Some years ago near Ramallah I covered fighting between Israeli's and Palestininian's during the ensuing stand off I was injured either by a border police projectile or by a stone thrown by Palestinian's .Even though I was able to evacuate myself the Palestinians brought a stretcher and tried to force me to get on it , which they were about to film. I later filmed uninjured Palestinian's being put on stretchers and taken to waiting ambulances. If the German papers version of the story is viable its obvious that this is just another 'dirty trick' being used in an extremely dirty Palestinian PR campaign to discredit Israel. Unfortunately nobody asks questions when confronted by horrific images conveyed to the worlds TV screens but Israel might as well shoot itself in the foot for the terrible and almost non-existent PR campaign that it runs.

Thank G-D for the German newspaper that has the decency and humanity to publish the truth. Muslim human bomb killers slaughtered such huge numbers of Jewish innocents, the IDF were forced to search for the terrorists in Jenin. 52 Islamists were killed by the IDF. The PA falsely reported to world media that the IDF had killed 1,500 PA Muslims. The anti-Jew world media did not concern themselves to investigate if the false, venomous, slanderous, Jew-hating Jenin report was true. Israel was blasted and condemned around the world. Once again, with the full cooperation of a Jew-hostile world media, the Islamists scored a victory based totally on lies and deception-taqiyya.

And you call G-D's decisions illegal???

A: That’s because they are not paramedics, stupid. Do Israeli policemenBesides, the papers’ readiness to suppose that any man with a beard must be a Hammas member is rather fishy. Even so, they could be policemen (the beard was once again allowed for Palestinian police members briefly before the election), and even if they are Hammas members, so what? Hammas is the legitimate authority in Gaza, they are perfectly within their rights to be there. Another (astounding) option is that they are merely eyewitnesses. Hamas members grow a short beard in the spirit of the grand terrorist Izz a-din al Qassam, this isnt "Some beard", it's their trademark and recognizing sign (think street gangs). A: If anyone can refer me to such claims by such eyewitnesses I would be delighted, since I’m pretty sure the German paper made it up. You clearly see Hamasniks in the video picking up evidence and putting them in a black plastic bag, including what looks like a lid of an anti tank mine. A: This is not his function. His function as cameraman and journalist is to document facts and distribute it. I think we can all agree that the uproar that his images have created are of much better service to Hadil and her late family than a hug or a pat on the head. Do you see CNN camermen in Iraq or in Israel going about offering candies to weeping soldiers and civilians? That’s not their job. OK then, this doesnt mean much, but if you think that showing dead people on video does them good service then you are somewhat sadistic. A: Now that’s plain evil, condescending and morose (particularly that nasty sarcasm). The question of whether she asked him to film or not itself is dumb – the footage clearly shows the girl staring wide-eyed at the camera, screaming “Film!! Film!!!!”. Generations of Palestinians had been raised on the awareness of the importance that rapid and public documentation have in prosecuting war crimes, they learned it from years and years of bitter experience with us Isralies. What? Generations of Palestinians were raised on lies distortion and propoganda, they learned that the world will forever be on their side if they film their lies, see Muhammad a-Dura, Jenin "Masacre" funeral with living bodies, many more. But even if you ignore that – hell, if MY family had been murdered by a state, I would MAKE SURE that every detail of the scene is captured on video, stills, you name it. I would hold back my tears for later and go fetch a stills and a video camera myself if necessary, document every little bit of it and then try to distribute it as wide as possible, because there is nothing better than I can to for my family and my society in such a situation, and I would welcome with open arms any people of the media at the scene. I think the girl deserves a solemn salute for realizing that, despite the panic and the shock, and I hope I would have had the guts to do the same. You are just a plain liar now, a 9 year old girl looses her entier family and she is brave for acting infront of the camera? Doesnt this show a sick society rather than bravery? Documenting death and murder, dipping hands in the blood of your family members marking V with your fingers and screaming itbach al Yahud? You have a very wierd defenition of bravery there.

Hoolywood? http://www.seconddraft.org/movies.php

don't forget that jesus was a jew originally. if the land is actually arab, then howcome it never had an arabian name in history? its been known as mandate all along. british mandate, turkish, ottaman the list goes on, but no arab. and for your knowledge the word palestine means invaders who just settle in w/o rights (squatters).

