Opinion
Ramallah isn't Warsaw
Eldad Beck
Published: 08.03.07, 14:17
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
68 Talkbacks for this article
31. Michael Steiner, are you a fruitcake!!!
Doc Holliday ,   at Hollywood, FLA   (03.08.07)
Did you not understand the article. Your intentionally simplistic reading is offensive. Tell us what the Jewish people did in Europe to be singled out for extermination. The ghetto was just a place to hold them until they could be killed at the camps. Since you are now blaming the Jews for Germany's treatment in WW2 by implication. Dude, the Pals live in far from ideal conditions but it is self-inflicted. Wow, they turn down a 2 state solution in 1947 begin killing civilians in every evil way and poor you think they are not treated right. Hey kiss my as-!!! YOU PUNK it's OK CORRAL TIME, YOU GUTLESS WIMP!!!!. There now I feel better, had to get that off my chest. There is a old saying " Don't Piss Down My Back And Tell Me It's Raining " with love to a Jerk
32. Wrong daniel, nobody in Germany is that ignorant
AK   (03.08.07)
I saw prof. Jan Karski on television, a few years back. He was the Polish underground courier who was actually smuggled into the ghetto and afterwards to the West where he gave an eyewitness accounts to Churchill and Roosevelt. He vividly described dead bodies on the streets of Warsaw Ghetto—bodies of man, women and children starved to death. What happened in Warsaw Ghetto is no secret, no rumor; it is a well documented fact by Jews and gentiles alike, including Germans. There is no excuse for any German to claim lack of specific knowledge. Those bishops are not some uneducated teens or naïve brainwashed coeds – they are a middle-aged, well educated elite of the German Church. The only possible explanation for their attitude is that as Germans they wish to project their country’s crimes into the homeland of the Jews, while trivializing German crimes against the Jews at the same time.
33. Jasmin, you are being obscene.
AK   (03.08.07)
34. #25 - Sigfried - A secret deal?
Tracy W   (03.08.07)
Very good point, Sigfried. You write: "Could it be that the Palestinian Authority agreed to lessen the persecution of Christian Arabs in return for the Bishop's criticism of Israel?" Unfortunately that is the way the world works. That's politics. And the church, in spite of all its claims, has always been guided by politics and self-interest, not higher principles. I hope a reporter follows up on your suggestion. There might be something there.
35. for jasmin number 8, a small note
innominate ,   los angeles   (03.08.07)
dear jasmin, i do not know where are from, but your comments remind me of my own thinking twenty years ago when i was in university ( in iran)and thinking all people are same and all the religions are respectable! well that is not the case, specially if you are living far away from the actual scene. if you want to have a glimpse of what is happening today in middle east maybe the most conveninet way to go on www.faithfreedom.org and read and of course contemplate for a while
36. #8 - Jasmin. - The children
Tracy W   (03.08.07)
Why so many children casualties? Would the fact that they are put deliberately in harm's way have anything to do with it? Like the fact that they are used as human shields, along with their mothers, by all factions in the PA? That they are sent to infiltrate the border? That they are encouraged to provoke the IDF? That the terrorists use private homes full of children to store weapons and as bases for attacks on Israel, knowing that Israel will have to shoot back? How many of those children have been victims of Arab infighting? How many victims of Arab retaliation on other Arabs?
37. #35:
Michael Steiner   (03.08.07)
So, um, which exactly part of what Jasmin do you dispute? Everything she stated stands.
38. not anti-semitism to point out abuses
RJ ,   Canada   (03.09.07)
It's not anti-semitism, Eldad Beck. The Bishops were horrified at what they saw when they visited the Palestinian Territories after being to the Holocaust Museum and made a logical comparison between the concentration camps and the apartheid-like prison where the Palestinians in the Occupied Territories live. It would also be disappointing and even shocking to see how the former victims of an evil beyond comprehension would now themselves become such brutal abusers of another people. The Bishops, like me, probably ask themselves, how can the Israelis stand by and let it happen? Does fear blind the Jews to what is happening? Is the Israeli PR machine so powerful as to brainwash most Jews? OR ??? I don't understand. But then I don't understand how the nice American people have governments which commit atrocities across the world, how they elected Bush. On the other hand, it is Israel who trained the US military in urban combat and taught them the techniques for occupying a country. And look what's happening in Iraq... an occupation of another people equally as vile as Israel's occupation of Palestine!
39. Why do you bother to answer Steiner's posts
Kate ,   USA   (03.09.07)
Just ignore him. We all know that he loves to provoke a response. He didn't get much attention as a child, the poor thing.
40. Superfical, hateful and simply wrong
Ilan ,   Ariel   (03.09.07)
So because Israel has military control over Nablus it equates to a concentration camp? And we are supposed to take this as something to think about? I guess the US has turned Bagdad into Aushwitz, and NATO has turned Yugoslavia into Bergen-Belsen. I can understand how Steiner could confuse empathy with the Germans in regards to hatred of Jews with expertise with Nazism. The pretense of being a human being is hard for him to maintain, but intelligent people? No question, this comparison has zero legitimacy.
