor of a dignitary (Defense Minister, Members of Knesset) at which singing of the National Anthem by the (female) soldier designated to do so was included in the ceremony.

Finally someone stands up to these religious lunatics who dont seem to be able to control their sexual feelings upon hearing a women sing. May be they should try therapy and with the help of medication they might one day be able to act like normal human beings and rejoin society. Lets hope one day they find a cure for this disease " religious fanatism syndrome"

using the I.D.F. as a way of advancing in the entertainment field. Stop the music and let these soldiers, both male and female perform the duties of soldiers. Patrol, fix things, guard duty, road blocks, ect. Their time spent practicing and singing means other soldiers have to do more. Also no one who has not served as a combat soldier should advance above the rank of lt.colonel. I believe that was how it was in the I.D.F. years ago.

They are sensitive to Islamic law. Jewish law however can be ignored. Hipicritical self loathing Jews.

The IDF as in any army requires that orders be followed. The problem of women singing (Kol Isha) is limited to an Ashkenazi sect that adheres to a ban placed on women’s voices in a Gomorrah tractate that calls a women’s voice immodest, almost akin to nudity. This ban is not universal to all orthodox/religious Jewish streams. There as large difference between an ordinary solider and an officer. It is completely unacceptable for an officer to discriminate between sexes in the army as this can lead to loss of an engagement and putting lives in danger. No candidate for officers training should be accepted if he wants to adhere to the ban on women’s voices. I do not think there is any rational person who today thinks a women’s voice is akin to nudity in any way, these sects need to come to terms with 21st century reality.

Why can't religious soldiers that object be excused form that part of the ceremony?

If you have something to add to the dialogue, please state it respectfully and without profanity. In this matter you can add to a constructive dialogue on this issue. We have enough painful hate and divisiness in this country on all sides, we don't need more people throwing gasoline on the fire--especially those who don't have to live directly with the consequences.

I thought that the issur applied to women singing solo and that there is more discussion in the Gemora about women singing in a group. Anyway, I agree with you that soldiers who are religious should be excused from that part of the ceremony. Also, respect for halachah will help encourage more religious to serve in the army, which I think we really need.

the hate goes both ways. Little girls in Beit Shemesh having feces and rock thrown at them by the hareidim while walking to school to the shouts of "whores" and "shiksas." Throwing bleach on women (religious ones, modestly dressed by most standards) walking in Mea Shearim. This behavior, which is increasing, is the back story to the backlash. The difference is that RELIGIOUS people are attacking little children (religious ones too, I might add) in the NAME of the Torah. Rav Kook said something along the lines of we, the religious (I am religious myself) created atheism by our hillul Hashems. Unless you live here and live with all this every day, it's easy to take one side or another. The truth is we all need more ahavas chinam and din cal adam l'chaf zchus, and derech eretz KADMA la Torah.

The dati leumi community proudly serves our country while some other groups either refuse to serve for "religious reasons" or just skip out altogether(something like 40% of non-religious residents in places like Tel Aviv do not serve at all, just because). The picture is much more complicated than you give credit for since not living here you can't see the whole picture. IF we want the religious to serve, then we have to respect their beliefs. There are compromises that most religious rabbis support, but it doesn't make tantalizing news headlines or feed into the talkback feeding frenzy, but it does bring out every individual from both sides with an ax to grind, so we don't need Iran to destroy us because we can do that ourselves. If you want to add to the solution, then come here, serve in the army, and make your voice respectfully heard. If you just want to vent your hatred of the religious, then please do it in your living room. We have enough maliciousness here on all sides. We need people to bridge the gaps and that means everyone woking ouside their comfort zone. Shalom.

the Soview Union, Cambodia, Burma, China, and other communist countries? The problem is that human beings take any belief, religious or not, and turn it into a stick to beat other human beings. Religion is no different than Communism or any other 'ism in that sense. I know many great human beings that were inspired by their faith and have been the victim of people doing things in "G-d's name." But I have also seen such violent hatred of people that do no profess any religion, but are fanatic in their agenda (even something like environmentalism and animal rights). I think that the problem is one of the left frontal hemisphere moderating our animal brains. Moderating in everything.