Opinion
Arab judge, Jewish words
Noah Klieger
Published: 01.03.12, 18:17
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31. Is Israel Jewish? He is not a private citizen
m   (03.01.12)
Is he representing the JEWISH state? Will he as a Supreme court rule against the state that he is not recognizing its symbols? But maybe Israel is not a Jewish state and then there will not be any restrain for anyone in the world wanting to live there and Jibran may well rule that. So typical of the Israelis who don't know who they are.
32. I am jewish, israeli and zionist, but
Yossef   (03.01.12)
I agree completely with the author Noah Klieger. Hatikvah cannot be imposed on non Jews in Israel, it doesn't make sense.
33. Answering The Wrong Question
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (03.01.12)
B"H The question is not what a single Arab Supreme Court Judge may do or may not do, but what an ordinary Jew in Israel can expect from the legal system in general and from the so called supreme court in particular in terms of unbiased judgment, in view of such public manifestation of tollerated Jew-hating. Let us not forget that this State of Israel was established to protect the Jews from anti-Semitism, not to expose them to it here, on our G-d given, Holy Land.
34. #1. I 'second the e-motion...'
Tim ,   Brighton   (03.01.12)
How often in public gatherings in the UK do we see so many people for whatever their personal reasons who are unhappy and refuse to sing God Save the Queen? The Welsh prefer to sing their Anthem as do the Scots.. And nobody doubts their loyalty to their country.. Why doesnt Israel have a choice of 'National Songs' in the portfolio that ALL ISRAELIS can comfortably sing together as do the Ossies and of course in the UK there is Land of Hope and Glory, Jerusalem, Danny Boy.....etc which many find much more preferable to belting out...at say an England Football match or Public Gathering whatever their political, religious or other affiliations? Why doesnt the Israeli media organise a contest and invite such songs from all walks of Israeli life maybe written by Israeli Arabs and Jews together and have them judged on TV by the public? What could be more inclusive than that? And I hope its something more lively, brassy, bolder..than the classic often emotional Hatikvah..which has its place in history but not always appropriate
35. Joubran is a citizen with the right NOT to sing!
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (03.01.12)
There is not law in Israel that says you have to sing the national anthem. Good reason, too, because there is also freedom of choice and freedom of speech and freedom of expression here in Israel too. Many of my fellow Jewish citizens sound like they belong on Orwell's animal farm, were all citizens are created equal, but non-Jews must pretend they are Jews. Israel is a free democratic country, and one can sing or not as they themselves see fit. And yea, I'm a Jew and a zionist and I believe in Israel as the Jewish state and the state of the Jews and yes - it's time for a genius of a poet to come up with a new words for a national anthem that embraces all citizens.
36. AN INDULGENT NATION
David ,   New York, NY   (03.02.12)
New song, no song, multiple songs. "Hatikvah"has worked fine for 60 years. It's a national anthem like "The Star Spangled Banner." It's not a challenge to Einstein's Law of Relativity. Every single citizen of Israel does not have to agree with every single word for it to fulfill its' symbolic role nor does every single word have to be parsed, ironically, like a Supreme Court decision. The judge's refusal to sing the song reflects his feelings about The State, and while his honesty is commendable, it's ludicrous for him to serve in his position with those feelings. There are now 200 or so nations on the planet so of course there must be at least one other nation that would tolerate this situation but GO FIND IT! Of course he should resign or be removed.
37. #18. Israel's anthem must reflect Jewish Homeland fact.
Chaim ,   Israel   (03.01.12)
#18. It is absurd to change Israel's national anthem. The anthem must reflect the fact that Israel is the Jewish Homeland. This is Israel's essential reason for being. This is Israel's destiny. Whether or not certain people are comfortable with IIsrael's anthem is completely irrelevant. There are some who aren't comfortable with the American national anthem but I guarantee they won't change it.
38. NEFESH YEHUDI is only in the anthem
Israeli 2   (03.01.12)
Am Yisrael does not practice it. THey justsing it. Words mean nothing unless you translate it into action. In other words, folkd: 1) Get rid of the knesset 2) Do not emulate the British or the Turks with THEIR systems and laws! 3) GET NEFESH YEHUDI BACK TO ISRAEL!