EASY BOOTY israelnationalnews.com Hamas: ´No Peace, Ever, Without Return of Millions of Arabs´ May 16, '06 by Hillel Fendel ...the claim that the Arabs were cruelly thrown out of their homes by Israel in 1948 - when in fact the largest number of Arab refugees fled only at the urging of their own leaders, who promised them a swift victory over the fledgling Jewish state and a quick return to their homes. For instance: * Arab League Secretary-General Habib Issa said in June 1951 that his predecessor Azzam Pasha had "assured the Arab peoples that the occupation of Palestine and of Tel Aviv would be as simple as a military promenade ... and that all the millions the Jews had spent on land and economic development would be easy booty, for it would be a simple matter to throw Jews into the Mediterranean ... " * In addition, the Research Group for European Migration Problems found in 1957 that "as early as the first months of 1948, the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes ... and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property." * Abu Mazen himself - now the chairman of the Palestinian Authority - wrote in 1976, "The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable." * Monsignor George Hakim, the Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, said in 1949 that the Arabs of Haifa "fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities guaranteed their safety and rights as citizens of Israel." * Even a British police commander in Haifa said in April 1948, "Every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe."... * http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=103708

i believe that the "small" jewish kingdom was around for at least 1000 years+, minus 70 years of exile. besides i'm not asking for sympathy, but if the have the right to claim it back, than so do we. i wouldn't bleed my heart out for any refugees who were expelled only after killing off thousands of jews when their mandate government (non-arab) gave them weapons and training.

Remember Mohammed el-Dura the boy supposedly killed by Israeli fire during crossfire between IDF forces and the 'pals?' Well, that was also proven - and by Germany! - to be a set up. These people are so very good at manipulating and telling lies. But the truth will come out - as it always does - that these people are liars and their only motive is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. THEY DO NOT DESERVE A STATE! There is no such thing as a palestinian - say it again and again and again.

Arabs left voluntarily! Fully documented in book, "From Time Immemorial" by Joan Peters: In 1948, Arabs were told to leave by Arab leaders while the invading Arab armies would "purge the land of Jews." The Jewish Haifa Workers' Council issued an appeal to the Arab residents of Haifa: "For years we have lived together in our city, Haifa...Do not fear: Do not destroy your homes with your own hands...do not bring upon yourself tragedy by unnecessary evacuation and self-imposed burdens...But in this city, yours and ours, Haifa, the gates are open for work, for life and for peace for you and your families..."

The Jews need to stop moving forward with their lives until the arabs are ready to make peace with them. It has only been about a hundred years already, so just be patient a little while longer, I'm sure an arab leader will arise that is ready to compromise with you within the next 200 years. So in the meantime, stop living your lives and building and creating. It is only right for you to wait for the arabs to catch up.

LYING. YOU HAVE A SERIOUS READING COMPREHENSION PROBLEMS, NOT TO MENTION THE BS THAT YOU ADD YOURSELF W/O ANY SHRED OF KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THINGS WERE.

what more simple than that. You Palis care more to tell lie than really do something to prevent innocent people from hurting.

From the beginning Israel claimed that they fired 250m away from the place where this family was. You are claiming that the german newspaper is funny since they can recognize the man through a sheet, but apparently you have some Xray sight or some super hero sight, that you can see through the footage which fabric the girl's cloths are made from. I suggest you to stick to the facts and not some fiction.

the palis are looking to change the subject of their lies before they think anyone notices!.

At the beginning of the anarchy the palis call the intifada, they claimed the IDF killed a "poor innocent little boy cowering behind his father" until the TRUTH was shown that the palis willfully killed the kid for publicity. When the TRUTH came out, they quickly changed the topic in the hope no one noticed their deceit. WE NOTICED!

