I think Ray is a Christian Arab Palestinian. Please Ray, correct me if wrong.

These Arabs celebrate when Jewish children are murdered and elect a group that promotes the destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Ray actually wants us to believe that these are good peope? That is why I as a non-Jew support Israel and the Jews. There is no moal comparision between the two people. I don't know what these Arabs believe in but it's definately not God!

I have a simple question for you and yours ya Abo Mohamad from Ein Karem. Why should it be the duty of Israel to create yet another Arab State when 22 have been created this past century for their self determination? Israel is a little country and cannot afford to give away a square yard of the patrimony of the Jews! 77% of the Mandate is with Jordan and this is the direction that the so -called Palestinians should direct themselves to.

Mr Joy Springstein if Ray is truly a Christian then he should have a first hand direct experience of the plight that the Christian believers suffer under the iron fist of the Islamic theocracy. I do not have to tell you the punishment meted out to any Christian believer just for showing a Moslem a King James or any other New Testament Bible so Ray is the right person to answer the questions posed in my posting # 55

For those who always compare Mecca with Jerusalem. Do you think that around 1.3 billions Muslims have the right to go to Mecca and be Saudi or Mecca citizens?? Those who ask Palestinians living in Jerusalem to leave and go to Mecca because it’s the holly city for Jews must know it’s also holly for Muslims and Christians. But it belongs to the people living in it, whether Jews, Muslims or Christians. Stop saying leave Jerusalem for us and go because you would sound very racist like the Nazis and apartheid South Africa. We don’t teach our children to hate Jews; it’s the Israelis acts of occupation, stealing land and ethnic cleansing that teaching our children to hate Jews. Tell me what you teach your children to come at the crossings as soldiers and humiliate Palestinians. Didn’t you teach them “land without people for people without land”? Weren’t you taught this by your first Zionists who invaded the land? Again open your heart just a bit and stop talking about our leaders. See us as humans have the right to live where we use to for thousands of years. Most of us gave up the 48 but not the right of return. Most of us accept you living in our houses in the 48 and stopped thinking to remove you from there like you want to do to us. It’s important to know that we won’t leave, even with the deadliest weapons you posses. Now think of how to let us live as humans just like you, or do you still think you are superior of the rest of the world? Yacov, if we lay down weapons, will you stop building settlements? will you stop expelling us? The government of Israel doesn’t want us to stop fighting; they break every truss because no peace means more land grabbing, more settlements and more de facto situation. It gives them more time. Prove the opposite. Israel left Gaza because we fought for it.

"It's a pity Barak withdrew from the Taba negotiations and since then Israel has refused to talk about the final status issues." Of course Israel has refused. They are being attacked by the people who were supposed to agree to a full peace. Should Israel speak to anybody when suicide bombings are still a preferred method of murdering Israeli civilians for the Palestinians? "I don't know where you got the figure of 97.5% part of WB offered to Palestinians." From Ben Ami's interview with Ha'aretz, "End of a Journey." In it, he states that Israel offered a land swap of 3% and 94.5% of the West Bank. The Palestinians rejected this and demanded all but 2.34% of the West Bank, thus essentially destroying the settlement blocs adjacent to Israel and eliminating the solution Clinton had proposed wherein 80% of the "settlers" would remain inside Israeli borders. "The EU paper about Taba says Israel offered to annex 6% and Palestinians wanted to give Israel 3.1% in the context of a land swap. " Yes it does. Ben Ami says 5.5% and 2.34%. I'll meet you halfway with Moratinos and we'll settle on 5.75% and 2.69%. But the Palestinians were not interested in the land swap or enabling the only solution that interested the Israelis, enabling the settlement blocs just outside the Green Line. They knew, of course, that this was a deal killer, especially in light of the fact that Israel was essentially agreeing to remove 80 settlements and their settlers to keep this small portion of land. Sounds idiotic to give up peace over these quibbles, doesn't it, especially since all of Gaza was going to be given to the Palestinians? "Palestinians were willing to negotiate about the exact solution to the refugee issue. " No they weren't. Their position remained fixed from Camp David and before. The Israelis moved on this issue to a certain degree, but the Palestinians continued to insist on 194 becoming part of the agreement - as they always do - and as per their reading of it. "Also, according to the EU paper, Palestinians accepted Israeli sovereignty over Jewish neighborhoods in Jerusalem and were ready to discuss Israel's request to keep sovereignty over post-1967 Israeli settlements in East Jerusalem, with the exception of Jebal Abu Ghneim and Ras al-Amud." Um, you missed the part where they refused to allow Israel to "keep" Ma'ale Adumim and Givat Ze'ev, two huge neighborhoods. You also neglect to mention that it calls Jewish areas in east Jerusalem "settlements" and calling the Jewish Quarter a "settlement" is outrageous to anybody who knows even a little of the history involved. The point Clinton made and that Israel agreed to was that the Jewish neighborhoods stay Jewish and the Arab neighborhoods fall under Arab sovereignty. If you want to miss the subtlety of that, then you do what the Palestinians did and reject this very fair division by demanding that their Arab villages stay Arab but Ma'ale Adumim and Givat Ze'ev don't stay under Israeli control. Also, leaving the Jewish Quarter in Israeli hands and taking the rest of the Old City seems to be a tad ahistoric, don't you think? So would, for that matter, rejecting any Israeli control over sites in the "Holy Basin."

