We told you so
Shlomo Engel
Published: 17.07.06, 11:18
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1. also time for-
Yisraeli   (07.17.06)
shouting from the rooftops and after tzahal has completed her task for mass demonstrations against all the policies brought in with Oslo and all its desciples called to justice. They are all complicit and ought to be tried for theyre crimes against the people of Israel. They have much blood on theyre hands.
2. finally a truthful article. if only the left could
michael   (07.17.06)
be mature and admit they made a mistake. We would well be on the correct path for strengthining our country.
3. You people make me sick
Edan ,   Beer Sheva   (07.17.06)
Pointing fingers of blame and saying "I told you so". Does this solve any problems? Is it promoting solidarity at a time when that is what is needed? I am far from agreement with Yigal Serena but you guys and this article are no better at all. This is not the lefts fault. It is the fault of the Hizbullah, Syria and Iran. Absolutely disgusting. I spit in the face of people like Shlomo Engel and the author of response #1. You people are a disgrace.
4. Edan: YOU Make Me Sick
Yishai Kohen ,   YeShA, Israel   (07.17.06)
You want "solidarity" on YOUR terms. Where was your "solidarity" when 10,000 Jews were being ethnically cleansed in the name of YOUR mistaken beliefs? What is disgusting is that what is happening now is the DIRECT result of YOUR collective myopic views- and you're still too blind to realize it. The Arabs never stopped wanting to destroy us- and until you realize that sacrificing us in the belief that they have somehow changed, we WILL say "I told you so"; until you get it through your head.
5. reality too much for the Left?
RobertK ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.06)
They always make vicious accusations against others. They made and make right-wing politicians like (former) Sharon, Shamir, or Netanyahu objects of intense, obsessive personal loathing. When they see clear evidence that their policies have led to disaster, do they have the moral courage to say, OK, we were wrong, now let's cope with the situation together? Maybe some of them do, I hope. Just as the Oslo govts. bore guilt for the Oslo-related terror attacks, the Sharon govts. and more recently the Olmert govt. (though less so, because it had less time) bear guilt for the missile attacks now being perpetrated from Lebanon on Israeli civilians. Hizbullah has been building up the missiles for years and esp. since Israel's 2000 pullout. Sharon knew this all along. While the Left started to slobber over him because of the "disengagement," he kept doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING over the Hizbullah missiles in a case of criminal negligence. The media was so quiet about them that I have met adult Israelis who did not know the missiles were there at all till the last few days. This continues the pattern of CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE and CRIMINAL MALFEASANCE of Israeli govts. since 1992. The Right protested and criticized, the Left applauded, in love with Israeli concessions and passivity of any kind.
6. Historical Survey of Israeli Leaders: Will Rockets Fall?
Nachman-1   (07.17.06)
If we cut and run, Gaza will be taken over by terror organizations... Gaza's squares shall be transformed into launching platforms of Katyushas toward Ashkelon ... The only way to defeat terrorism is by controlling its bases. Likud MK Ariel Sharon Maariv, June 12, 1992 "Every time there is a wave of terrorism, all sorts of 'experts' say that we should unilaterally get out of Gaza. If we do so, the Gaza Strip will become a cancerous thorn of terrorism, 1,000 times more dangerous than it is now. What will we do when katyushas are fired from Biet Yachie on Ashkelon and from Biet Hanoun on Sderot?" Tourism Minister and Moledet Leader MK Rehavam Ze'evi Knesset Minutes, March 1993 You have to tell the citizens of Israel how you plan to prevent terrorist attacks from the Gaza Strip. How will you prevent Katyusha attacks on Ashkelon?" Likud MK Moshe Katsav Jerusalem Post, May 24, 1994 We must take into account that after withdrawal, Ashkelon, a major Israeli city, will be within the effective range of Kassam rockets. In the future, when sea and airports are built in Gaza and we will have no control, they will have Katyushas with a longer range that can also reach Kiryat Gat or southern Ashdod. Major General (Res.) Yakov Amidror Maariv, Feb. 5, 2004 If the Disengagement plan is carried out, Kassam rocket attacks will be the lot of cities from Ashkelon to Ofakim [also inside Israel], and will become a daily occurrence. Yisrael Beiteinu Head, MK Avigdor Lieberman July 5, 2004 After the withdrawal, Kassam rockets will rain on Ashkelon. NRP Head, MK Effie Eitam Kol Israel, Israel Radio Tuesday, June 29, 2004
7. Now from the imbeciles of our political naive Left
Nachman-2   (07.17.06)