41. CAN NOT ALWAYS HIDE BEHIND ANTI-SEMITISM
Ahmed ,   Haifa Palestine   (03.09.07)
You israeli are blind to your injustice and occupation. You have become a monster with no eyes, with no morals, accusing everyone of anti-semitism when you are warned that you are creating a mini holocaust or creating an apartheid. Wake my friends as Israel has become one of the worst nation in terms of respect of Palestinian human rights and a terrible occupier. YOu have lost your superior morality but you are the last one to know it....
42. With Israel actions, Jews have lost their superior morality
Ahmed ,   Haifa Palestine   (03.09.07)
BUt they do not see it yet as the whole world does. The holocaust is a terrible terrible crime. BUt you are doing is also a Crime and you chose the adjective to descibe it.
43. Why the @!!&%^%! do we let these people visit Yad Vashem?
daniel ,   holland   (03.09.07)
44. NOT NAZISM - IT IS ZIONISM
Futura ,   Europe   (03.09.07)
Israel i absolutely NOT a nazi nation. Nothing that goes on in Israel or occupied territories can be compared to the nazis. IDF training in arab villages without telling it in advance to the arabs (todays news), IDF using a 11 year old girl as human shield (todays news) is two fresh examples of zionism. Opression, violence, arrogance, threats - it is about getting the arabs out of "Land of Israel" (not killing them as nazis), it has allways been the ultimate goal.
45. to NO 35 innominate
Jasmin   (03.09.07)
Honey, i know what iam talking about. unlike most of you here, i lived in the occupied palestinian territorries for a long time, i witnessed everything iam talking about. it is hard to describe it in words even! iam not impressed by anybody's propaganda
46. to IIan, Ariel NO 22
Jasmin   (03.09.07)
I totally understand that israel has to protect itself against attacks by reinforcing security over borders. but my dear, and since u r in Ariel which i know well, u sure understand that a palestinian who is from tulkarm who studies in nablus does represent a threat to isreal! so that why the cities are cut from each other by 3 checkpoints- which is an underestimation!! ans same applies to small pals villigaes which are totally cut from each other. YOU know residents of Jbara in tulkarm, which is a very tiny village, are obliged to make certain permits!! and so one.. this is just to tell you that israel is enforcing a group punishmet, and this frustration and oppression will eventually produce anger, hatred and much more...
47. No one likes check points
Ilan ,   Ariel   (03.09.07)
I know that there are checkpoints and I realize that good people suffer from them, but if the alternative to that are other good people being killed by suicide bombers then that is a price to accept. The question is really how to minimize the need for checkpoints and security. Every day there are threats of bombs being made ready. Most of these threats are stopped before anyone is hurt, but that takes the IDF being within the villages and a restriction of movement. I'm not asking for your approval in this, but while I see your point of view I can't see how the IDF needs will change without a change on the Palestinian side. I wish that things were better for us all.
48. The Church hates its own diety!
Roni Moura ,   Rhode Island, USA   (03.09.07)
You're right on the money Mark! Let me add that Christians don't understand the roots of their own religion. They Just act like they know at all by relying on NT (new testment) but Jesus himself taught the scriptures (Torah) not NT.
49. Ignorance everywhere I look at!
Michael ,   Germany   (03.09.07)
First of all, I shall emphasize that I don't agree with the bishop's words. His comparison is more than fare-fetched. His intentions are unclear to me though. Regarding Igor's source: it's back from 86 where a lot more (former) nazi supporters lived. Questionaires are very sensitive towards timing and framing. Nevermind, there is definitely a lot hatred in this world - in Germany against Jews, Turks, Colored people, in Israel against Arabs and vice versa. Regarding the load of Americans slamming Germany: hey guys, ever been to Germany? Would be suprised if at least one of you ignorant people was there.
