The Orthodox are always right. Had it been for the Reform none of us would have been Jewish. Maria can be a non-Jewish Israeli. However, Jews must marry the Jewish women to have the Jewish kids. And do not listen to the anti-Semites. They are the descendents of those who dragged our ancestors into the gas chambers. They are infected with an incurable virus - anti-Semitism.

Hey beilin!! if i feel black when i make aliyah will i be listed as a black man b/c i feel like it?

People need to learn the difference between Jewish Religious Law (Halacha) and Israeli Law. Jewish Religious Law says that someone is Jewish if the mother is Jewish or the person underwent a proper conversion (proper=halachic=Orthodox, for all intents and purposes) . The Israeli Law of Return, however, grants automatic citizenship to anyone with at least ONE JEWISH GRANDPARENT. Which means that theoretically not one of your parents might be Jewish but if one out of your four grandparents is Jewish you can get automatic citizenship in the State of Israel. This is how, for instance, hundreds of thousands of straight up non-Jews from Russia, who are sometimes even precticing Christians, have acquired Israeli citizenship. The issue of Halachic Jewishness or not then becomes an issue of "nationality" and personal status, say, if after making aliyah you want to get married or divorced or have a child. In fact, if people really read the article, you would see that Maria already was an Israeli citizen, but the guy wouldn't marry her because she was not Halachically Jewish. This happens at the grassroots level in Israel (as well as abroad) all the time.

My mother's mother's mother was a Martz. I even traced them all the way back to 1863. but they assimilated to fit into a culture which was anti-Semitic. And I love Israel. But, like a lot of us, we're not Jews to a few. Baloney! Kosher, of course.

Allow civil marriage in Israel or get married in Cyprus. If being married under Jewish Law is so important to one or the parties then he or she must only "court" in a 100% Jewish environment. In my opinion, more unhappiness in this world is caused by religion. Before your shout and carry on just pause for a moment and think how many people have been killed over the years in the name of religion, be they Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus and so on. The law should allow a person freedom of choice. No one expects the relgious orders to sanction this and but what is more important - making the rabbi happy or the happiness of two people? I know the answer, do you?

The people on this board are on the radical fringe right, religious.. and are so closed-minded, that they refuse to accept anything that doesn't fit their rigid, twisted list of out-dated and cruel "RULES." TY Rabbi Yossi Beilin, I'll vote yachad if you really bring this crucial issue that discriminates and causes pain to so many to the Knesset!!!! G-d Bless You!

The daughters of Zelophad show us the woman as well as the man can inherit. David and Solomon had non-Israelis in their bloodline. DNA is the finder to determine who is an Israeli. The Cohanin have already opened the discussion by touting their lineage thru this means.The only thing left for discussion is where do you draw the line at succesive intermarriages in the background. Torah only suggests the strenght of a bloodline in the negative.The third generation and in one case the tenth.The suggestion is ,however, a good idea of the strenght of a bloodline ,and should be given consideration. Of course, I am only for this after the Torah is firmly established in our national laws.We do not need another 10 or twenty million liberals mocking the very thing that makes us the people that we are.Once the Torah is established and DNA opens the eyes of many to their roots,a population of 100 million is not out of the realm of possibilities.Then we can fill the land from the Euphrates to the red sea,...right now we cannot. Shalom,Caro.

since when did his opinion on the definition of a Jew matter ? According to him Jews were a parasitic plague baccili. That was his defintion OK. No but its funny how Beilin doesnt understand the law of his own country. Maria is a full Israli citizen under the law of return.Oh but those advocating a definition of a Jew a someone who likes bagels should see how "strong" the Jewish community of US is where the numbers keep falling year after year.

What do you mean not kosher enough... not kosher at all!

This actually seems like one of Yossi's saner suggestions. Jewish identity is as much about a legal interpretation (which in the past has changed from patrilineal to matrilinieal descent ) as it is about an individual's sense of who they are. It makes sense to include people who consider themselves Jewish in the Jewish people and recognise both patrilineal and matrilineal descent, particularly for those who want to live in Israel. The problem the orthodox have with this position is nothing to do with halachic rigour (as there must have been a halachic reason why patrilineal descent was the accepted position in the past ) but everything to do with maintaining their position of power. I am shortly moving to Israel and whilst this status issue is irrelevant for myself I know many who have a very strong Jewish identity and yet are told they are not quite good enough and so will never make aliyah. For Kobi talking about Russian goyim just remember that you are very fortunate to have grown up in a country where freedom to practice your Judaism was (clearly) taken for granted. I have far more respect for a Jew from the former Soviet Union who chooses to embrace their heritage and their nation, despite the bigotry they may face than for a Swede who thinks they can judge everyone. Have you considered that it was virtually impossible for Jews in the Soviet Union to practice their religion and pass Judaism from one generation to another? Anyway we've recognised patrilineal descent in the past, e.g. King David, what is the problem to do so again?

I rarely agree with Yossi Beilin. He is right concerning this issue, though. A child of a Jewish father who wants to be Jewish is more Jewish than the one with a Jewish mother and does not care. But we are so few that we need both.

but anyway i would "eat "her

the men will get their knickers all in a twist and respond as if it were a serious matter! ;-) goodness you are all such hypocrites!

