News
London mayor: Israel caused bloodshed
Leslie Bunder
Published: 17.11.05, 00:05
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
73 Talkbacks for this article
31. Why Mr. Livingstone is anti-Jewish/Israel
Aharon   (11.17.05)
A person, who thinks the historic right of of the Jewish people to return to its homeland is questionable, is definitely not a supporter of Israel's existence. Also, his accusation that Israel's government is totally responsible for the bloodshed in the Middle East shows his hypocritic approach to this place's history. Mr. Livingsoten's can say a hundred times he is not anti-Israel or anti-Jewish, but his sporadic tongue slips expose his real thoughts. Oliver Feingold, the "Evening Standard" reporter is a good example in this respect. He is not a member of Israel's government, but still, Mr. Livingstone didn't find it was wrong to call him "Kapu" (a Nazi camp guard). Saying today that you're anti-Jewish or anti-Israel is considered politically incorrect, but Mr. Livingstone thinks people are fool. Israel's government is not immune from criticism, but there are red lines that seperate between legitimate criticism and hatred. And one who thinks Israel's exitence is questionable is anti-Jewish. Period.
32. Interesting...
Matthias ,   Switzerland   (11.17.05)
... that a leftist like Livingstone says something like the following: "This government is the worst Israel has ever had – there was a chance of peace but Sharon has relentlessly ground down everybody else." At least this government did, by destroying communities and expelling Jews, exactly that what people like 'Red Ken' are demanding. But their hatred towards Israel as that great that they do not want to see that it is Israel that has contributed more to promoting peace than any other Arab country, including the Palestinians. And he doesn't even want to recognize the great sacrifice Israel made by expelling its own citizens.
33. The truth about Jewish voters in London
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (11.17.05)
I was a Jewish voter in London and can explain why many Jews voted for Ken then BUT WOULDN'T vote for him again. Ken you lying ben zonah you know damn well that the Jewish community would vote you out in a second if there was an election tomorrow. Don't forget people that we voted for Ken BEFORE he said all that crap to the Jewish reporter. And before he invited Sheikh Qaradawi and before he had newspaper interviews accusing Israel of this and that. Ken "Benzonah" Livingstone has LIED to Jewish Londoners and we are all really angry about that. This man has cynically used us Jewish Londoners for his own gain and that is yet another reason why I have made aliyah and want no part of being a Londoner. Ken may you rot in hell.
34. Livingstone, I presume
Mark Cohen ,   Israel   (11.17.05)
Why doesn't somebody tell him that in terms of Jewish history, he is a total irrelevancy?
35. Peggi-with-an-i
Sivan ,   Israel   (11.17.05)
You really are stupid. Are you in France this morning. Will you be in the UK this afternoon, back in France again in the evening, over to the UK again tomorrow morning, back to France again in the afternoon, etc., etc.,
36. to Daisy,,,,,,,,,,
Abraham ,   Morocco   (11.17.05)
Idiotic Ramzi can write as much as he wants,,,,but as a pure arab that he is...watever he writes is BS,,,+ actually most of wat a lot of arabs say is simply crap,,and the best thing is to ignore them and just let them speak like idiots,,,afterall,,the best thing arabs can do is THREAT other ppl
37. Ramzi's a decent guy
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (11.17.05)
And I wont have anyone say otherwise. he's probably a hell of a lot more clued up than most idiots that post here. My position is pro-Israel and there's things that Ramzi writes that i dont neccessarily agree with. But he's got some great ideas about peace which he doesn't say here. Time to listen to people more and stop writing people off just because they are arab or jew or whatever.
38. Daisy again
(11.17.05)
i told many times before that every day you prove more that you are not mor than an ignorant hatress .. and again i ask to write about donald duck , this will better for every one
39. Hi guys, did u miss me?
Sam ,   Alquds, Palestine   (11.17.05)
You sure did, well some of you like crazy daisy probably hates to see me post anything here, but in any case, there is one point which makes me really wonder: Zionists and their lobbies all around the world throw this anti-semite accusation on anyone that says anything condemning Israel and its policies, even when it's right. Do the people who use this accusation know what anti-semitism really is? From my experience, i do not think so. I hope someone of you, who use it more than they use toothpaste clarifies to all of us what it means, and we can discuss it later.