Now for the political imbecile left Proven to be wrong (and they ought to be ahamed of themselfs and to all those who demonized the settlers and threw them out of their homes as dogs start thinking who are your real friends and your real enemies) Following is one Joker after another Unfortunately the joke is on us. All you do all day is threaten that there will be Katyusha rockets landing in Ashkelon. Would you mind telling me why there are no rockets fired from Aqaba to Eilat?" Foreign Minister Labor MK Shimon Peres Knesset minutes September 9, 1993 We're familiar with the Likud's horror stories. They promised us Katyushas from Gaza, but Gaza has been under the primary control of the Palestinian Authority for more than a year now, and there hasn't been a single Katyusha. Prime Minister, Labor MK Yitzchak Rabin Jerusalem Post Jun 20, 1995 A particularly favored line is that the Likud's dire predictions of Gaza turning into another Lebanon, with Katyusha rockets hitting Ashkelon, have proved unrealistic and plain silly. Jerusalem Post Editorial Aug 11, 1995 The purpose of the Disengagement Plan is to reduce terror as much as possible, and grant Israeli citizens the maximum level of security...These steps will increase security for the residents of Israel and relieve the pressure on the IDF and security forces in fulfilling the difficult tasks they are faced with. The Disengagement Plan is meant to grant maximum security and minimize friction between Israelis and Palestinians. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon Herzliya Conference December 18, 2003 He should have never turned to politics. What a disaster Before the withdrawal from Lebanon, the Intelligence Directorate also threatened us with Katyushas reaching Hadera and we see what actually happened. I estimate, and my estimate is just as valid as those that threaten us with horrors, that after we leave the Gaza Strip, terrorism will decrease, not increase. Former Mossad Head, Labor MK Dani Yatom Maariv, Feb. 5, 2004 Finally the last two jokers. They should both be trown out of their position for gross imcopitense I anticipate that the level of terrorism will drop after the disengagement and after pragmatic Arab forces take control. Defense Minister, Kadima MK Shaul Mofaz Arutz Sheva Jul 02, 2004 We will find a full answer to the Kassams without crossing lines. IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz Speech at Bar Ilan University Mar 24, 2006 Information taken from Arutz Sheva
8. When they don't believe in G-d, how can they trust..
AB ,   The Rock   (07.17.06)
that only He can help us and that not one of the double crossing 'allies' will stand by us. A Jew who does not believe in G-d consciously knows intinctively his existence is unjustified. Hence the suicidal policies of the Left. The best leaders we've had were all believers and that is no coincidence.
9. AbsolutleTruth
emanon ,   USA   (07.17.06)
Too bad the article, to borrow a phrase from another faith, is preaching to the choir. The real question is how to get the government to reverse it's self destructive course of giving land to terrorists and then having to reclaim the same land. Maybe this current round will make the Israeli leaders realize what they have done in the recent past is wrong. Stop the land giveaway, defend your borders and realize the Arabs concerm with creating another Islamic country is a ruse to wipe out Israel and Judaism.
10. To #3 - Feeling ashamed, guilty? There's hope for you.
11. Of Course.
avi ,   binyamina, Israel   (07.17.06)
Of course the right is focused on the left instead of on Hizbollah, Syria and Iran. It takes attention away from the fact that we have already been here before, watching soldiers return in body bags for 20 years while carrying out the rights ideaology. For 20 years, mothers in Israel stopped to hear the news - was it their son killed. 20 years.
12. 100 % right
13. #3 EDAN-Reality CHeck
Jew for Truth ,   Jerusalem, ISrael   (07.17.06)
You are the problem. The minority of people like you are divided into two groups-the Stupid Left and the Evil Left-those are the only two groups remaining on the side of the left these days.There is only the Radical left these days. Please compare to left of Mappai of 30-40 years ago. Other rational people who were on left moved towards center(likud) or a little right either soon after the resumption of terror attacks after Oslo or certinaly after the HUGE increase in terror attacks starting fall 2000(also known as the Oslo War). The stupid left represent the epitome of naivete and are more messianic than refusing to see facts, on the ground or otherwise...wishing for peace so much that they are willing to ruin national security in order to acheive this "pipe dream". The Evil left are so dogmatic in their identification with the the aggressor/occupier instead of the healthy position of reality that Israel continues to be the victim of aggression(read Stokholm syndrome). Many vicitms would like to be the aggressor or if not then identifiy with him for with him lies the power. After all a copo can sit by and watch his people be devastated ...he'd rather live a few extra days and view it rather than being eaten first. If we sit down to talks now intsead of utterly destorying the enemy then we are forgetting how we got into this in the first place. Also, then we are prolonging our suffering and throwing away more lives in the long run. If this happens, readers, mark my words-We will see this happen again within 2 years maybe even the near or cmplete desolation of ISrael...think about the lives and suffering then that could have been prevented. Let's be truly healthy and sane. Let's stand together and defeat utterly once nad for all the enemy(it would be nice if the Radical Left and the media asked for an apology). P.S. the Terrorist organizations/armies already said that the "disengagement" and the radical left encourage them to kill more and persue until the Jewish state no longer exists on its homeland. (i.e. annihilation of Jews on their land). What the radical left doesn't realize is that an Arab knife or gun will kill them just as easily as a patriot of Israel without any discrimination. May be just maybe they will be the last to die. Do you want to stand for right and justice or be an accomplice of the criminal terrorists?
