Opinion  Others
Joe Lieberman pays the price
Zalman Shoval
Published: 11.07.06, 14:10
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31. So mercenaries are workers?
Sol Salbe ,   Melbourne Australia   (07.12.06)
Memo Dr Shoval: Anyone choosing to ride shotgun on behlf of US occupiers is not a "worker" but a mercenary. If they were "working" on behlf of Hamas you would have shot them.
32. #24, not supporting Israel against the arabs is antisemitism
Don   (07.12.06)
if you don't support 100% what israel is doing, and don't support 100% what we do to help Israel, than you might as well be a terrorist
33. a message
Fares ,   cleveland   (07.12.06)
senator joe upcoming humiliation should be a lesson to his collegues in the congress that they are member of the US congress not the israeli kenesset .. it is also a lesson for the israelis ,peace talks should be with the palestinians ..not the americans .. your only hope (not for ever ) is the 1967 line with east jerusalem and comprehensive solution for the 48 refugees ..time is running out ,lieberman's exit is one first sign only ...american's consent for nuclear Iran is another sign ....etc .
34. "David, in Jerusalem"...you make my point exactly.
ExJoeSupporter ,   Danbury, CT, USA   (07.12.06)
You said: "He didn't shift away from his constituents - they shifted away from him" It really doesn't matter which "spin" you put on it, Joe Lieberman is still out of step with the voters who elected him...as you have pointed out above. He just needs to go join the Republican Party and be honest with himself. He clearly represents their point of view. Look, if you like Joe so much then vote for him. if you can..I could care less. Hopefully, there will be many, many, many more voters in Connecticut who feel differently than you do...and we will get a Senator who represents "his constituents"; not the other way around. That's the way it's supposed to work in a Democracy.
35. Israel did NOT push for a war on Iraq
Raymond from DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (07.12.06)
Odysseus160 (#24) writes, "Personally I have nothing against Israel but I resent having to fight its wars for it. And that is what has happened, I believe on purpose. " However often I see such statements in the context of the war in Iraq, they remain uninformed. As a long time student and observer of Middle Eastern politics, I argued for years, as did most Israeli leaders, that IRAN was the prime threat in the region, given their nuclear ambitions and broad support of terrorism (e.g. Hizbullah). Iraq, while under a loathsome leadership, was basically contained. There was NO push from Israel to initiate a war in Iraq. Israel could expect that, based on their experience in '91 under Desert Storm, there was a likelihood that Iraq would attempt to widen any conflict by attacking Israel. The distribution of gas masks alone as a precaution cost Israel several hundred million dollars! Thus they had no vested interest in confronting Iraq at this time. To suggest otherwise shows a lack of real knowledge about this region.
36. shoval the fool
DC Zionist ,   bethesda MD USA   (07.12.06)
shoval spent a diplomatic carreer alienating centrist and liberal Jews bt screaming and hinting (depending on the audience) that all who opposed his right wing views were anti semites or self-haters. He lost all credibility..now when Lieberman abandons all that is dear to democrats domestically as well as in foreign affairs he desperately pulls out an Israeli Jeremiah... to incite the Jewish base,,,this Jew doesn't buy it and will contribute to Joe's democratic opponent.
37. #1If Lieberman is too far to the right for today's Democrats
AK   (07.12.06)
I may as well join the Republican Party after almost 30 years as a Democrat. Let's face it, I have voted Giuliani and Blumberg already.
38. Shoval hasn't read a book by Orwell in his life, obviously
Nichta Merrimont ,   Paris, France   (07.12.06)
Dear Mr. Shoval, You've never read a George Orwell book for the life of you, Orwellian twist, Shoval, or else you would not misuse the concept of "Orwellian" as you have in the context it was used. Democrats were right to call Lieberman a traitor because he did not stand for the ideals that most of his party espoused. In many of Orwell's pieces, however, government uses its propaganda to railroad manipulate the will of the people in order to ramrod their will through. "Black" is "white," "up"is "down" and "fact is fiction." Hence, a government can claim its trying to "win the peace" while killing citizens or terrorizing citizens while stealing their land and natural resources. Yes, the use of the word "Orwellian" might sound good in an article. But, it makes you look like a fool if you don't know the context behind it. Next time, be a good author and read before you quote.
39. I Am A Zionist and a Proud American
Dave Levi ,   Burbank. USA   (07.12.06)
I will never kowtow to the anti-Semites, who (in their latest diabribe against us), accuse Jews of pushing the Iraqi war, to the detriment of the world (and the US). They single out people like Joe Lieberman, and of course the neo-cons, (who have Jewish surnames). The reality is that we Jews voted like our Christian co-Americans on the war, and have done so consistently since then. Joe, who is not a pinko liberal type from Conn., (a very out of the way liberal state), was for getting rid of Saddam, based on Saddams atrocities over 35 years, and his potential for destabilizing the M.E. even more (incineratinting Israel). But, Israel was not afraid of Iraq's dictator..however, it now has problem with Iran. I will continue to contribute to Joe's campaign, and hope to encourage everyone else. This is how we can defeat the doom and gloomers and anti-Semitic crowd that wants US destroyed.