40. Livingstone's true feelings about Israel
Jonathan ,   London   (11.17.05)
In response to the question "So you’re not anti-Israel as such?" Livingstone says "No, I enjoyed Israel immensely." He is LYING about his true feelings. I met him in Finchley before the last mayoral election. He told me Israel should never have been created.
41. Daisy, you do not know what you're talking about!
WH ,   UK   (11.17.05)
What I noticed on ynetnews.com is that it is full of people who keep repeating themselves with no evidences. Silly arguments and absolute lies are being used as supporting evidences. Things like, go to hell, ben zona (son of prostitue as translated), son of a bitch, scumbags, etc of the self-degrading vocabulary is all what those people who hate the other use. There a million comment on the lies being said here by people like daisy, these unnamed people. But I just know it does not lead to anywhere to write to such mentality. They are blinded, blocked, and unwilling to listen. Israel lives on at least 90% of the land. Nuclear power that uses excessive power against Civilians. Killed thousands of children according to Red Cross. Palestinians quite wrongly blow civilian israelis out of ignorance, despair, and lostness of everything. Let's call all the palestinians and arabs terrorist, and what have you. Let's call all israelis occupiers, racists and new nazists. Did it help Israel? Does it help Palestinians! what a mess!! you guys who are unwilling to accept the other, listen, and discuss with respect, and love are pathetic. I am just as Mr. Ken, very pessimestic!
42. Sam you wanna bet money?
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (11.17.05)
I can see where you're coming from but I am willing to bet as much money as you want that the term "anti-semitism" = anti-jewish and nothing else. it seems that your sole purpose on web sites like these (and others since you know so much about "Zionist lobbys" around the world) is to be smug and try and annoy people. I suppose according to you that Jews always lie about anti-semitism?
43. LIAR! THERE NEVER WAS AN ARAB COUNTRY OF PALESTINE
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (11.17.05)
Terrorist lover, Livingstone, BLAMES INNOCENTS instead of murderers. G-D commanded: "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER" Global jihad is empowered as Islamofascists receive amazing help in the jihad against Israel from the international community. The entire world will pay the price of an Islamic terror state in Israel. THERE NEVER WAS AN ARAB COUNTRY OF PALESTINE. Jerusalem was NEVER the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 800 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, not once in the Koran. Around 1948, Arabs violently ETHNICALLY CLEANSED about one million Jews from Arab countries. Arab governments seized the land, homes, bank accounts, businesses and assets of the Jews. Most of the Jewish refugees fled to Israel. THERE MUST NOW BE A JUST SETTLEMENT FOR THE JEWISH REFUGEES AND THEIR DESCENDANTS-COMPENSATION IN LAND AND FINANCES. In 1922, Britain illegally gave MOST OF PALESTINE-80% TO THE ARABS. The area became Jordan, giving the Arabs an Arab Palestinian state on JEWISH land. IT WAS ETHNICALLY CLEANSED OF JEWS. This area is part of ancient, Biblical Israel, and along with present-day Israel, including Judea, Samaria, Gaza and the Golan was recognized by the League of Nations as the Jewish homeland. In 1948, Egypt invaded Gaza and ethnically cleansed ALL Jews. In 1948, Jordan invaded Judea-Samaria (West Bank) and east Jerusalem and ETHNICALLY CLEANSED ALL JEWS. Jordan, opposing G-D DESTROYED 58 synagogues in Jerusalem. In 1967 when Israel won Islam's religious war of aggression against it, Jews returned to the areas of their homeland they had been ethnically cleansed from for 19 years. Islamofascists DECEITFULLY call this return "occupation". Under international law, territories are considered "occupied" only when taken in an act of aggression which does not apply to Israel. Judea, Samaria and Gaza are not 'occupied territories' according to international law because they were not taken from any foreign sovereign. ALL of the Jewish land, homes, properties and businesses stolen from the Jews in the 1948 Islamic invasion must be returned to the Jews IMMEDIATELY
44. Linda Rivera
(11.17.05)
we are fed up from you repeating the same things all the time , there was never a land called Israel too but there was people living on this land no matter who they are Jews , Christians or Muslims and the facts is that another people came from many countries they have nothing to do together more than they all Jewish and stolen this land from those who lived on it that it .... and you are not a real Christian like you allways say ... because you do nothing from what Jesus told us to do like love eachother , love your enemies and so ... you are a fake Christian brainwashed Jewish agent ... and idiot
45. 44 is right! Linda enough.