50. JEW-HATERS HYPOCRITES Bishops Despise PA Christians
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (03.09.07)
Bethlehem CHRISTIANS FEAR MUSLIM Land Thieves/Assaulters STOP Islam's Persecution! Take Bethlehem and other Christian Towns Inside the Green Line Now! The JERUSALEM POST Jan. 25, 2007 Bethlehem Christians fear neighbors By KHALED ABU TOAMEH BETHLEHEM A number of Christian families have finally decided to break their silence and talk openly about what they describe as Muslim persecution of the Christian minority in this city. The move comes as a result of increased attacks on Christians by Muslims over the past few months. The families said they wrote letters to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the Vatican, Church leaders and European governments complaining about the attacks, but their appeals have fallen on deaf ears. According to the families, many Christians have long been afraid to complain in public about the campaign of "intimidation" for fear of retaliation by their Muslim neighbors and being branded "collaborators" with Israel... "The situation is very dangerous," said Samir Qumsiyeh, owner of the Beit Sahur-based private Al-Mahd (Nativity) TV station. "I believe that 15 years from now there will be no Christians left in Bethlehem... Qumsiyeh, one of the few Christians willing to speak about the harsh conditions of their community, has been the subject of numerous death threats. His house was recently attacked with fire-bombs, but no one was hurt. Qumsiyeh said he has documented more than 160 incidents of attacks on Christians in the area in recent years. He said a monk was recently roughed up for trying to prevent a group of Muslim men from seizing lands owned by Christians in Beit Sahur. Thieves have targeted the homes of many Christian families and a "land mafia" has succeeded in laying its hands on vast areas of land belonging to Christians, he added. Fuad and Georgette Lama woke up one morning last September to discover that Muslims from a nearby village had fenced off their family's six-dunam plot in the Karkafa suburb south of Bethlehem. "A lawyer and an official with the Palestinian Authority just came and took our land," said 69-year-old Georgette Lama. The couple was later approached by senior PA security officers who offered to help them kick out the intruders from the land. "We paid them $1,000 so they could help us regain our land," she said, almost in tears. "Instead of giving us back our land, they simply decided to keep it for themselves. They even destroyed all the olive trees and divided the land into small plots, apparently so that they could offer each for sale." When her 72-year-old husband, Fuad, went to the land to ask the intruders to leave, he was severely beaten and threatened with guns. "My husband is after heart surgery and they still beat him," Georgette Lama said. "These people have no heart. We're afraid to go to our land because they will shoot at us. Ever since the beating, my husband is in a state of trauma and has difficulties talking."... www.jpost.com
51. #42, Why don't you admit the truth
Cynic ,   USA   (03.09.07)
You thank your lucky stars that you live in Israel, as opposed to all the neighboring arab countries who have no clue about democracy and human rights
52. How about appropriating church property?
Vitaliy, Esq. ,   NY, NY   (03.09.07)
make it easy for the Pope. he wants a resolution? take away all of church's property aside from the churches themselves... i'm sure he'll be happy to visit afterwards.
53. #30- exceedingly good advice, Judy
Cameron ,   USA   (03.09.07)
54. Israel has no right to lecture anyone
Grif ,   San Francisco   (03.10.07)
The Zionists openly collaborated with the Third Reich from 1933 to 1939 and during the war as well. They sabotaged the anti-Nazi boycott, sold out their fellow Jews, and shopped resistance groups to the Gestapo, and worse. What they are doing to the Palestinians has no connection to security, but is the ugly face of ethnic cleansing. The only difference with Warsaw is that world opinion stops them from doing the same.
55. No, It's Soweto
JRS ,   USA   (03.10.07)
56. To 30 Judy from LA
Jew ,   Israel   (03.10.07)
So, becasue the world does not love Israel (which is a funny claim), Israel should do whatever it wants whenever it wants? even when it is unethical? If I remember right, our Judaism was about being light to all nations and about Tikon Olam and not just about a state that is doing ethical cleansing to Palestinians. How can the same people who led civil rights in America careless about civil rights in Israel? Maybe next time you come "if you care enought to do so and not just live in the US telling Israeli's to sarefice" visit the westbank and see for yourseld.
57. To Ilan
Jew ,   Israel   (03.10.07)
the problem is not the IDF or the checkpoints. The problem is with the state policy that works to ethically cleanse this place from any none Jews. not only Palestinians, but even Druze, Beduins who get none of the rights they should as Israeli's. Israel is a great place if you Jewish, but miserable if you are not, even if you served in the IDF. the threats and security are only an excuse, you know that. there is no reason to divide Pal-villages from each other. I understand checkpoints that divide Israel from the West bank but not within the West bank.
58. what really should be compared to the holocaust
jack ,   ny usa   (03.10.07)
israel is in a constant fight for survival they are always trying to make peace as for their enemys all they want is to blow themselves up to destroy israel israel is trying its best to treat them humanely although nothing of the sort can be said about their enemys in the teritorries they preach in all the schools 24/7 the total destruction of israel why don't the other arab countries with all the land they have which is a few hundred times more than the tiny land of israel why don't they take in some of the palistinians who are allegedly suffering under the israelis the answer is all these arab countries are very happy with the fact that these palistinians are there so they can keep on trying to destroy israel if something is to be compared to the holocaust it should be the arab enmity towards israel israels enemys wouldn't think twice if they had the power to destroy the entire country
59. to 58
Jew ,   Israel   (03.10.07)
your answer reminds of 1939... that's what is similar? from NYC we appreciate it if you stay silent since you haven't the guts to even live in Israel.
60. Church should worry about its own behavour towards Children
Chuck ,   USA   (03.10.07)
before condemning Israel
Previous talkbacks
Next talkbacks
Back to article