You can mail him. He specifies his mail on his site mentioned in the end of the article.

I once went to fix my car at a garge in betlehem (before the intifada) and the guy there (Christian) talked with me while they were working on it, from what he told me it turns out he hates the Muslims a lot more than most Israelis, he said that ever since we brought the gangs from Tunis, that's how he called them, their life has turned to hell, that they are brining Bedouin tribes from the Hebron mountian in order to make the Christians a minority in their own cities (Ramallah, Betlehem, Bet Sahur), collecting protection taxes, kidnapping Christian girls and basicly striking terror and chasing Christians out of the PA. As for Camp David and Taba, as I see some people are arguing here about it, it's really not about 0.1% there, 1.7% here, one less meter, one more neighbourhood, it's just that Arafat did not want to sign a document nullifying the reason of his and his gang's existence, that's why he "Broke the tools", he was incuraged by the withdrawal from South Lebanon on the abilitiy to gain political achievments through an attrition war with Israel, achieving military victory over Israel was alot more important for him than the welfare of his people, than independence, than freedom, than justice, and proven through the doomed war that followed, than the life of his people. But he made it, he "Kicked out" Israel from 150sqm of land, the price does not matter, as everything can always be blamed on Israel, but the most important thing he did was to break the opinion of the Israeli public about withdrawing from territories, we can say that the Gaza withdrawal was the begining of Israel's defeat, and that was perhaps his biggest victory.

To Israeli, I need to tell you this. According to the old BBC/Pathe Newsreels of the 20s throughout the 60s, a person born in "Israel" (British Mandate of Palestine) WAS always known as a Palestinian. I have a very dear friend of mine who was born in jerusalem in the late 30s. He is proud to say he's a Palestinian with an Israeli identity. He can tell stories about life under the british. Also the Hawamdeh family is also a Palestinian name but who's one son considers himself also to be Israeli of Palestinian parents. His father was born prior to 1948. So you see, perhaps Ray's heritage is that of my dear friend and of the Hawamdeh family to be of the old term Palestinian, where nearly 98% of all the population were known as Palestinians unless you were Muslim and wanted to be loyal to the "motherlands" of Trans-Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon. Those who claimed to be Palestinian always wanted to be independent from ANY colonial or mandated rule. Shalom/Salaw

