Opinion  Sever Plocker
Israel no longer civilized
Sever Plocker
Published: 03.01.07, 10:59
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41 Talkbacks for this article
1. Cut the dramatic BS
RA   (01.03.07)
Israel is facing an existential threat from Iran, and this moron Plocker is acting as if tax corruption is Israel's biggest problem. Yes I agree its a serious issue, but theres far bigger fish to fry.
2. The Author Exaggerates
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (01.03.07)
At the end of the day, we will all still have to pay outrageous taxes. Wake up people! Whereas normal taxes are used by governments to control their populations, outrageous taxes oppress.
3. "PM not involved in tax fraud affair ..."
Donny ,   Metulla   (01.03.07)
"PM not involved in tax fraud affair ..." Ha ha ha. If it weren't so tragic, I would die laughing!
4. "populist, fascist and Bolshevik " ... they have better !
avi   (01.03.07)
an idiotic people ready to eat their democratic lies potage daily... why changing such an achievement ? no G.od, no Law, no Mercy. Well learned, well established. Go back to your Mercedes / Movies / Money dreams 'good' people, nothing to see there 'up'.
5. fallacies;
yaakov ,   Jerusalem   (01.03.07)
This article as most articles written about the corruption inherent in our "democratic" system does not address reality. We live not in a so called democratic system but a oligarchy run by a small % of families who control the political, economic and mass media system using democracy as a drug to weaken israeli citizens senses to real issues, only emphasizing superficial- non-relevant instances Why was hirschson appointed finance minster by the clown instead of labor... duh... because the oligarchs wanted their hands on the MONEY. This latest scandal is only a side issue to deflect the public by the controlled media away from the real objective.... shrinking eretz yisrael to non-defensive borders and giving the biblical heartland to our enemies Ask yourself this question, if the going gets tuff, do you or I have a private jet to whisk us away to america, europe or some island of spain where all our stolen cash revenues are?..........URI...URI
Bruno ,   austr/tel aviv   (01.03.07)
7. Tax Evasion
Maurice_C ,   Ireland   (01.03.07)
Why are you disgusted it has already become the norm in Israel. You don't like someone or they impose certain things upon you - you just have to throw a granade at their home or car. You can also shoot at them or their homes. Steal and you become famous or get your own radio program. Children joining satanist movements, driving cars under the influence with or witout licences and fave your family bail you out. So why worry their are other people in higher places doing worse things. Israel today has become the "wild west show " to brag with pride to our children. Gone are those days when we could of been proud of the small nation that could show the world of it's achievements.
8. seriously, anybody named "Jacky" should not be in the govt
9. Merkaz ha'Likud
Michael ,   Haifa   (01.03.07)
After years of solid groundwork the Merkaz ha'Likud has finally made us a "light unto the nations"
10. Moderation In Language, Please.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (01.03.07)
Don't get carried away. We have not left the civilized world because of a couple of rotten apples in our system. I'll admit that our gov't is not the cleanest in the world. Our political system is pretty crappy & our politicians are self-interested jerks for the most part. But, the very fact that these scandals get investigated, that it's in the news, is pretty good. Many countries cover up everything & no one ever knows. And this includes Europe & America as well. I don't have to go into detail about what goes on in most Arab countries or in Africa. So, please, some moderation in language.
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (01.03.07)
a selfrighteous sucker.I thought it was the goal of our zionist friends to be like other nations.Well they outdid themselves,you only have to drive a car here for a day to see what kind of nasty mean rotten attitude israelis have. And they are proud of it too as long as we can be as goyish as possible we are cool. Comes to money, basicaly everybody screws evereybody and lying is an israeli norm and eccepted way of behavior. So we can slap each other on the back in how we created a totally corrupt society on every level. So much for being a light among nations.But not to worry, the way we are going ,there won"t be an israel much longer. Which might be better because i am to ashamed to call myself israeli.
12. Where is there another democracy
Itzik ,   Haifa   (01.03.07)
"Where is there another democracy". The most corrupt person in Israel is Olmert. Furthermore, if somebody is indicted they will begin talking and Olmert will go to jail. These people are the stars of the Israeli Left who do not serve in IDF and rob us all. They keep the jobs because of one thing: Left wants more money for the wealthy and many more disengagements. And if Olmert is gone there is no one who will force on us corruption and disengagements.