39. The author of this article....
sHALOM ,   U.S.A.   (03.01.12)
is a jew who wouldn't sing HaTikvah either. A leftist jew?
40. Doesn't say you're jewish; praises jewish state; it's great!
nilson fa   (03.02.12)
No matter if you're arab or anything else, the anthem doesn't say that, it only praises the jewish state, if you love it you shall sing it, and yes, it should be mandatory !
41. #35 Agree on your ideas but yet see no reason to change it
nilson fa   (03.02.12)
42. hate and fear
yaacovic   (03.02.12)
My family was murdered in the holocaust. Talking about Hatikvah, my tikvah (hope) was that as Jews we would have learned from the events of WWII and the way Jews were treated. My hope was that in the Jewish homeland things would be different. That we would have the strength to protect our rights and despite our undeniable right to defend ourselves, our minorities would be treated with respect and understanding. The same respect and understanding which we ourselves wish to receive from them. There is a worrisome segment of the community however that out of fear would stereotype our minorities and cast them all as enemies. Surely they don't all love us, but given that, which direction do you choose? Hate and fear will only lead us back to those old attitudes from pre-WWII. My tikvah now is that all sides realize this and work towards a cooperative future rather than a hostile one. Perhaps a new Hatikvah needs to written that expresses this hope. How would you write it?
43. Sing or leave official job
Yehuda ,   Galway, Ireland   (03.02.12)
Of course he should sing. He is an official in a culturally jewish state. Arabs should serve in the army, should salute the magen david flag, should speak hebrew, and so on. Whatever they are not jewish. Frenches of german or austrian origins, or of arabic origins, or whatever origin have to sing "La Marseillaise" since they occupy official job, should wear the french uniform, even though their ancestors had fight again the french army, even if the anthem is directly against the germanic people, and so on ... When you live in the country, especially if you accept official position in it, you have to accept the symbols that come with it. Or we should accept to change the status of the state (not a jewish state anymore), the flag, the language, the money, and even the name ISRAEL which is obviously a JEWISH name. You agree to be an israeli, you accept the jewish cultural heritage and the symbols that come with the citizenship.
44. Discriminating words
Pus in Boots ,   The Netherlands   (03.02.12)
Only an ignoramus can claim that singing 'God save the Queen" suits all. If the example of England is to show that Israel is an exception to the rule for having an anthem that rocks for everyone - you have just dismissed your own argument. Plenty of Brits have a problem with either God or the Queen or both. Have you ever listened to other anthems? Anthems are by default nationalist, monolithic and excluding. They often celebrate war victories and belittle other cultures. Israel's anthem speaks of a dream. In contrast to most European anthems, it does not claim superiority and does not celebrate war. And singing it is nothing less and nothing more than showing respect to the country you live in. In Holland, I have been singing proudly all my life that I am of German blood and that I honor the Lord. No one has ever found that problematic notwithstanding the fact that I am not German but Jewish, that under German reign most of my relatives were slaughtered and that I am declaring to be faithful to a god that is not mine. No one finds that problematic because I am expected to do this, because I am Dutch and respect the rule and the roots of the country I live in - even if my descent is different. Why would this be any different for an Israeli Arab? Why would he or she not be respectful to the country he/she lives in? What is the difference between that Arab and me? The difference is that when citizens anywhere in the democratic world do not respect their country, the world assumes there is something wrong with the citizens. When it comes to Israel, it is assumed by default that there is something wrong with Israel. And that is what one calls discrimination. That is discrimination and not the lyrics of Israel's anthem.
45. #43 yehuda
solomon ,   bklyn   (03.02.12)
You, like many others, are confusing RELIGION with nationality. It is easier to change from a German to a Spanish citizen. This usually happens after living in a country for a long time. But religion is deeper than nationality, as we Jews well know, after having been martyred for our religion, not nationality, and we should be sensitive to this.
46. #30 How can someone who does not "Love" Israel serve on the
rebecca ,   Modiin   (03.02.12)
supreme court of Israel? That's just dangerous (which our Supreme court is). If he "does not love this country" so much he should get out.
