Dear Justine, Just ignore the #59, it doesn't deserve any attention.

What the Holocaust Memorial Museum commemorates is the honoring of the Righteous Gentiles. These were Christian individuals from all over Europe who were honored for saving Jewish lives. Among them you may find the names of a fraction of one per cent of the then population in Poland. You cannot fool anyone with your "psuedo rhetoric". The lady doth protest too much.

Dear David, Why doesn't the fate of Jewish children beaten by Polish mobs deserve your or Justine's attention? Because it's a fabrication? Because there were no living witnesses to it? Are you in fashionable denial or are you playing some kind of obscene intellectual exercise? I sincerely hope that neither of you are Jewish, but if you are you won't be the first. Folks like you used to be called Kappos. At the risk of further offending your liberal American sensibilities, let me tell you the story about sick, tubercular children who were taken out of a makeshift "hospital" in the Warsaw ghetto by Polish nurses and drivers. They were to be taken to a Polish orphanage. Living witnesses saw one child after another thrown one on top of the other into trucks. Do you want to ignore where these children were really taken? The Polish general population made the Nazis' work relatively quick and easy. You can ignore and deny as much as you want, but the truth speaks out from beyond the grave for anyone who wants to find it.

« Why doesn't the fate of Jewish children beaten by Polish mobs deserve your or Justine's attention? » Because even if the story is based on real events, the way you are trying to use it is wrong. It’s like recounting some gruesome instance of race-related violence in the US to "prove" that all white Americans are nothing else than "mobs" of murderous racists. And it has little relevance to what I was talking about. When I was a child, in my village, many Poles came from the East and told dreadful things about the massacres in the Volhynia region where Ukrainian UPA units (and some locals) killed some 80 thousands Poles. (This antagonism is more of a two-way thing but they have outdone us this time) Many had nothing but hatred and contempt for Ukrainians. Their bitterness was understandable but some of them were using this experience as a weapon. It wasn’t really about mourning the victims it was more about proving that "all Ukrainians are evil", venting their anger, winning the propaganda war and teaching the next generation to despise Ukrainians. So I grew wary of their generalizations and conclusions. Stories of victims can be used to questionable ends and you should make sure you avoid it. As for the Holocaust Memorial Museum, it’s obvious to me that you have not visited it recently and don’t know what I am talking about. And you seem to confuse it with Yad Vashem. But what they have done really impressed me and helped to relate to Jewish victims in turn. I found a copy of their pamphlet online, and you may find it very useful. It also speaks about children: http://www.holocaust-trc.org/poles.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irena_Sendler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BBegota http://www.zegota.org/ http://fzp.jewish.org.pl/nobel_eng.html http://www.irenasendler.org/default.asp http://www.auschwitz.dk/Sendler.htm I don't know how old you are or what is your personal experience about that terrible time but my family survived holocaust with the help from Polish Christians and we are grateful for this. They risked their own lives to save us. Do you know any Jew who would risk own life to save Pole?

David, the question is somewhat absurd. you are asking a question that had nothing to do with reality.Two days ago an Israeli Romanian Holocaust Survivor gave up his LIFE to save students and were they Jewish????Yes, I think Jews would plus I have never seen the Jewish nation try to commit genocide against another. Did you????Any why do you think ALL Jews are alike?Are they ALL cowards or heroes?Amazing how you automatically implied that ALL Jews-not one would risk his life for a Pole.I think the Professor is a good example of my point.Boy does your prejudice come out in flying colors.

In this race to linkomania that the two of you seem to feel necessary to provide, allow me to close with the following quotation: "The truth is that in terms of its bestiality, hatred and willing persecution against Jews, Poland was very close to the Nazi's regime and the association of Poland with the direct and willful participation in the Nazi's Holocaust is beyond dispute." isurvived.org/polands_past.html Holocaust Remembrance Network

That was a very remarkable quote and very sad.Yes, I applaud the righteous Poles-no hesitation.But if only there had been thousands more.....! The notion that Jews would not have done it for Poles is a strange question considering how much Jews have worked for others' struggles and given their lives.

Wow ! After reading the article and all the above comments I came to the conclusion that you are a quite dangerous individual. The Holocaust was possible because of blind hate and you hate blindly without even considering other side arguments. Arguments that look much more convincing that yours. Greetings to all from Spain.

Well, I see our little discussion is going nowhere. And you are obviously new to the habit of referencing your opinions since you don't even give a correct link. The quote is nonsense. It's not because somebody writes something that it is "beyond dispute". There are few things beyond dispute in social science and history and there is a lot of debate and controversy on this particular topic. And sources have to be reputable. I quote materials published by major institutions devoted to Holocaust studies, major newspapers or historians, not just some guy out there. You quoted isurvive. Do you know what this site is? Its only purpose is to provide links to materials on Holocaust published by others. No original content, just links (and BTW the site is badly designed and badly organized). The only original touch is a few articles written by a certain KK Brattman, the "managing editor". And the quote you provided comes FROM HIM. And who is KK Brattman? Some guy. Neither researcher nor historian and according to this site: (that's the last link I will give you) http://www.israelim.com/tilove.htm he is a rather shady figure involved in vicious slanders on Jewish survivors and sex assaults. I don't know what it is all about, but next time when you want a quote try to find something that looks more serious.