13. Israel is corrupt
John ,   London,Uk   (01.03.07)
Sever Plocker is making some excellent observations. They may be bitter for most Israelis, but nevertheless they are true. Israel is going down. Both morally and militaliry. Hezbollah, according to the BBC, gave Israel a bloody nose in July 2006 war. And now corruption and scandals are bringing ruins on the Israeli society. It seems the jewish state is collapsing from all sides. No wonder Ahmedinejad urges Israelis to start packing their bags and leave very soon. A massive storm is about to hit the nation and israel will be wiped off the map. Iran is not kidding. They need any excuse to start a war with Israel. They know Israel is at the moment very weak. Weakness that the whole world witnessed when it could not even stop Nasrallah firing thousands of missles on Israeli cities. Lets face it. Israeli dream is over. the idea of the Jewish homeland has been killed not by outsiders, but incompitant and immoral Israel leaders which are blindly elected time and again by desperate Israeli public. It is the people who chose their leaders. And if they chose evil leaders, everyone pays the price. Israel has become an oppresive and evil state. No righteous person can have love for it.
14. to # 13
tom h   (01.03.07)
with a heavy heart I have to agree with you on the corruption issue . I hope sincerely that a higher power internvenes and cleans the morass. I cannot and will not believe that Israel is finished despite all its setbacks.
15. Time for electoral reform
JPS ,   Efrat   (01.03.07)
It's time to lower the level of pork-barreling in Israel. The electoral system has to be changed to direct election of MKs, so that each one can be turfed out unless s/he is re-elected by the voters. The list system doesn't work. What we have is a competition between the parties where the pigs line up at the public trough and see how much money they can take for themselves - not how much better they can make society. We can thank the Tzahi Hanegbis and others of his flavor for helping bring this to light - his purpose seems to have been not to take whatver ministry he had and make sure it fulfilled the election platforms and improved Israel at large, but rather to appoint as many cronies as possible to cushy government jobs. You see these people from time to time at various ministries...people in offices with the same job title on their door as the person down the hall, but with no files on their desk, talking incessantly on the phone, and you wonder what the heck they do there all day, if anything. The rot runs deep from right to left, from secular to ultra-orthodox....pigs at the trough one and all. Time to change the system and tighten the laws, so that those choose to steal my hard-earned tax money can watch wide-screen tv.... in jail.
16. to 13 and 14
Josh ,   Canada   (01.03.07)
While I agree that many of Israel's problems are internally based such as this tax issue and other social issues. I think that you need to remember one thing. Israel has the capabilities to win a war. Fighting Hizbullah over the summer was a slightly different type of war than in the past. But firstly, you overlook the damage Hizbuallah took. Secondly, Israel did not show off any of its true capabilities during the war, there is a reason why so many other nations look to buy from Israeli firms for certain military equipment, they are just about the best at creating it. I feel that while the governement has not fulfilled its duty to protect the country the way it should for the past little while, when push comes to shove, Israel can and will be able to pack a seriously heavy blow to future aggressors against it including Iran if needs be.
17. Joker
Ron ,   LA   (01.03.07)
18. Israel is no longer civilized?
David hersh ,   Toronto Canada   (01.03.07)
Interesting that the warning issued before we can post a 'talkback' is as follows: "Comments containing incitement, slander, racist slurs and inappropriate language deemed to violate our terms of use won't be published." Perhaps they should follow their own set of rules. What garbage this guy writes. Just looking at his past columns...it is obvious that he is as obsessed as the U.N. with a tiny little state that fights for it's life every day, while ignoring events that make their obsessions seem as silly as they are. SHAME SHAME SHAME!
19. I gave up on Israel. I feel bad for Herzel.
efi g ,   washington dc   (01.03.07)
Israel seems to be on an alltime low. Israel needs to clean up its act. There are problems from within. Not just the Palestinian issue. 3rd world conditions.
20. #13 John or Ayatollah Adolf?