In reading your analysis I have to say I agree with you. As someone who has never been to Israel but has been in the diaspora as you - but not by choice as your family did make that choice, I can only give my opinion but I have no right to dictate what anyone should do. As a Jewess in the US (gotta love that rhyme--ok I'm biased) I have a deep love for Israel becuase to me it is a miracle. Despite the modern (21st century-adoption of Arafat's term) definition of a Zionist is, I am one. To me a zionist is a person who wants a homeland. To be themselves w/o a fear of being persecuted. Now that can be anyone. A Hindu is a zionist for India. Shinto a zionist for Japan, etc. Even though that does not coincide what is being taught of what zionism is today. Today the word zionist is being equated with a Nazi. Which is the strangest equation I have ever seen. In reality today's Muslim extremist and their organizations and governments (ie., hamas, hezbollah, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.) are much more similar to the Nazi idealogies than Zionism is. Under Zionism one can say NO to the government w/o having any fear of being murdered. Also one can be gay if that is their own choosing and no repercussions will happen (I apologize for my spelling on that one word). Also, one can also and have married outside of their faith or even dated outside of their faith under zionism w/o being murdered in the name of honor. But that's not getting to the point I'm trying to make. As I stated earlier I do not live in Israel so I'm on the outside looking in. I have spoken with many natives and many do not like the Olmert government at all. But above all, how can anyone even think about making peace with a government that has it's own charter calling for the destruction of another sovereign and legit country? That would be suicide in itself. My opinion is to call up NASA and maybe have a joint program with India's space program. Put all the politicians (government ministers including Um Farhart - the murderous mother who put the bomb belts on her own children and taught them how to destroy life) and just send them all out into space - pick another galaxy. THEN you have something to work with. You then have people who can then talk amongst themselves and work out their differences. However, one thing is not for sale and that is Jerusalem. I'm sorry, but the Muslims have all of Saudi Arabia of which I am not even allowed to visit as I will have to give up my Hamzah necklace and I can't do that (yes I'm stubborn), the Christians have Rome, and Bethlehem, the Bahais who were native of Persia have Haifa so let the Jews have Jerusalem. Even part of the name sounds like saying Jew (except it has an r in it). Ray's family name is in itself an old name as well as being a part of the region. I'm sure he has even property that has been willed to him. I would wonder though would he give up something that is his? That he can pass on to his children? And please do not give me the story of those who were kicked out of Israel forcefully. Records show that less than 70 were forced out and that was because in the early days, they had murdered families and were enemies of the country. How many times has any other country deported someone who had become a threat to it? So why, Ray, should there be a set of rules for one and another set for Israel? Just asking. My email is a part of this so please do not be a stranger in answering this. Shalom/Salaw/Shlama/Salaam/Shpena Hinda

My original second part of the response seems lost so I'll recreate it to the best of my memory. You wrote: "Palestinians recognized Israeli sovereignty over the Western Wall, although there was a dispute about the exact area covered by the Western Wall." No they didn't. They accepted Israeli sovereignty over the Wailing Wall, not the Western Wall. The difference, as Ben Ami explains, is that one is physicsal and the other isn't. One acknoweldges that it is the Western Wall of something...the Temple Mount, while the other merely acknowledges that this wall is merely an idea and representative of something important but is not related to the physical presence of a Temple in the area. " The Temple Mount issue wasn't resolved, but the EU paper doesn't specify why. " It wasn't resolved because the Palestinians refused to acknowledge that the Temple Mount is so named because it houses the remains of the Temple and the Jews' physical link to their heritage and evidence of their historic presence in Jerusalem long before Arafat lied about not being an Egyptian. Another reason the Temple Mount discussions failed is explained by Ben Ami who speaks about the attempt to convince a senior Palestinian negotiation member to divide sovereignty over the Temple Mount. The idea was to give Israel vertical sovereignty over part of the Mount, and the Palestinians over theirs. The Palestinians refuses to even discuss it. They were simply unwilling to compromise on the Temple Mount. "Taba negotiators said that they were closer than ever before to the final status agreement. Their work should be finished. " Sure, this was a legitimate claim. It was meaningless, however, because the Palestinians refused to budge over the most important issues. They did not accept the compromises offered on refugees. They did not accept shared sovereignty over the Temple Mount/Harm al Sharif (this at a time when they control it through the Waqf by Israel's good graces). They refused to provide a compromise meaningful to Israel on the minimal portion of land it sought to keep near the Green Line so that billions of dollars and the lives of almost 200,000 wouldn't be disrupted. They refused to consider the possibility of sharing any part of east Jerusalem except for the Jewish Quarter, even though this area is the very foundation of Jewish civilization. The Israelis have no reason to sit down with the Palestinians and return to Taba discussions. The idea behind Taba was to achieve final peace. The Palestinians have elected a government that overtly (as opposed to the previous government that did it surreptitiously) rejects Israel and its existence, is opposed by its ideology to any final compromise, and believes that terrorism as directed at Israeli civilians is legitimate. How can Israel go back to offering an international airport or port to such a government or those who elected it? How could Israel trust that the Palestinians will actually adhere to the terms of the agreement when they educate their people to believe they will one day control all of Israel's land? How can Israel expect, when the PA explicitly states that not a single "settler" (read: Jew who isn't Amira Hass) may remain in Palestinian territory, that it's most important holy sites will not be destroyed or that access to them will be granted? And worse of all, how can Israel expect to achieve peace when it leaves Gaza entirely - every single Jewish civilian and soldier removed - and yet is attacked endlessly from Gaza subsequently? Will that mean that after they sign a deal and remove forces, that once again the Palestinians will engage them in war? The Palestinians are more extreme than ever - even as Israel's Right has moved to the Center - and nice pablum like "The two parties should just sit together and talk" will not wash. You can't fix a broken mirror. The Palestinians need to make some fundamental changes in their outlook in order to gain peace.