A: That’s interesting. I thought the IDF denied firing at the beach altogether? So where are the craters from? Or they did fire at the beach? Furthermore, 250 meters on a hilly terrain is quite a lot. Explosions rock Gaza all the time. Another option, if we believe all of the information from the IDF, is to conclude that these were old craters which had nothing to do with that attack. I dont know if you've ever came under artillery (rockets mortars) but the first reaction a normal human being without any death wish is to run under cover and hide until it's over. A: First of all, the footage has been edited for transmission, and as someone who works in the media I can tell you that such footage (battles etc) is rarely edited with much attention to the chronological sequence. We’ll have to see the original to decide, but even if we take the footage as it is, the explanation is very simple – there is no road close to the beech, you can see paramedics running to and fro between the carnage and the ambulances. How about this for a sequence – Irbad arrives at the scene with the paramedics, they cover the dead and take some of the wounded, he starts shooting about the same time, and then the paramedics return again. This makes no sense, you can clearly see the cameraman running to beach and only later do the paramedics come to treat the wounded, and later an abmulance drives right up to the scene, so your "No road" explanation is kind of wrong. A: Most girls in Gaza bathe fully clothed, for reasons of chastity (just like our orthodox girls). Furthermore, this German report and YNET’s reiteration of it are the only reports which say that the girl was in the water. All other reports state she was running about on the dunes when it happened. Even if she did go into the water, though, anyone who’d been to a beach in Israel knows how quickly clothes dry up, especially if they are synthetic (like the girl’s), and we can allow for anything between 15 minutes and half an hour of her running between the bodies of her family, and any time at all of her being out of the water before that attack. Even 15 minutes of rapid motion are enough to dry up such tiny clothes. Who are you trying to fool, clothes soaked in water after an hour or so of swimming do not dry up in 15 minutes and no even in one hour, especially since the time is over the sun peak (around 5). A: At least the English editor of YNET has the decency to distance himself from such nonsense (“the newspaper said”), but it’s still unclear to me why it reprints such balderdash. To the point, though – the original German report said that “The man carrying a rifle is first seen standing next to the body of Hadil’s father, and in later frames he is lying on the ground, covered with a sheet”. I have to hand it to German technology – it’s amazing. How did they manage to recognize a man seen briefly in a smudgy frame in yet another smudgy frame, _under a sheet_? They should work for David Copperfield, I tell you. Simple, there is a man with a gun, and no man on the ground, and two minutes later there is no man with a gun and man on the ground, did the evil Zionist soldiers manage to kill another civilian and stick him in the beach in those two minutes without anyone noticing? Conclusion, you're trying to cover up Palestinian direction screw ups with unrelated nonsense, demagogy, and lies.

Horse: Hamas members grow a short beard in the spirit of the grand terrorist Izz a-din al Qassam, this isnt "Some beard", it's their trademark and recognizing sign (think street gangs). Reider: Okay, thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware of that - on the other hand, I'm sure that it's not as strict as street gangs, and not anyone with a short beard is a Hammas member. By the way,how is Qassam different from Begin is a mystery to me, but I'm willing to accept they were both "grand terrorists". I think we should apply the same moralisms to both sides, if at al, don't you? Horse: You clearly see Hamasniks in the video picking up evidence and putting them in a black plastic bag, including what looks like a lid of an anti tank mine. Reider: As Human Rights Watch rather reasoanbly suggest, if it was a mine than there would have been a lot of leg injuries. In the footage the wounds are head and torso wounds. Horse: OK then, this doesnt mean much, but if you think that showing dead people on video does them good service then you are somewhat sadistic. Reider: Just being reasonable, really. They are dead - they have been murdered (lets say even that the identity of the perpetrators is unclear). The one thing we can do for them is prompt full, international, unbiased investigation by an outside body (just as we wouldn't let Serbs scrutinize Sreberinca). This is only achieved by sensationalism, since there have been many similar cases that were not prosecuted with as much vigour (i.e. the death of a girl who's house collapsed on her after being hit by an artillery shell, also in Gaza, two months ago). What? Generations of Palestinians were raised on lies distortion and propoganda, they learned that the world will forever be on their side if they film their lies, see Muhammad a-Dura, Jenin "Masacre" funeral with living bodies, many more. I wholly agree that lies and inaccuracies shame the Palestinians, but the occupation is stil there, the water control is there, the racist premises of the State of Israel which make the very existence of Palestinians a problem are still there. Even if 30% of Israeli violence against Palestinians had been staged, there is still the 70% to account for, and it still doesn't paint a pretty picture. Besides, Israel can lie just as good if not better - see the Naamati shooting, the girl-in-Rafah shooting, several scores of massacres during 1948-1956, etc etc. Horse: You are just a plain liar now, a 9 year old girl looses her entier family and she is brave for acting infront of the camera? Doesnt this show a sick society rather than bravery? Documenting death and murder, dipping hands in the blood of your family members marking V with your fingers and screaming itbach al Yahud? You have a very wierd defenition of bravery there. Reider: I didn't say that she was brave for acting, I'm saying she was brave for not shunning the camera being commited to bring whoever killed her family to justice. She didn't dip any hands in any blood and didn't shout itbach al yahud, you somehow manage to confuse her with the Ramallah lynch scenes. Of course it's a sick society, any society embedded in conflict is a sick society, including our own. This doesn't exclude the possibility for bravery. Last but not least, let me try and get the whole picture here as you see it. Do you say that the carnage was staged and that the girl was acting? Who were the wounded the IDF was so proud of treating in Israeli hospitals, then? Or are you saying that the carnage was real, but perpetrated by the Hammas? Why did she need to pretend then? Forgive me when I say that at least by comparison, the Palestinian version of this event sound infinitely more credible and consistent than that of their detractors.