Raphael ,   Paris   (01.03.07)
No western democracy is immune from corruption. Our beloved leader Chirac is quoted as France's first thief, being involved in a string of bribery scandals for decades: please read "Chirac d'Arabie". So don't spit on democracy: it is the worst political system, except all the others.
21. corruption
ami ,   israel   (01.03.07)
sad to read ore watch tv.to see who is leading us who is making the rules for us, are undergoing investigation the coruption is like a cancer wich we the peopel should tear out from our sociaty
22. tax scandal
usa fan ,   jerusalem   (01.03.07)
..we imported atop man to run the Bank of Israel. Let us import a clean dozen to reform our tax offices and officers.
23. America's paying for Israel, who needs taxes ?!
Obama Bum Lala   (01.04.07)
Israel can allow itself all kinds of irresponsible adventures, like waging wars, building fences and illegal settlements, or any other thing they might find cool. Uncle Sam is paying ! And you american readers should feel more collective responsibility for how your gov't is using you for no economic or srategic reason and demand more constructive steps from Israel!
24. Corruption happens in any country
john ,   nz   (01.04.07)
in lesser or greater extent. To use the word uncivilised is inappropriate. That word belongs to Israel's neighbors.
25. Something is rotten in realm of Israel
Marcel Abel ,   France   (01.04.07)
the same in France as well but true democracies have not been surpassed. You have not some Montesquieu or some philosopher of the Enlightenment ? Yes, you have !
26. Evil, slanderous John
Jake   (01.04.07)
I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies the things you just said about us. Malevolent envy is the best way to describe your atrocious , wicked post. It what you know about yourself inside that makes you post such drivel. You are weak. You are impotent. And you have found a convenient scapegoat. Get lost, and we would not wish you back again, malicious creature.
27. You think your tax system and government are corrupt?
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage, Alaska   (01.04.07)
Come to the United States and check out our system. Go on yahoo.com and search ( Debt to the Penny). It's the United States Treasury website. At the bottom of the website there is the history of the debt for the entire history of the United States. In two months they have spent 80 billion dollars (320 billion shekels). Clinton told the world we had a surplus of money, that he was paying the debt down. He lied! Bush is saying he is going to cut the debt in half. He is lying! You think you have corruption? You aren't anywhere near the United States corruption. The last time we paid the debt down was in 1960. The worst part of this little scenario, is that people are buying our bonds and debt. Little do they know, that the money they will be payed back eventually, will be worthless. Not only does the United States screw it's own retirement recipients, it is also is selling foreign investors a bill of goods. When the dollar goes....I'd be heavilly invested in assets like gold and platinum. Check out the website if you don't believe it. Why would all these Presidents lie about surpluses, and stealth payments to bring down the debt, if they didn't know the dollar will eventually be in free fall? The coming currency nightmare. Maybe one of these reporters should do some investigating, and find out the ramifications for Israel if the dollar implodes because of unpaid credit card bills from the United States. Money only flows down the river when it is monitored by people who have a semblance of fiduciary responsibility. When you print money like it is going out of sight, it's just paper floating down the river. If you dry it out, it's good to start a fire.
28. The Gaza Disengagment = Sharon sold us out
Rachel   (01.04.07)
Now it is more than obvious why Arik Sharon, the builder of the settlements, the defender of Yesha, was convinced by his corrupt sons and colleagues to sell his principles and sell us down the river with such an ill-advised plan as the disengagment from Gaza. Money = power and in order to stay in power they gave away our military and financial assets in the Gaza Strip in order to please the Leftist oligarchy ruling Israel's economy.
29. Democracy invites corruption
Rachel   (01.04.07)
There is no one good system of rule simply because man is inherently evil and corrupt. The only advantage that democracy has over other systems is that it allows more competition between corrupt individuals and parties instead of concentrating corruption and abuse of power in one party (communism) or one person (monarchy).
30. corruption
Birdi ,   Israel   (01.04.07)
It is about time that corruption by officials in this country is brought to light. Civilized or not, the question is will the ones in custody at present, be punished appropriately ?? & how can corruption be stopped altogether.
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