A passing Jew ,   Tel Aviv   (11.17.05)
46. #44 Keep on speaking the truth!#43,45
MARK ,   USA   (11.17.05)
You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Continue repeating the truth. Thank You Linda!!! We need more people like you in this world. Many thanks.
47. Apply Livingstone's logic on Europe and the Arab world
Daniel Krygier ,   Copenhagen, Denmark   (11.17.05)
Let the progessive Europeans and Arabs discuss what right the UK, France, Sweden, Germany, Syria or Saudi Arabia has to exist before they bother the rest of the world with their "liberal" theories. Livingstone should refine his propaganda skills at home and convince his countrymen that advocating the destruction of the UK doesn't mean that you are anti-British. In case Livingstone fails in the UK, I'm sure that the progessive Mullah regime in Iran has secured a position for him as a mouthpiece for the Teheran-government.
48. Livingstone
H.L. Tobin ,   Barnet UK   (11.17.05)
When will you realise this man is dangerous. Don`t think people in the Uk don`t take notice of what he says. He comes across as a clown but he isn`t. He can`t get his own town right but insists on rewriting Israel`s history. Unfortunately he still has a long time in office and we will see a lot more of his anti Israel rantings. All I can say when the time comes for the next Mayoral elections DO NOT VOTE FOR THIS MAN!!!!!!!
49. 44 right on point! Lindah! put a sock in it!!
(11.17.05)
50. Hii Giiil!!!
Sam ,   Alquds, Palestine   (11.17.05)
Hello there Gil. So you decided to come out and speak. Gooood! I wonder though, I read your comments and I didn't find anything there answering my question. What is anti-semitism. When you are anti something then you are against it and what it stands for, simple english. I hope you agree with me on that one. That being settled, we go to the other half of the puzzle, i.e. semitism. Semite people are people who go back in their family tree to Sam, the son of Noah, who had in addition to Sam other sons, like Ham and Yafeth, and others I suppose, and those sons were mentioned in many religious scriptures, and the Torah agrees to that. If we agree that the Hebrews are the sons of Abraham, and that Abraham stems from Sam ben Noah, and if we hypothetically agree that ALL the jews of today, including people who are apparently Black africans, Indians or white russians (wonder how the theory of pure blood stands through this test) are the descendents of Abraham, and semite, stemming from the Semite family tree, who else is Semite in this world? What is the criterion to decide that? I guess similar origins, language family, ethnic roots would be good enough. What are the semite languages which are living today. If you go to any encyclopaedia and check the semite languages there, you would find out that most of these languages are dead now, except for a couple of villagers in Syria who still speak Aramaic, a couple of Assyrians in northern Iraq who still speak Assyrian, and a couple of Suryoyo in bethlehem who still speak syriac (Palestinian version of Assyrian), and even modern Hebrew was invented based on the Goethe model sometime in the 19th century. Yidish doesn't even count since it is not a Semite language but rather is a mixture of many languages. What are we left with? Yes, you got that right, Arabic. I'm not gonna go with you into a language discussion because some linguistics even consider hebrew as an arabic dialect, since the words 'ebri and 'arabi have the same meaning in semite languages stemming from the root 'abara, 'araba. Semite languages are languages which stress the root for extracting nouns and verbs you know, or maybe you don't know, but that would harm your wish to have nothing to do with the arabs, I understand that. I think they feel the same way too, but wishes don't count here. The simple question at the end is, why should this expression be a unique thing related to today's jews only, and why should they be allowed to use this "fatal" weapon exclusively? I think the arabs are entitled to use this "weapon" as well, not to mention the absurdity of calling arabs or anti Israeli jews anti-semitic, don't you agree? I guess not. Waiting for your answer which will sure come, but do me a favor, read a bit before you answer.
51. Livingstone Interview
David ,   London, UK   (11.17.05)
Why bother giving this "Dyed-in-the-Red" ex Militant (Communist faction of the old Labour Party) a platform? Why should aJewish Newspaper find an affirmed anti- Israel autocrat an opportunity to sound off? Aren't there any bettere deservcing people deserving of the right to air their views available?
52. "Some of My Best Friends Are..."