40. to #34: from yet another post from a Connecticut Jew
stu ,   stamford, ct , usa   (07.12.06)
This is from an Actual Jew in CT, and one that is actually supposed to vote in the primary (I doubt there is more than 1 or 2 others in the entire readership of YNET who is eligible to vote). Joe doesnt represent many of the local people here anymore, he has drifted away quite along time. I still like him. But a lot here dont. I disagree with his stance on Iraq, most other people also disagree with him. (Read my former posts). However, Your POST is IRRELLEVENT because to be BRUTALLY HONEST, no one here in Connecticut except maybe a small few, give a HOOT about Joe's Israel position or his religion. Joe may think people do, and he may want to make it an issue, and he does carry a bit of national popularity, but here in Connecticut we dont. We are concerned with domestic issues. The FLIP SIDE of this, is that if we vote him out, it is because of his domestic agenda, and his proRepublican social views, not necesarrliy because he is a Pro-Israeli rightist and certainly not because he is Jewish. That is not to say we are not Pro-Israeli. ONly that we are not right wing or left wing about it,. but rational. As a jew I would defend Israel at all costs. My CHristain friends maybe would not be as zelous as I personally am, but they clearly recognize the threat of Hamas and the Islamists to the world. Connecticut is an urban state with a high degree of political and worldly sophistication so we do not blindly follow the leadership or either Bush or the left wing. We just dont think Joe's pro-Iraq war views are imprtant right now, and that others may serve us better with an emphasis on a domestic agenda. We dont necesarliy disagree with his Israel views. His religion is not even an issue either way here. We do think in retrospect the Iraq war was a mistake, and his refusal to be flexible on that issue adds salt to the wounds. . And I agree with a previous post, that the author erroneously draws conclusions about how the national and international populace may think based upon the views of people like us from a small blue state of CT.
41. More Lieberman Spin
RT ,   New Haven, CT   (07.12.06)
Yes, the war is a significant issue here in CT. But it is far from the only reason that Democrats are rejecting Lieberman. Here's a few other issues. Under Lieberman's watch, Connecticut ranks 49th in getting back what they gives to the federal government in taxes. Lieberman refused to stand with Democrats on the issue of cloture of a filibuster against appointing right wing judges. Lieberman voted for a bankruptcy bill, which enabled predatory lending (while getting huge donations from the credit card industry). Lieberman voted for Bush's energy plan which subsidizes oil companies (like subsidizing fish for swimming), and was essentially written by lobbyists and oil company executives. Lieberman went against the party and supported various school voucher programs, instead of acting like a Democrat and supporting public education. Lieberman spoke out against forcing hospitals to provide emergency contraception to rape victims, saying they could just pick another hospital. Lieberman voted for the Transportation Bill, with over 6,000 earmarks, including the Alaskan bridge to nowhere. Are these the sort of values that Connecticut voters expect in their elected officials? I think not.
42. Lamont Leads Lieberman Among CT Jews
rt ,   New Haven, CT   (07.12.06)
"But an internal Democratic poll of Connecticut Jews sees Lamont leading by 50 percent to 41 percent, JTA has learned. The sample was small, but the results were a dramatic departure from the 90-plus approval rating Lieberman scored among Jews after Al Gore named him as his running mate in 2000. Connecticut Jews make up 111,000 of the state's 3.4 million people, or a little more than 3 percent of the population, according to the Jewish Virtual Library." http://www.cjp.org/content_display.html?ArticleID=187442
43. Lieberman - a liberal through and through
John Krew ,   Wallingford, Pa.   (07.12.06)
I am a bit puzzled by the comments on Lieberman's domestic agenda, which are nothing but distorted revisionist history . Lieberman has been consistently liberal on almost all domestic issues (pro-abortion, pro-labor, anti-gun, anti-Alito, etc.). His only conservative "sins" are his support for the Iraq war, his religious faith, and his support of morality in the public square. On almost all other issues he has voted liberal, and his liberal ADA lifetime rating of 81 and his conservative ACU lifetime rating of 17 prove it.