The Israeli Law of Return is one thing and Jewish law is another (some say there should be no distinction). Get over it. No matter how much whinning you do, you might be able to change Israeli law, but you will not change Jewish law. I know personally how unfair that may seem, but that is the reality.

The problem is simply that this country is under control by Orthodox Judaism with its traditional intolerance and its specific approach to have " human Kashrut" Being myself from a Jewish father whose family was exterminated in 1942 in Poland, I have been brought up partly in Judaism....but everyone in Israel considers me as non Kosher ! And then indeed, we wonder why the Alyah is trickling.....! I probably know more about Judaism than a lot of Sabras....and possibly a lot of Israelis who have undergone Massoreti education....simply because being an outsider, I had to work harder at understanding what I consider my heritage....and every single bit of Judaism culture is even more important for me !!! ( note well ! I am talking about culture...not religion....as in my opinion religion is a private affair between God and oneself.....!) This copuntry has been too much under the influence of clerics...just like some other countries in the area. We need to grow up if we want to survive....knowing than LESS AND LESS kosher Jews are coming to Israel which as very little to offer in term of prospects ( if it did, why are so many Israelis living abroad, and why do we have more Jews making alyah for the right reason ???)

and convert her to Christianity or Islam if you guys don't want her. What a racist country.......She came from a jewish semen or jewish egg. Maria Marry me and I will make u a queen....

In ancient times when most people lived in small villages everyone knew who a person’s mother was. A woman is pregnant for nine months and she cares for and raises her baby. However no one could be sure who the father was. It was for this reason that the rabbis implemented the principle of matrilineal descent in order to determine Jewish status. The matrilineal principle is not written in the Torah. It is an halachic principle determined by rabbis from the Talmudic period. Because it is halacha we are bound by it. However the rabbis have the power to change halacha. This they have done many times. In my humble opinion is very cruel to shut out people who have a Jewish father but not a Jewish mother. Nevertheless the halacha is important and must be respected. The answer, therefore, is for the rabbis to change this law or at least make halachic conversion easy for these people. The halacha is a means not an end. We must not deify the halacha. The Torah is on earth not in Heaven. The rabbis could fix up this issue easily if they had the courage and the will to do so. We should embrace these people with love and compassion and welcome them into our tribe as full members.

a) I agree on the point that the Law of Return should be changed so that it applies only to those who have at least one parent halachically Jewish. b) This would not change the person's religion, but would filter out those who have no connection to Judaism whatsoever. c) There is a little known "loophole" which many Orthodox Batei-Din follow - namely that if a child of a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother is brought up in a Jewish home (at least a kosher kitchen, Shabbat attendance at synagogue etc) then the child is almost always accepted as a convert and the process is fast-tracked. d) Israel should ammend its citizenship laws so that someone who does not fit in with the Law of Return (as changed) cannot become a citizen of the state even if they were born there. They must have both parents as citizens first. This would make Israel a more Jewish state and stop it from becoming just another country like others which are spirituality-poor.

I would like to suggest that the Yossi Beilin discusses this topic (DNA) with academics who specialise in genetics. He will learn that DNA tests can trace back our origins to before king David's time. One question to Beilin. If one goes by the father and a awoman had a number of men, how could you tell who the father was? But you could alway tell who the mother was. Beilin continues his political dilution approach so evident in his past dealings regarding the future of Israel.

They have been following their husbands to a foreign land, far away from their families, because he and their children were considered Jewish there and persecuted. And now you advocate that those women convert according to the Orthodox dogma for the sole purpose so that their children can be considered Jews in Israel. They were Jews in the old countries and are non-Jews in Israel. Now you are pushing them away with both hands, instead of embracing them. What and incredible irony and hypocrisy on your part-- I am sure you count Bohr and other half-Jews as a Jews when adding those Nobel Prizes, and count Mendelssohn and Offenbach and Mahler Jewish, even though they converted and where actually Christians.

.... A man whose mischuginer "peace plans" have caused an untold amount of Jewish blood to be spilled is now working hard to destroy Jewish neshamos. When does a person cross the line between being a complete idiot and being criminally insane? And, how my dear Yidden, can anyone buy this rubbish?!!! Father is Jewish - Nu? By *Jewish* Law this means absolutely gurnisht. You consider yourself a Yid - do us a favor, do a kosher giyur, accept mitzvos/mikve/bris. Otherwise enjoy a productive life as a Ben/Bat Noach. If it's so important for you to be recognized as Jew - convert. If your Ego is more important, then that's what you'll be left with... All these heart-wrenching stories are meant to impress complete ignoramuses who understand nothing about what it means to be a Jew... All of these complaints about kosher giur being too demanding etc. are based on ruach shtus. – you’re causing incredible damage and disservice to a perfectly fine Goy by proclaiming him a Yid without ensuring that he keeps the mitzvos (or at least understands that he must). It's a crime really - and if the goyim were to find out what these pseudo-conversions meant to them, they would not look at their benefactor, Reb Yossel of Chelm, very favorably. Let Hashem show every lost Yiddische neshamah a way back into Am Yisroel. May Hashem protect them from being confused by “well meaning” and compassionate idiots…

Why does the secular left insist on Jewish continuity? Why is it so important to be the worlds # 1 most hated country and people on this planet. If yossi beilin leaves Israel, and marries a Goy, there is going be no more anti-Semitism in his family, not for his kids, his grand kids. Equality for his offspring’s forever! Judaism has one everlasting truth, which is the Torah, and it will never change, not for convenience, not for politics, not for ones sexual urges, not for nothing!