14. To # 11
Nachman   (07.17.06)
Remember if it werent for the lefties Policies we would not be in this situation. It all started in the six day war would we not have erred then thinking we are the all powerfull and instead recognise that the whole war was miraculous the hand of Almighty was involved in every way we would do what the Torah commands us not to give one iota of land to our adversaries. I still remember the Lubavitcher Rebbe screaming to allow the arabs to go when they were in a state of panic and wanted to leave voluntary.
15. Political Deluders Turned Blind Eyes To Arsenal Amassing
Adina Kutnicki ,   US   (07.17.06)
The morally bankrupt policies of the left wing ruling 'elite' (starting with Aaron Barak, Peres, OLmert, Beilin, et al , the media & the academic far left) are to blame for much of the blood being spilled now. Ever since Oslo was allowed to grip a stranglehold over Israel, the enemy has been allowed ! to amass lethal killing machines. Israel's political criminals did NOTHING to stop this threat. They were too busy demonizing the reviled 'settlers' and scheming all sorts of ways to destroy Jewish nationalism. Now the chickens have come home to roost and the average citizen is paying with their blood. In between demonizing religious zionist, and in between appeasing international antisemites, Israel's supine leaders have brought catastrophe upon its people. Now that their own very lives are in peril, these deluded and also somewhat evil 'elite' will have nowhere to run and hide. When missiles are raining down, ALL heads are on the chopping block. When the dust settles one can only hope that the people will realize what their leaders have done to them. The IDF/IAF should get all the credit for their fighting and sacrifices. But they should also be 're-educated' as to why they are fighting, and to NEVER fight against fellow Jews again, no matter how hard the politicians try to twist their arms!
16. #3 Edan: Hizbollah needs you. Try Beirut instead.
Yakov, Ph.D. ,   Ashkelon   (07.17.06)
More of your leftist idiocy. Time for Israel to conduct a political house cleaning and rid itself of the leftist political hacks who have led us to this disaster since the Oslo fiasco began.
17. Edan makes EVERYONE sick,
wais   (07.17.06)
and he, his antisemitic mentality, and cohorts drove this country into this bloody war. These leftists pushed the country into giving up Gaza, s lebanon and lots of armament to arabs since Rabin to present gov. I would not like to be in his place and have the blood of all these innocent soldiers and israelis in my hands
18. Edan, Say we would have known of a future war with Lebanon
Bush ,   usa   (07.17.06)
It is only one year since we left Gaza, not 15. Are you so stubborn to see the facts. I promise you if Israelis would have known of future outcomes on our soil, not only would disengagement ever happen,we would pay them to live there if they were willing to leave. The govt played you all and you're still to stupid to realize.
19. From Netivot and AGREE WITH EVERY WORD!
Esther ,   Netivot, Israel   (07.17.06)
You are so right! My pupil Ella Abukasis was murdered by a kassam in nearby Sederot; what did all those left-wingers think would be in Sederot after we pulled out? That the situation would improve? As an American Ashkenazi married to an Israeli Sefardi I am sorry to say that I believe the government classifies Sederot as 2nd class because the vast majority of its' citizens are Sefardic , or Russian and Ethiopian immigrants. Had just a single kassam fallen on Ra'anana or Hertzylia, the gov't would not have waited so long to react !!! I have teenage students on tranquilizers; one of my pupil's Mom is in a psychiactric ward; none of my pupils from Sederot could concentrate on last weeks English bagrut exam. (Thank you very much Min.of Ed. that you gave them an extra hour on the exam, but how can a pupil study under such circumstances.) Hence, I agree with every word in this article. We don't enjoy saying "told you so" but we WERE RIGHT!!!!!!