Arik Silverman ,   Milwaukee USA   (11.17.05)
I haven't read the whole article yet, but my attention was immediately drawn to this question: Did you have Jewish friends as a child? Now I don't know why the inteviewer was asked that or why or what either his "yes" or a "no" would be expected to prove. But this question did evoke Hitler's Mein Kampf. In that book Hitler says he went to school with a Jewish boy and that at the time, he thought of Jews as Germans who were unjustly persecuted for their Jewish religion. So what can interviewers hope to achieve by questions of this kind? If they're looking under the bed for anti-Semites, this is obviously not the kind of question to ask.
53. England's Arafat
Lior ,   London   (11.17.05)
In the 1980s, Ken Livingstone courted the IRA during their 30 year terrorist campaign against the "mainland". The links between the IRA and "Palestinian" terrorists are well-known. Since election as London's mayor, he has courted extreemist Islamicists who preach death and hatred toward Israel and the Jews. The reason that no-one particularly commented on his call for the Saudi royal family to swing from lamp posts was the fact that London doesn't have 200,000 members of the Saudi royal family living in it - about the number of London's Jews and about the same number of the members of the Saudi royal family. What do you call the Saudi Embassy in London after a drinking party? Wal to wall princes. Ken Livingstone is the terrorists' apologist. He has aided and abetted terrorism in London for over 30 years. He is partly to blame for the bombings on July 7th. He is an unreconstructed anti-Semite and should be hauled before a court of law. And Salameh, could you answer one question for me, please, seeing that you possess a computer, have access to electricity and the internet and have clearly had sufficient education to learn proficient English, all on my taxes to give you endless packages of aid? Where, oh where are Arafat's billions of fraudulently sequestered money? You see, I'm going to find it hard to meet my heating bills this winter and I just thought if you could get your hands on some of it, I could have a refund. So, could you possibly get off your lardbutt and look under a few matresses in the Gaza for me? I'd be so grateful.
54. # 40 and so says many, many devout jews>
(11.17.05)
55. sam-
(11.17.05)
the name calling jews who try to ruin people by saying they are anti-semitic(,or self loathing if you are a jew)- is NOT working anymore- like the boy who cried wolf- like the jew who called anti-semitic-
56. He's just an ignorant blowharded bigot
Drumgoole ,   Newark, New Jersey   (11.17.05)
This article captures the essence of Ken Livingstone in that his own words portray him as a stupid, lying,intolerant bigot and hypocrite. First, because he is an atheist, he refers to faith and religion as mumbo-jumbo. How nice he has set himself up as a final authority what spirituality. Second, his description of Israel being 50% for peace and 50% for expelling the Arabs is nothing but a pathological lie. What poll is he referring to? Is it the poll in his own sick mind? Because there has never been poll results like that anywhere. In fact, the vast majority of Israeli Jews would leap at a chance for peace if they were convinced that the Palestinians were serious about stopping the terrorist hordes in their midst. Notice, this horrible person never mentions the hugely significant numbers of Muslims and especially Palestinians who approve of the suicide bombings against Jewish Israelis and never crioticized the barbarism of the Daniel Pearl beheadings---0nly making up the results of a poll that has never taken place. Sort of like a country that has a significiant Arab population, like Israel, and Arab nations that effectively do not allow any expression of Judaism or Christianity. Livingstone's hypocrisy also extends to his description of his experience with Israelis. Like the true anti-semite he is, he refers to Jews who are the good Jews that hold his point of view. Thus, he only considers the opinions of self-hating and extremist Jews on the leftist fringe---not the average, hardworking Israeli who wants nothing more than a peaceful resolution. His description of the occupation is also an study in close-mindedness and ignorance. There would have been no occupation after the 6 Day War if Jordan, after being begged not to, hadn't attacked Israel. In fact, therew wouldn't have been a 6 Day War if Egypt hadn't massed over 100,000 troops on Israel's border, asked the UN peacekeepers to leave, and blockade the Straits of Tiran. In addition, there would have been no refugee problemto begin with if the Arabs had accepted the UN partition plan in 1947 and not invaded the newly-declared Israel in 1948. During the rime immediately preceding Israel's declaration of Statehood, his British relatives had Jewish refugees put into concentration camps on Cyprus and near Haifa--the Atlit camp. But facts mean nothjing to this pathetic and developmentally arrested idealogue and misfit. If what he says about the Jews of London supporting him is true, I seriously doubt that the Jewish community of London has a collective IQ over 100.