There was a time 2,000 years ago that millions converted to Judaism. Look at the blue eyes and blond hair of European Jews, the black skin of Ethiopians, etc. There is no need to change Jewish law to accomodate "half-Jews," merely common decency needed to make these conversions as easy as possible. I know orthodox rabbis who perform "pro forma" conversions over adopted children, and even children born of Jewish parents from non-Jewish donors. This should also be the case for those living Jewish lives in Israel.

To 17 Check your history, there was no such thing as “conversion” in those days. Ruth’s statement meant she was willing to be considered as Jewish. In those days the affiliation to a tribe and the Jewish nation for women was automatic and their affiliation was that of their husband. Of special interest is that Moabites were considered as taboo

OK so Apikores beilin, We change the law of return so that millions of russians, africans and g-d knows what stream in... thery get sal klita (3.500$ absorption money) so a county with 1 fifth under poverty level will now dish out at least 50 million dollars. hey no prob! you though the russian soldier who had the swastika was bad ? we will have ten thousand of them! oh wait israel is not a religious state its ummm secular israeli (who are western wanabee's) state.

i know you can make your alya if just your father is jewish and your mother christian but i would like to know if you are considered as a jew by the israeli law , for example for the census or identity card . thanks a lot for an answer

Thank you for articulating so clearly the problem and the pain it causes. There is no excuse for treating people so hurtfully.

The non-Orthodox Jewish community comprises three streams in Britain:: Masorti, Reform and Libeal Judaism. Reform in Britain is somewhat more alligned to Masorti than its American and Israeli namesakes and whereas it is possible effectively to make an Halachic conversion to Judaism via the Batei Din of Masorti and Reform, both require matrilineal descent or conversion and both do not recognize patrilineal Jews. Furthermore, and more importantly, those Jews of matrilineal descent but who have been baptized in infancy and have subsequently practiced as Christians - or any other religion - require conversion. So much for Halacha. Liberal Judaism - more or less the extreme progressive element of North American Reform - does not pretend to Halachic requirements and all observance is deemed to be a question of individual choosing and conscience - including brit milah and mkveh for converts. Liberal Judaism will recognize patrilineal descent where a child has not been raised in or practiced another religion. And so, a friend of mine, steeped in a Jewish tradition inherited from her father but baptized and raised in the traditions of her Catholic mother, has offiicially to convert - whether with mikveh or not, I do not know. She is culturally Jewish but falls by the wayside through a decision made for her at birth, over which she had no control. All well and good. In her congregation is a young man of matrilineal descent, whose mother married an Anglican. He was baptized, served as a chorister in an Anglican cathedral, and was not circumcised at birth and has no intention of having a brit milah in later life. He is clearly of Anglican Christian culture but, because of his matrilineal descent and an act of affirmation, he is regarded as fully Jewish. Despite the utter muddle that Liberal Judaism produces here, the joke, of course, remains that for the Orthodox, he is regarded as fully Jewish, too - although an Orthodox (and certainly a Masorti and Reform) rabbi would surely ensure that he had his brit milah and used the mikveh bedore being allowed to make an aliyah - or lead services, as occasionally he does. On top of this, we have recently had the controversial ruling of the United Synagogues' Beth Din in refusing to recognize a gentile conversion made by the Sephardic Beth Din of Israel, on the grounds of discontinued or insufficient subsequent observance., despite the fact that most Israelis - as this female convert now also is as a result of a marriage contracted in Israel to an Israeli - although nominally Orthodox, are probably less observant than Reform Jews in Britain. We have to decide if Halacha is all-important or whether culture should determine what constitutes a Jew. The sufferings of patrilneal Jews who do aspire to Jewish practice and observance are very real. At one and the same time, the obstinacy of radicalized Orthodox Judaism toward the question is itself bordering on a breach of Halacha, whilst the ignorance and secular, political agenda of Liberal Judaism makes a mockery even of Jewish culture. The Law of Return more or less reflects the Nuremburg Laws - and Hitler and the Nazis could not have cared what stream of Judaism their victims followed. Indeed, some Reform converts perished in the camps and their names are recorded a Yad Vashem - despite the fact that the Batei Din of Israel do not officially acknowledge their Jewish status even in death. The answer surely lies in a compromise that limits the increasing and unnecessary Halachic stringency of modern Orthodoxy that, in Israel, lords it over an increasingly secular and non-observant population, and a progressive Judaism that puts (leftwing) politics before cultural consensus.