44. Lieberman's 81 ADA Rating Is Dismal
RT ,   New Haven, CT   (07.12.06)
That ADA rating is terrible for a northeast Democrat. There are only three Senate Democrats with a lower ADA rating. Hillary Clinton, for example has a 95 rating, and his fellow CT senator, Dodd, has a 94. Source: http://www.boomantribune.com/comments/2006/6/25/12442/7380/15?mode=alone;showrate=1
45. Article on Lieberman
Brian Nichols ,   St. Paul, Minnesota   (07.12.06)
I ran across this while poking around on the net. I dont know where to start. The perspective that this article comes from is just nutty. But I guess it is totally understandable. If I was to try to comment on Israeli political situations I would be clueless also. If you would like a realistic view of the Lieberman situation. I would suggest going to npr.org and finding Bill Clintons comments in Aspen. As far as an overall view of political reality in the US. I guess I can only recomend wadeing through the New York Times every day for a year or so. Good Luck.
46. Joe Lieberman has outgrown the Dems.
Dr. Rick ,   USA   (07.12.06)
..........And they are pushing him out. Joe Lieberman is one of the last of the best that the Democratic Party has had to offer. The problem is not with Lieberman,a good Jew, its with the Democrats. The party has for a time been the home of socialists and assorted wingnuts. People forget that it was socialism that brought the Nazis. Any way, Lieberman was good with the social issues , but the wingnuts couldn't stand his hawkishness with the war. Lieberman would be better off in the Republican party where so many Jews have already gone. As the Jewish base in the Republicans builds they remove power proportionly from the Religious Right,bring more balance and act as a moderating influence,which everyone needs. .He could probably do well as an Independent, but would not have the same organizational benefits immediately as a Republican. There he could bring his knowledge and skill in social issues. All in all I hope Lieberman succeeds. He is level-headed, experienced and can see both sides of an issue which many cannot.
47. #32 - A new definition of terrorism
odysseus160 ,   Los Angeles,CA USA   (07.12.06)
"if you don't support 100% what israel is doing, and don't support 100% what we do to help Israel, than you might as well be a terrorist" This idiotic statement speaks for itself and needs no further comment.
48. #46 What parallel universe do you live in?
ExJoeSupporter ,   Danbury, CT, USA   (07.12.06)
"As the Jewish base in the Republicans builds they remove power proportionally from the Religious Right, bring more balance and act as a moderating influence, which everyone needs." Are you kidding me? The Republicans would rather eat Jews than eat with Jews. They are only using Jews now to get the absolute power they need to help their friends like the Oil industry. Last time I checked, Israel wasn't pumping out any oil...but their buddies in the Arab states certainly are. Whom do you really think they will support at the end of the day, an Israeli state that depends upon USA taxpayer financial support, or the Arab states who help pad their pockets with profits? They could care less about Jews and Jewish interests; they will act in the best interests of their own pocketbooks. You need to wake up and smell the coffee.
49. Lieberman
Taryn Walesa ,   Davis usa   (07.12.06)
We believe Lieberman is a TRAITOR, not a "taitor"! And that would be a traitor to America. I'm sure Lieberman is just a taitor to Israel, but that isn't the issue is it?
50. Joe Lieberman
Hilda ,   USA   (07.12.06)
No one has said the obvious--that the Democrat party has become extremely antisemitic.--from its hatred of Israel . It is now trying to purge itself of its Jews. Look out Finestein and gang. When the are through with using you they will purge you too.
51. You Need to Learn More About America
Thomas Klem ,   New York, USA   (07.13.06)
Lieberman's support for the war in Iraq was based on corruption, not idealism. Like the other politicians who brought us into the war, he was pandering to Big Oil, Halliburton, Bechtel, the Christian Right and other corrupt Bush Administration cronies. You also fail to realize that Lieberman has done other terrible things while in the Senate. He supported trade agreements that have impoverished Americans and devasted Mexicans. He voted to elevate two Justices, Roberts and Alito, to our Supreme Court who had demonstrated fanatical bigotry and who showed utter contempt for the rule of law. Whenever corporate interests wanted to mistreat ordinary Americans, Lieberman was in their corner. You don't have to work in unsafe environments and eat dangerous food because politicians like Lieberman voted based on the size of the donation rather than on the impacts of his constituents. Please take the trouble to learn about the United States before you make ignorant and foolish comments about our country.
52. Mishegoss ! Narrishkeit! #50
ExJoeSupporter ,   Danbury, CT, USA   (07.13.06)
You can't really be serious? The Democratic Party's ranks are loaded with Jewish supporters for good reason...we have always supported the right for Israel to exist, and for Jews “to live as Jews in America”. We have constantly pointed out the corrupt political and financial connections between the Bush Family & Republicans to Saudi Arabia due to their oil interests. Please tell me exactly what George W. Bush and the Republicans have done to crack down on Saudi Arabia's support for Islamic extremism? Absolutely nothing! If it weren't for Saudi support of the Islamic extremists, the rockets being fired on Israel today simply wouldn't exist. The “friendliness” by Republicans towards Israel will end when the war in Iraq does. A wolf in sheep’s clothing is simply duping Jews once again. You don’t have any oil; therefore Jews do not really count in the long term to the Republicans. Only oil & money are what matter to them.