I CALLED YOU THE AUTHOR,, A FRAUD AND A PHONEY. TODAYS TERMS,,, I CALL YOU THE DRIVER OF THE TROJAN HORSE. YNET STILL FEEDS YOU...... YOU WILL IMPLODE SOON ENOUGH

Palestinians hating Jews..." Ray, what is the color of the sky on your planet because you surely don't live here? islam has one goal, to conquer the world with it's violent crap. The new "leader" in Somalia says that ANYONE who does not pray to allah five times a day is an infidel and should be killed. So long as the arabs think islam is a religion, they will try to kill all Jews. You are a joke Ray, but you are not humerous.

[I can't believe I'm about to say this]: I disagree vociferously with everything Ray says - but its not fair to insult him for being honest and saying what he thinks. He's honest, which I do not confuse with "on the money," and he's putting it out there. At least give him the basic respect of the plenum.

Ray, WW2 & Cold War ended when Nazis & Soviets vanished from history. This conflict will also end when "Palestinians" disappear. It is not too difficult to imagine . Recall before early 70s most W. Bank Arabs considered themselves Jordanians.

Read Ray's column again. He never mentions the name Hamas. This is a tactic of the "why can't we all just get along" crowd. Never trust anoyone who doesn't recognize that Hamas is a terrorist organization and that it runs the PA government.

It is the Arab Palestinian rejection of Israel's right to exist and *not* Israeli policies that are the cause of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. There is no law on earth that requires the Jewish people to accept the revision of their history and the division of their country's borders, nor their own demise merely because palestinians like you say we should. Who are you, Ray? Who do you think you are to arrogantly prescribe which Arab in what city has the authority to state which group is entitled to what parcel of land? Arabs chose war. Arabs suffer the consequences. We don't need to join you in your suffering for choosing war and murdering our people because you were too greedy and too ethno-centric to accept a state in 1948. Besides, it is not citizenship or a nation that you want, but a reactionary vision that would erase Israel from the map. Why should your people - Arabs - who have been slaughtering Jews since the 1880's, instead of negotiating with Jews, be deserving of the victor's consideration at all? There would be no issue today, if your people were willing to share the land. Tell me, if the combined Arab states had won the wars which they instigated against Israel, would they have benevolently pulled back so Jews could build their own state? No one is that dumb. Face the music. You attacked. You lost. Now you must learn how to play with others. Start by speaking out against the vermin who lead your people. Please end the lexicon of Palestinian propaganda. There is no such place as "Palestine" and there is no such place as Biafra. Oh yes, Biafra did exist at one time, but it doesn't anymore. Neither does the mandatory region of land that Britain was obligated to partition which the Arabs rejected. Capitalizing the letter "E" for East Jerusalem doesn't make it a unique city from Jerusalem. Jerusalem was never an Arab city and it never will be. Never. http://smoothstone.blogspot.com

to those who are nice :) Thanks Nir for starying this. I think we stumbled across something that everyone should learn. We don't have to agree with each other to be respectful. I don't expect you to embrace all my views, nor should I yours. But we can respect each other. (Email, by the way, is a poor form of communication because it always emphasizes the negative ... one day, maybe, we can all talk face-to-face. It's hard to hate someone you know and easy to hate strangers. Let's stop being strangers.) Yakov. I don't have your email. Ask a question. (Yes, I am Palestinian Christian). By the way, my dad received a Palestinian identity card in 1926 when he traveled to the US. His brothers and sisters were forced form their homes in the 1948 war. Samir, #40, it is amazing that a Palestinian would be more moderate than the Israelis here who claim they want peace. Don't loose hope in the face of the hatred. And remember, the majority ofpeople here do not represent Israel. Most are speaking out of hatred. #1 -- you can dig in the toilet of BS and lies all you want, but it doesn't change a thing. You have said far worse -- and I forgive you! Thanks David for frank comments. We don't have to agree 100 percent, just agree on certain very important principles. Let's find a fair way out of this. Defeat is not an option. Respect is an option. And ... I will continue to be a critic of bad Israeli policies -- as I continue to be a critic of bad Palestinian and Arab policies, too. Thanks Ray hanania www.hanania.com