20. #11
nul ,   jerusalem   (07.17.06)
Avi, are you sure you live in Israel? What about bags of civilians bodies collected after Jerusalem explosions? what about our soldiers killed and kidnapped from that very "quiet" Lebanon border? Or should we have closed eye also to this and let them collect weapons for the next 20 years? Or maybe you think all this time they were collectibg it just to give to Israel as a New Year present? Or have I misunderstood you?
21. The Facts of Life
Scott ,   Texas   (07.17.06)
Shlomo gets it....In Texas when confronted by a enemy we attack. When a man murders, we put him to death. We will not tolerate lawlessness and neither should Israel. I stand with the jews in Israel.....
22. Kol Hakavod !
yoel ,   Switzerland   (07.17.06)
23. Enough with the finger-pointing
Yaniv ,   Eilat   (07.17.06)
Partisan politics and finger-pointing at a time like this? Don't you think there will be time for that later? You should be ashamed.
24. TO # 13, 16 ,17
Edan ,   Beer Sheva   (07.17.06)
Why don't you all go worship Yigal Amir,I know thats what you want ...Any one who calls me an antisemite or accuses me of helping the terrorists I challenge them to do so in my face. Here's my email just to show you I mean bussiness. edanh@bgu.ac.il
25. Your analysis is totally correct.
marc j bellm ,   fort bragg   (07.18.06)
After reading Shlomo Engel's view, I must totally agree. As an American, we too are fighting the same immoral insane lunatics as you. I hope that Israel, and the world will see Arab/Islamic lies in the "land for peace" nonsense. I am glad our President and our people are supporting Israel and the Jewish people.
26. Look who wants cohesiveness all of a sudden!
michal ,   US   (07.18.06)
Yes, it's Edan of Beersheva and Avi of Binyamina. Edan talks about "spit[ting] in the face of people like Shlomo Engel and the author of response #1." Not exactly a solidarity exercise, is it Edan? If I give a gun to a known homicidal maniac and this maniac shoots my neighbor, surely I share in the crime. Edan, you still don't get it. And don't think to change the subject by trotting out the old Rabin blood libel or by trying to be a pugnacious cowboy. It's embarassing.
27. #24 EDAN : why r u afraid of public reproach...?
wais   (07.18.06)
...that u need to have us bother with u'r private email? we want you to know that EVERYBODY dislikes your leftist ideas, which are suicidal to this state, btw. So you'll hear more in this forum, not privatelly U'r SO insecure about urself that need to recurr in insults ... go to lebanon, u'r peacefull asses shall rejoice PITY and shame on you and co.
28. neither right nor left
bobba fett ,   eisham, israel   (07.18.06)
the right is wrong when it says disengagement and realignment and the wall are bad. the left is wrong when they say israel should negotiate under fire. the reality is that the center is far, far more calculating than the extremes dare give it credit for. withdrawal gave us the moral and strategic high ground. realignment, and the wall, give us the opportunity to recognize a state called Palestine, and then to lay upon the rights and responsibilities of all sovereign nations. and that also means: once there is a palestinian state, any act of war they lay against israel, may be countered, and the conflict finally ended. the center is much more machiavellan than the fearful "sky is falling" crowds dare to imagine. nasrallah claims he looks forward to an open war with israel. i look forward to the day when israel can not be accused of attacking "occupied" people. i look forward to the day when israel can fight terrorists and not have those terrorists be called "militants" or 'freedom fighters' or any other such clap trap that the media wishes to label them. terrorists are terrorists are terrorists. when we recognize a state called palestine, there will no longer be any way for reasonable analysts to call hamas or hizbollah terrorists any other name. and our response to destroy them will be justified, not just in our eyes, but in the eyes of the world upon which we are supposed to shed light. i look forward to the day israel can destroy any element bent on its destruction. i look forward to the day after, when israel will live in peace and prosperity, alongside other peaceful, freedom loving nations. may we all know peace in our times.
29. Syria, Hizbollah, Hamas, wateva are boosting,
John ,   NZ   (07.18.06)
and raving becos their big brother Iran is going to have nuclear weapons soon or maybe already. Israel has taken the bait to fight with them. I strongly suggest Israel and Americans cripple the Iranian nuclear programme and the rest would keep quiet. The EU, UN are waiting for US n Israel to do this job, just that they are too chicken to say it out
30. Shlomo, you are 100% right
Jenny   (07.18.06)
but the imbeciles like Peres who initiated the appeasement techniques and Olso disaster have never come forward to admit their error. If they would apologize and admit their mistakes then MAYBE we would forgive them. But their arrogance and denial have made us all sick. We have allowed the leftists to determine our security and now we are paying for it dearly.
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