53. #48- IIIIIIII don't think sooooo, EX JOE SUPPORTER!!
Dr. Rick ,   USA   (07.13.06)
Have you ever heard of.....The Republican Jewish Coalition?? Uh! Oh!...You're forceing me to name names!.. How about? .....These names: ARI FLEISHER PAUL WOLFOWITZ ARLEN SPECTOR WARREN RUDMAN MICHAEL CHERTOFF ERIC CANTOR KEN MEHLMAN FRED ZEIDMAN BILL KRYSTAL DAVID HOROWITZ BERNARD GOLDBERG Don't forget MAYOR BLOOMBERG of NEW YORK All are Jewish Republicans...........Just to name a few..........Ring any bells?? ... The list goes on and on!!.........You have been believeing your own propaganda! Don't mess with THE DOCTOR! To quote BOB DYLAN............ "The times, they are a changin". PS- Are you also an ATHLETIC SUPPORTER? HA!HA!HA!HA!HA! Shalom!
54. Lieberman's real problem
Malik ,   San Francisco, USA   (07.13.06)
is not the radical left, or bloggers on the internet. The washington Post has it right on the money: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/11/AR2006071101204.html Everytime I look Lieberman is going against Democrats and siding with republicans. There are some Rebulicans who I'd rather have in the Party than him.
55. He's Jewish too ...
Odysseus160 ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (07.13.06)
Re # 53: BERNARD GOLDBERG is Jewish? There was a guy in school who was named that. So he's really Jewish, huh? Far out. I would never have guessed, by his name, I mean. I suspect you have an evil purpose with your idiotic list. One could just as easily make lists of prominent Democratic Jews, or lobbyists, or movie actors, or anything else that list-makers use as fodder. If there's anything you want to say why don't you come out and say it, instead of skulking around with innuendos.
56. Primary Debates, 2004.
Giles ,   Melbourne, US   (07.13.06)
I'm afraid that Sen. Lieberman interupted another candidate's time to throw a mini tantrum when a "more balanced position on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict." As if his lack of composure wasn't bad enough, the subject cannot help but to breed falsehoods about dual alliances and other conspiracy theories.
57. The US Democratic Party
Ruth ,   Boston - USA   (07.13.06)
The US Dem. Party is being pushed or pulled to the fart left. This is bad strategy if the US Dems. ever hope to regain the White House. Pres. Clinton (a Democrat) knew that most of the US is middle of the road. Clinton played to the Center and won. Playing the Left will not be popular with most US voters. I'm a member of no party. I'm a registered Independent. I voted for Gore and Lieberman, against Bush, because I liked Lieberman and thought he may run for president after Gore. (I couldn't stand either Gore or Bush, but I had to decide between them. Lieberman made the difference for me.) I think the Democrats will lose at the polls if they get rid of people like Lieberman and support far left Democrats. Not that it makes any difference .. but I'm not Jewish. I like Lieberman because of his stand on many issues.
58. #53 I guess you forgot about the company they also keep..
ExJoeSupporter ,   Danbury, CT, USA   (07.13.06)
...other "Good Republicans", like: Pat Roberston David Duke Ralph Reed Randall Terry Newt Gingrich Jerry Falwell ...and thousands of other like-minded Republicans. "I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good...Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."--Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana, 8-16-93 "It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into (our) institutions (today) are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have.... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."--Pat Robertson, New York Magazine, August 18, 1986 Do you really believe that these people are friends of Jews and Jewish interests? You need to wake up to what is happening in America.
59. #53, and here's GOP Leader Henry Hyde remarks on Hamas
ExJoeSupporter ,   Danbury, CT, USA   (07.13.06)
Henry Hyde (R) Chairman of the U.S. House International Relations Committee: "I do not agree with [House Democratic Rep. Gary Ackerman (NY)]. I think that having Hamas, with all its flaws, participate in the democratic process, something alien to their spirit, is a sign of strength on our part, not weakness. And I think the effort, a legitimate effort, to help bring into the democratic process all of the dissident elements is worth it because, unless this situation gets solved, staring at each other with muscles flexed and weapons cocked gets us nowhere. But we shall see." That turned out well, huh? Still happy with your new Republican friends? Does this help you understand why so many of us are so upset that Joe Lieberman is supporting them? Republicans still continue to support Hamas & Saudia Arabia; please tell me...exactly why is that? Like I said, they are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
60. Primitive thinking
Tony Best ,   LA/ USA   (07.13.06)
If you don't agree with the Irak war, you are unpatriotic, if you don' t agree with Israel policy you are anti-semitic. Who are you kidding ?? I have bad news for you. over 50% of American are opposed to this crazy war, and 98% of the planet think that Israel is the number danger to world peace. If you don't believe it. just watch CNN.
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