47. I believe
daniela ,   panama   (03.02.12)
That the State of Israel was created to be the homeland of the jews, thats why its anthem, flag or any other symbol represent preciselly that-the homeland of the jews. If any public servant, as I believe this judge is, have any problem serving the country which was created for the jews, I think he should go somewhere where he will feel comfortable with the reason of being of that state. Or he should not accept a job in which he will be representing precisely what he doesn't believe or accept..by accepting representing the State of Israel he should accept not only its laws but its values
48. Respect is enough
Rivkah F. ,   jerusalem   (03.02.12)
I have mixed feelings but I think that as long as Mr. Joubran stands at attention respectfully it is all right. I have been to gatherings & ceremonies at the Hebrew University where some Arab students sat & chatted & giggled with each other during the singing of Hatikvah. That is intolerable! But standing respectfully should be all right. When I grew up in the US, the "Lord's Prayer" was recited in the public schools & at Christmastime, Christmas songs with religious themes. I stood at attention quietly & respectfully & did not sing. The majority must be respected. But I am still uncomfortable about it.
49. #45 don't confuse Jewish peoplehood with religion
Puss in Boots ,   The Netherlands   (03.02.12)
Being Jewish is a nationality, not a religion. The Jewish people is a people and not a church. You can be an atheist and still be a Jew: as you can take Jewish history as a cultural saga that you are part of while you do not recognize the G'd who comes with it. On the other hand you can be a Jew and an American, Dutch or Argentinian citizen at the same time. Many people get it confused. Israel being a Jewish state does not mean that it is religiously Jewish. That would be impossible if it were only because there are so many different ways of being religiously Jewish. Israel is a Jewish state because it is the state of the Jews, its majority is composed of pepole who are part of the Jewish people. Like America consists mainly of Americans and Holland consists of Dutchies. So it is you who confuses religion with nationality. There is nothing weird about being a Jewish state while having non-Jewish citizens. It is a question of the predominant culture. Europe and the USA have predominantly Christian roots by the way that are religious. They even pop up in anthems and public life regularly (when are your official holidays?). But no one seems to have a problem with that. It is only a problem when it comes to Israel.
50. #47 daniela
solomon ,   bklyn   (03.02.12)
He does NOT 'have any problem serving the country which was created for the Jews'. He DOES have a problem singing a song as if he were a Jew, because he is NOT. 'Jew' is a RELIGION. This is the only national anthem I know of that has religion in it. All the others have nationalities/ citizenship, call it what you will, but it is not religion. There IS a difference.
51. Disagree
solomon ,   bklyn   (03.02.12)
To sing "Nefesh Yehudi homiyah" (A JEWISH spirit still sings) when you are not Jewish? The word is NOT “Israeli”. Others speak as if Jewish and Israeli are the same; they are not, and for him they certainly are not. One is religion, the other is citizenship. The posts speak of politics, but the word “Jewish” affects one’s RELIGION. Calling it an anthem does not change the religious connotation of the word "Jew". I am proud of that word. But I see no reason for someone who is not a Jew to sing it or even say it as if it applies to himself. I know of no other national anthem that speaks of the religion of the country. So a comparison with French singing the English anthem (for example) is not a true comparison. To quote from another’s post (shimon); The judge upholds the laws of the State, does not speak against the State, and is not involved in the 'politics' of arab members of the Knesset. He stood out of respect for the State and does not speak ill of it. Religion is deeper than nationality, as we Jews well know, after having been martyred for our religion, not nationality, and we should be sensitive to this.
52. Well, can I claim that it should have a secondary meaning?
Suzaku ,   USA   (03.02.12)
I'm a Christian, and a non Israeli. I, personally LOVE Hatikvah, because it doesn't just speak to an ethnically or religiously Jewish person's desire to the home of their heritage. It also speaks to a Christian's hope of Heaven. I myself love it on those grounds.
53. #37
Eugene ,   Israel   (03.02.12)
I have no problem with the anthem reflecting or mentioning the fact that the purpose of creation of Israel was to act as a homeland for Jewish people. But national anthem should respect and address all of the citizens and not only Jews. We need to integrate Arabs into Israeli society, not push them away and deepen the conflict. I'm sure there are enough creative writers/poets in Israel that can put both of those traits in a song that can act as an anthem.