it's just that you sound a tad hypocritical when you talk about peace and speak with an air of righteous indignation at those who, how you put it, are "speaking out of hatred", after reading what you wrote about israel. you are preaching to the wrong crowd. say your pious words of peace to those who really need to hear it - the average palestinian (you know, the ones who voted for hamas and support suicide attacks on israelis, according to their own polls).

And worse yet,you not only said absolutely nothing as you omited the FUNDAMENTAL in this all,and showed so your subjacent(hiden) intention in this all issue,which is exactly the same as all other ''palis". In other words,you speak and speak,but your words are flattering and empty and false: "Since I am not a negotiator and I don’t impose solutions, I can’t say the “solution” is returning all the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, East Jerusalem, ending the violence, RECOGNIZING ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO SECURITY, and more. Although that is what I believe." WHY DON'T YOU STATE THE RIGHT FOR ISRAEL TO EXIST?????? Should we trust you or any of your words???? Or should we understand that you ,the same as your incompetent palis friends,want us thrown into the sea? Well...I am better than you .I want you all living among YOUR OWN PEOPLE,that for sure it is not the Jewish People and it is not in the Jewish Israel,and when I say Jewish Israel I mean Judea,Samaria,Gaza, and all the rest that is alredy with us.AT LEAST!!!!

It is necessary to separate moderates and extremists among the Palestinians, not put them all in one bag. There are Palestinians who are in favor of a two-state solution based approximately on the Green Line and there are Palestinians who want Israel destroyed. The former must be strengthened and the latter isolated. True, most Palestinians have recently elected Hamas. But Hamas didn't always enjoy so much popular support. Violence, misery and no solution in sight make masses radical and insane, and Hamas was also viewed as less corrupt than Fatah - an internal Palestinian matter. The Palestinian moderation can be revived, and Israel can contribute to this revival by seriously negotiating with moderates. The policy of non-negotiation radicalizes Palestinian moderates and brings them closer to terrorists.

The "here" is the results of the latest poll by Jerusalem Media and Communication Center: "77 percent of those (Palestinians) questioned support the kidnapping of Shalit, while 67 percent said they support further abductions in the current political climate." A total of 1,197 people were interviewed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip between July 6 and July 7. The poll has a three percentage point margin of error.

Why do I - an ardent Israeli rightist - have a hard time believing you are who you say you are? Probably because I have yet to meet an Arab, let alone a Saudi, who quotes pro-Israeli sources and uses the polemics of the Israeli right. Its too good to be true. And when something is too good to be true - it isn't. As much as I wish it were...

The answer is simple David:O-B-J-E-C-T-I-V-I-T-Y: I have made a conscious effort to not allow ANY bias into MY view of reality.

Hanania writes: "you can dig in the toilet of BS and lies all you want, but it doesn't change a thing. You have said far worse -- and I forgive you!" I note you do not deny writing that article, an article in which you called for the destruction of the Jewish state. Instead, in your usual fashion, you accuse me a person who merely quoted your words of being a liar. And I do not forgive you. I never forgive a man who has acted dishonestly and dishonourably. It is you who has been caught in a lie, the kind of blatant lie unfortunately which is only too typical of those who represent the "Palestinian" people.

Yes Jews were Palestinians. Read again what I stated. And Ray is an American of Arab descent as I am a 3rd generation yank of gypsy/eastern europe descent. The ones who refused to be included in the term Palestinian were always mostly Muslim Arabs until their icon, Yassir Arafat, a student of the Nazi propagandist Josef Goebbels, stated that he was a Palestinian in the 1960s (even if that was a lie). From then on - Muslim Arabs became Palestinians. By the way - Josef Goebbels coined the following phrase that Arafat lived by and the world bought: Tell a lie long enough, it becomes believable. Shalom

"Let the Arab stranger go live with his brother in any of his 22 countries."