1000 years is a wee bit too much, but even so, it was a loose alliance of monotheistic tribes, often at war with each other. British government trained Jews, not Arabs, see Wingate. Collective punishment is stupid anyhow. Anyway, since we all are returning refugees etc etc, how about we all live here as a binational state, rather than assert our equally viable rights through blood and murder?

again and again-- just like they lied about the """jenin massacare""", just like they lied about "mohamed al dura""", so they lie and fabricate everything they can to blame israel. the bottom line-- arabs lie!!!

Reider: Okay, thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware of that - on the other hand, I'm sure that it's not as strict as street gangs, and not anyone with a short beard is a Hammas member. By the way,how is Qassam different from Begin is a mystery to me, but I'm willing to accept they were both "grand terrorists". I think we should apply the same moralisms to both sides, if at al, don't you? If you want to see the difference you will, if you dont you wont, you dont. Reider: As Human Rights Watch rather reasoanbly suggest, if it was a mine than there would have been a lot of leg injuries. In the footage the wounds are head and torso wounds. This is null since the family was lying down on the beach. Reider: Just being reasonable, really. They are dead - they have been murdered (lets say even that the identity of the perpetrators is unclear). The one thing we can do for them is prompt full, international, unbiased investigation by an outside body (just as we wouldn't let Serbs scrutinize Sreberinca). This is only achieved by sensationalism, since there have been many similar cases that were not prosecuted with as much vigour (i.e. the death of a girl who's house collapsed on her after being hit by an artillery shell, also in Gaza, two months ago). Do you mean you dont trust the IDF or the goverment to run an objective investigation? Might aswell just close the country if the citizens dont believe it, we arent a banana republic (yet). What? Generations of Palestinians I wholly agree that lies and inaccuracies shame the Palestinians, but the occupation is stil there, the water control is there, the racist premises of the State of Israel which make the very existence of Palestinians a problem are still there. Even if 30% of Israeli violence against Palestinians had been staged, there is still the 70% to account for, and it still doesn't paint a pretty picture. Besides, Israel can lie just as good if not better - see the Naamati shooting, the girl-in-Rafah shooting, several scores of massacres during 1948-1956, etc etc. There is no occupation in Gaza, the only Israeli thing in Gaza is the free electicity and water they recive from us. Last but not least, let me try and get the whole picture here as you see it. Do you say that the carnage was staged and that the girl was acting? Who were the wounded the IDF was so proud of treating in Israeli hospitals, then? Or are you saying that the carnage was real, but perpetrated by the Hammas? Why did she need to pretend then? Forgive me when I say that at least by comparison, the Palestinian version of this event sound infinitely more credible and consistent than that of their detractors. Ok, here is my opinion. Two weeks before the incident an IDF navy unit came from the sea and killed a Qassam squad, Hamas decided to try and trick them next time and they planted charges or mines on the beach (remember the shayetet in Lebanon). The Palestinian family came to the beach and the kids were playing in the sand, they found the anti tank mine buried in the sand (it's lid is shown on the video) and played with it, it blew up killing the people around it. Hamas scrambled to the scene and once they saw it was their mine they quickly collected all the evidence, and covered the bodies. When the paramedics came Hamas filmed the scene after giving the girl some directions and scattering the bodies, believe me they are capable and have done it many times, every possible evidence is against it being a 155mm shell.