57. Sooner than later........
NS ,   Long Island, NY   (11.17.05)
Sooner than later Mayor Livingstone is going to show up in New York City (since he has no reason to go to "occupied Palestine" known to the rest of the world as Israel), here the home of the largest diaspora Jewish Community in the world as well as the home of the largest terrorist attack in the West will give him the welcome that he truly deserves.
58. Hi Sam
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (11.17.05)
Well i got about halfway through your drivel before i actually got bored. So lets make it nice and simple shall we Sam? The question you originally asked was "does anyone know what anti-semtism" is. Well Sam, this term is defined as meaning "anti-Jewish". That's the simple answer and I guarantee that if you check any modern English dictionary, then it will confirm that for you. Sam, The word antisemitic (antisemitisch in German) was probably first used in 1860 by the Jewish scholar Moritz Steinschneider in the phrase "antisemitic prejudices" (German: "antisemitische Vorurteile"). Steinschneider used this phrase to characterize Ernest Renan's ideas about how "Semitic races" were inferior to "Aryan races." Do enjoy your evening Sam.
59. Gil my man
Sam ,   Alquds, Palestine   (11.18.05)
Gil, I'll make a few remarks for the funny postings here and then I'll get back to you. #55, I really read your comments many times and tried to make something out of them but I really couldn't, maybe you can say it in other words. Mr. NS from Long Island, I don't know if you know it, but NS is not the right name to call yourself, try figuring that out, if you can't I might give you more hints. Gil my friend. The point I tried to make is clearly made by you, thank you very much, indeed! I suggest from now on, when you try to threaten someone or scare them off, you use the expression anti-jewish, because anti-semite does not apply. Antisemitisch being used first in order to describe a phenomenon taking place in Europe, where the only semite population at the time were the jews, does not mean that the jews have a trade mark right for the name or an exclusive right to its use. But this is not the main issue here. The main issue here is that this expression is being used by ignorant zionists who think that it is a very useful way of scaring people off without even knowing what it means, and who is semite and who is not. You cannot use this expression against me for instance, because I am more semite than you are! I know that my family has no Kazar, Kushi, Celtic, Saxon, or Slav blood in their bloodstream, and yet some semi-literate people here called me many times anti-semite! I am not even close to being anti-jewish, because I know what the difference between a religion and a nationality is, the difference which Israeli zionists don't seem to understand, and I have plenty of jewish friends all around the world, but I am anti-zionist, because I think Zionism is just a fascist idea made up by some central european snobbish intellectuals, who happened to be jews, and used religion as a means to achieve their goals. Hope you read my posting till the end this time.
60. Sam
Gil ,   Tel Aviv   (11.18.05)
I think I understand your position but do not agree or accept it on the basis of what you have explained. First you ask the meaning of anti-semitism. The official meaning of that term, not the specific meaning of the words themselves but the term, is anti-Jewish. That's a fact. Yes you are semitic and yes so am I. Why for example, you think that you are more semitic than I or than the average Jewish person is interesting. Because, assuming that you are Palestinian, Palestinians are made up of a variety of different blood types including The Crusaders who pretty much rampaged through ancient Palestine and raped many of the women. For all you know many of your ancestors could be white, anglo saxons (since they crusaded for some time its possible that more than one of your female ancestors was raped by Europeans). Go ahead and take a dna test if you want, its very possible that what i say is quite true. That is considering that your ancestors actually come from this part of the world at all. Ancient Judea and then Palestinae - as it was renamed by the Romans became a desolate place hardly populated at all and mainly occupied by bands of roaming thieves and nomads. There were so many different Arabs and tribes, Jews, Africans, Christians and Bedouins roaming through this part of the world, its impossible that very many of todays Palestinians can trace their heritage back to this direct spot. It would have been way too hostile for them to have managed to survive here. For you to say that some of your best friends are Jewish. Sam, please! This has got to be the oldest joke in the book which is matched by those other classic lines for example "the cheque is in the post" and "i'll just put it in a little bit... and if it hurts, i'll take it out". As for Zionism, its an old fashioned term. I am pro-Israel. I love Israel. I know its my home and I know 100% that I belong here. Call it what you want my friend. If I have to fight you to stay here then let the battle commence.
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article