Thank You for your comment !

I think what David meant is that giving one own's life for somebody else is a rare and heroic act. It's not a common attitude. Of course there were Jews who displayed enormous courage during war. Janusz Korczak went to die with the children from his orphanage though he was so well known and had so many Polish friends that he could have saved himself. They offered to help him, but he refused to abandon the children. Countless stories of this kind probably remained anonymous. I remember one about a beautiful Jewish girl who was brought to a camp where the Germans wanted to use her as a prostitute, which would probably helped her to survive. She spit in the SS-man's face, and was sent to gas chambers right away. Tens of thousands Jews fought in different allied armies, including the Polish army. In Polish military cemeteries, for example at Monte Cassino in Italy, you can find many graves with David's stars. And the Ghetto uprising was the first uprising of this kind in occupied Europe. It's just that not everybody is a hero . People who can willingly expose themselves to death are probably in minority (which does not mean that the others are not decent people). Brandeis blames Poles for inaction, but he forgets that any effective aid to Jews in this place and time meant exposing oneself to mortal danger. Heroism is a beautiful thing, but you cannot require from people to be heroes. I liked your comment about Jewish people being different. Please remember that it was the same for us. Probably most of us are/were average - neither heroes nor thugs.

Fair enough-most people are not heroes.I do understand that. I know that the pope before this one had some sort of relationship with a Jewish woman-tried to save her? Do you know the facts about that?What is your opinion about the Catholic Church-?

Please follow this link for some wonderful story about Polish kids taking care of Jewish cementary in Poland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO9Xujf4T-o

this was indeed a very touching little film- where did it come from?do you know if this is happening in other parts of Poland or were most destroyed?

Hello Debbie, Hundreds Jewish cemeteries in Poland are still devastated. There is a lot of effort going on in Poland to restore them but they need funding. Here is the petition to the German government requesting help. Perhaps you or other readers are interested in signing it? http://www.petitiononline.com/1200des/petition.html

Hello Debbie, Here is some more clips about one remarkable Polish woman, Irena Sendler. I have learned that there were thousands brave people like her who remain anonymous or have died together with their Jewish friends. This war was terrible and we have to do everything we can to educate young people so this will never happen again. http://irenasendlerfilm.com/clips.htm

I don’t know the details about the pope story. I think Vatican did a lot in last few decades to combat anti-Semitism within its ranks but it takes time to educate people and some Catholics still don’t get the message. I can’t talk in general, but in Poland there is a lot of variance. There is one catholic radio, called Radio Maryja that has spread many anti-Semitic messages over past few years. It appeals to some 5%-10% of Poles, and many of its supporters are very devoted to it. On the other hand some 3/4 Poles never listen to it and at least half have a negative view of it. But all this is more politics. This radio has marginal or radical views on plenty of issues, it attracts older/less educated people who are dissatisfied with politics and the economy and its anti-Semitism is also mainly political - “Jews killed Christ” does not work anymore. But I think the Church should have done much more to discipline this radio and father Jankowski, another well known anti-Semite. Among the bishops some are very friendly towards Jews, and some others are close to Radio Maryja. But in 2001, all the bishops held a service in memory of Jedwabne (the village where Poles killed Jews) and condemned this massacre and other acts of anti-Semitism. In my Polish catholic parish in Canada I have never heard anything anti-Semitic from priests and several times I heard them quoting rabbis in a positive way during sermons. Once I assisted in a meeting of young Polish Catholics and the priest taught us to sing and dance a Jewish song, I think it was Shalom Aleichem :) And most church-going people in Poland (60%) agree with the statement "Jews are our older brothers in faith” which means that they are aware of links that exist between Christianity and Judaism. So there is much improvement and you can be sure to find many Catholics who are friendly towards Jews, but there is still much to be done because past animosities still linger here and there.

I appreciate your honesty, insights and information. Did you study the Holocaust in depth in relation to Poland?

ok- so we know the Jewish community had a long history of coexistence-what happened? How did the virulent form of animosity evolve? I am very interested in understanding this.i thought Christ was the big factor(something like Mel Gibson and his dad)but what else?I had a patient who was a priest and he had an exceptional knowledge of judaism and i asked how come no one else but him knows so much!He said the average Catholic learns "catechism"and doesn't know the Bible even.he said that has been the greatest deficiency in the Church is lack of knowledge.he knew so much including Hebrew-I was stunned.And his background was Yugoslavian,believe it or not.

Thanks. I read about the Holocaust and I followed the debate over Jedwabne, but I wouldn't say I studied it in depth, it's a huge topic. I'm very interested in current Polish-Jewish issues though and that's why I try to keep track of data and information. Are you asking about the Holocaust as it was organized by the Germans, or about cases of virulent animosity from Poles?