1) i think you should do your math. the first temple was around 410 years,temple 2 was 420 years. now add the kingdom before the temple which was 200-300 years. 2) if you will call the jewish nation "a loose alliance of monotheistic tribes, often at war..." than what are palestinians? 3) please don't give me garbage about the brits training jews. my grandparants lived here in the early 1900's, they survived the hebron massacre, there was no training for the jews then. i also know people still alive who fought in 48', no training then either. 4) i would love to have a country of two nations together happily. i know MANY normal , nice muslims who also want to live side by side. its the rest that don't.

Dear Linda, Joan Peters' book was a tremendous hoax that exploded in the academic world years and years ago. It was found to have rigged out of context remarks from previous publication, in fact very little of the book was actualy original. It contradicted even the demographic records of the Ottoman Empire and the mandate. Its death blow was dealt by a VERY conservative Israeli historian, Yehoshua Porat. He, a long time Likud voter, said: "Readers of her book should be warned not to accept its factual claims without checking their sources. Judging by the interest that the book aroused and the prestige of some who have endorsed it, I thought it would present some new interpretation of the historical facts. I found none. Everyone familiar with the writing of the extreme nationalists of Zeev Jabotinsky's Revisionist party (the forerunner of the Herut party) would immediately recognize the tired and discredited arguments in Mrs. Peters's book. I had mistakenly thought them long forgotten. It is a pity that they have been given new life". Peters (a former FBI employee, btw), can't get a proper academic job or title since. Surely this means something? As to the The Jewish Haifa Workers' Council proclamation - so what? They made nice gestures while the Haganah ransacked the Arab neighborhoods of Haifa (see Tom Segev, "1949: The First Israelis"). Maybe the Council didn't even know what was going on. Maybe it issued the statement before evacuation started. But why should we believe an occupying governments' proclamation that bluntly contradicts all facts on the ground? Sincerely, Idan.

Do elaborate rather than spitting off kindergarden accusations. And by the way, CAPSING doesn't make you smarter...

It's pretty easy to see synthetic cloth for what it is even without feeling it,surely you noticed it long ago when you started doing your own shopping. 250m - Holllllld on a second. So were the CRATERS 250 metres from the FAMILY? or were OTHER CIVILIANS 250metres from the CRATERS? Read the article, then comment.

Well then. Horse: I dont know if you've ever came under artillery (rockets mortars) but the first reaction a normal human being without any death wish is to run under cover and hide until it's over. Reider: Not if you hear it for the last year or so, and begin to realise that the bomb you heard is not the one that's gonna kill you. I have friends and penpals in Gaza, even collegaues (from a European University), and they report of constant barrages, sonic booms etc. And stil they try to lead normal lives, as people tried in Beirut, in Berlin, in London and other places, because you need to retain your sanity and you need to survive. Anyhow, you didn't answer most of the claims in that part of my question/answer. Horse: This makes no sense, you can clearly see the cameraman running to beach and only later do the paramedics come to treat the wounded, and later an abmulance drives right up to the scene, so your "No road" explanation is kind of wrong. I didn't see an ambluance drive up to the scene, but still, the question of chronology remain. At no point do you see the camerman _running towards the scene_, he starts filming from among the bodies, so your description of the scene is also somewhat lacking :P Who are you trying to fool, clothes soaked in water after an hour or so of swimming do not dry up in 15 minutes and no even in one hour, especially since the time is over the sun peak (around 5). Lets make an experiment next time you're around my neck of the woods, and go swimming in the Med in sharwals and synthetic shi

No one said that there are no woundedd people, what we do say is that ,this incident was directed by Hamas unfortunately with real people and real blood. Unfortunately the HAmas are sick people who ready to sacrifice human lives from their own people just to promote their own sick plans. Unforunately i have seen a couple of sick footage made by Hamas of how they executing of so called stinkers, there is no one normal country or society in the whole world that act like that. It's just sick, so i believe that the Hamas are able to do anything in order to promote their plans including a murder of an innocent family, they are a completely savages.