54. #49 puss
solomon ,   bklyn   (03.02.12)
You may have a good point about Jewish being a nationality. But it is a nationality and a religion. It does not stand alone as a nationality. And how is an atheist a Jew? Maybe culturally because he was born to Jewish parents. But when you speak of being a Jew and an American or a Jew and Dutch, you speak of the religion OR the cultural aspect which is family oriented. You seek to make the word "Jew" mean the same as "Israeli" and it doesn't. "Jew" involves religious ties and/or background (blood, family) ties. You cannot be Jewish and be an Israeli Christian at the same time. "Israel being a Jewish state does not mean that it is religiously Jewish." But "Jewish" in your sentence cannot and does not include a Christian or a Moslem, only Jews. "American", "Dutch", "Lebanes" has no relation to religion. The relation of the word "Jew" to religion is direct, be it through being religious, or having been born to a Jewish family. The best I could find that might come close to your thought is "a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people". This is not the judge. He is not Jewish; he is an Israeli. It is natural to have a Jewish state while having non-Jewish citizens. I never said it was weird. I only state that the judge IS one of those non-Jewish citizens. Europe and the USA have predominantly Christian roots that are religious. But as anthems say nothing of Jesus, people don't have a problem with them. Some people still DO have a problem in that many of we Jews have to take our vacation or sick days to celebrate the Jewish Holy Days while we are usually told we cannot work on Christmas to make up the time off. The US is a Christian country and it is very evident to those of us who live here, The "problem" when it comes to these posts is the distortion of the meaning of the word "Jewish".
55. Other national anthems
Arnold ,   Canada   (03.02.12)
In Britain they sing "God save our gracious Queen.........." In Canada one stanza reads "God keep our land glorious and free......" I'd like to see if the moslems have the nerve to have the words changed from God to Allah...or if they want the words removed completely.
56. Hatikva
Cephas ,   Auburn, USA   (03.03.12)
No, he should not have to sing the words.
57. #51
MM ,   USA   (03.03.12)
Singing "Nefesh Yehudi homiyah" (A JEWISH spirit still sings)" does not imply that the one singing it is Jewish since it refers to the Jewish spirit in general, and not the spirit of the one singing it (there is no "my" or "ours"). Thus, I believe that anyone who is willing to acknowledge that Israel is a Jewish state, and the Jews' hope of 2000 years to be a free people in the land of Zion would not have a problem singing at least the first stanza. "Ode lo avdah tikvatenu Hatikvah bat shnot alpayim" does include "our". However, since the hope is to be a free nation in the land of Zion, it seems to me that anyone who enjoys the freedom of Israel could sing it. I am not Jewish, but if I happen to listen to it enough to memorize it, I would not have a problem singing it to show my respect and support for the Jewish state of Israel. Meanwhile, I would just stand at respect. Since I agree with Newt Gingrich that "Palestinians" are an invented people, I find the content of the so-called "Palestinian" national anthem inflammatory/etc., along with other reasons, I hope I would be allowed to walk/stay away, whenever it would be played. I guess if neither would be an option, I'd have to find a polite way to express my beliefs.
58. yes thats right he shouldnt be singing our anther so
esty   (03.03.12)
he shouldnt even be living in our land... cause as everyone knows israel is jewish! who doesnt agree with this well can just leave.. cause we r not uk or france
59. #57 mm, #58 esty
solomon ,   bklyn   (03.03.12)
Singing "Nefesh Yehudi homiyah" does not SAY that the one singing it is Jewish, but it does IMPLY that. He knows Israel is Jewish. He knows he is Israeli. He supports Israel. He also knows he is an Israeli Christian arab and not a Jew.
60. At least he stands
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (03.03.12)
I too don't sing HaTikva - not because I do not like it, nor do I think it wrong - I happen to be a really bad singer and do not inflict my singing upon anybody else. He has the right of free speech and can refrain from singing whenever he wants. I have no problem there. The Arabs have to understand too that respect must be a two way street - if they want it they had damn well better give too.
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